00:08

Welcome to The Kosher Terroir.

00:11

I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem.

00:15

Before we get started, no matter where you are, please take a moment to pray for the safe return home of all our soldiers.

00:25

If you're driving in your car, please focus on the road ahead.

00:29

If you're relaxing at home, please pour yourself a glass of wonderful kosher wine.

00:35

Sit back, relax, and enjoy

00:39

What does it take to bring a corner of the wine world to someone who keeps kosher?

00:46

It begins long before the bottle reaches the table with a discovery

00:51

a conversation, and sometimes a winemaker who has never considered making kosher wine.

00:58

Welcome to The Kosher Terroir.

01:00

I'm your host, Simon Jacob.

01:02

Today I'm joined by Ari Gotthelf.

01:05

Whose work in wine production, importing, and winery consulting gives him a fascinating perspective on the global kosher wine landscape.

01:16

From Portugal and France to South Africa and New Zealand, his work opens doors to places, grapes, and styles that many kosher wine lovers have yet to experience

01:29

But how do you decide which wine deserves that opportunity?

01:34

How do you persuade a winery to take the leap

01:37

And when you create a wine for the kosher consumer, how do you preserve the character of the place while finding an audience willing to try something unfamiliar?

01:49

We'll explore the discoveries, the difficult decisions, and the things that can go wrong between an exciting first tasting and a finished bottle

01:59

We'll also follow the money.

02:01

Look beyond the label and ask Ari which overlooked wines deserve a place at your table.

02:08

Pour yourself something you're curious about, and join us.

02:13

Ari, welcome to The Kosher Terroir.

02:15

First of all, do me a favor.

02:17

Tell me how you pronounce your last name.

02:19

Oh

02:20

Uh so there's a really easy way to remember it.

02:23

It's the meaning of it in German, which my family comes from, is “God help.”

02:29

So it's Gott-helf.

02:30

Gotthelf.

02:31

Okay.

02:32

It's a great name.

02:33

Yeah.

02:33

It's an absolutely great name.

02:34

So I just I I I just didn't want to get it wrong.

02:38

Take us back to the bottle that changed your life.

02:41

What

02:43

Did you taste that made wine more than something for Kiddush for you?

02:48

Oh well.

02:50

Great question.

02:52

So I actually grew up in a family, not my parents, but my uncles and my grandfather that always appreciated wine

03:01

Which means thirty years ago my grandfather had a wine fridge in his house and my uncles used to always get some interesting and cool bottles.

03:09

So I understood the culture of it and when I was six or seven I already I collected empty bottles of wine, which I still have some of that collection.

03:18

just because I got I was I was curious and I knew there's value value in wine, other than — rather than other beverages.

03:26

Um

03:28

So I've been I've been drinking — but just enjoying wine and and being maybe above the average kid my age.

03:36

Then I I I always — I always say that like God

03:40

led me into this industry because it was never just like my dream to get into it.

03:44

It was a hobby and I loved it.

03:46

And when I came back from — after a while I was living living in the US.

03:50

So someone just asked me if I wanted to start working Fridays and pouring wines in stores.

03:56

And I just said yes.

03:58

because I wasn't doing anything on Fridays.

03:59

And that's how I started understanding.

04:01

Where in the US were you?

04:03

I was most of the time in Cleveland.

04:05

Okay.

04:05

And then in New York.

04:06

Okay.

04:07

So

04:09

I was a student and I wanted this — I wanted to just, you know, drink those, uh have some money.

04:15

And they gave me a bottle to pour and I understood that

04:18

The reason I'm pouring the wine is for selling the wine and not just to pour the wine.

04:22

So if I sell well enough, I can have a bottle for myself for Shabbat.

04:27

That was just my cool — my common sense.

04:30

So I understood, first of all I have to sell, and B, in order to sell I need to understand the wine and I need to build a story.

04:38

And since then that's been actually my like my main path in in wine is understanding the story and building the story and presenting the story.

04:48

Um I'd say two bottles that actually actually changed my view on wines was

04:57

If I'm talking about a red wine, it was Netofa, Domaine Netofa, GSM, which I don't think I think they don't produce anymore.

05:05

But back, it was uh 2016, which was the first wine that I drank and I felt something different.

05:13

I think they make it a bit of a little bit [inaudible — crosstalk]

05:14

[inaudible], they just — right.

05:15

They just — and they made it, it's different 'cause that was a younger one and the fresher one.

05:19

This is a more complex one.

05:21

Yeah.

05:21

Yeah.

05:21

But the actual Domaine, uh the the serious Domaine that they used to make, what was great, they stopped stopped making it.

05:27

But that was a red one that I understood first of all that there's more than uh

05:33

Cabernet.

05:34

Like that was the first ABC for me.

05:36

Um and I was actually excited to pour it or to drink it and buying it.

05:42

And the white wine that changed my view and made me a white wine person.

05:47

was Ramón Cardova Rías Baixas.

05:50

Wow.

05:50

Which I remember I still have a picture of it, I think, that I in my phone that I took.

05:56

It was over uh maybe nine, ten years ago.

05:59

That I drank that white wine and said, Oh, there's something different here.

06:04

That's what they're talking about, and that's what it's meant to be.

06:06

And and that's when I started getting into white wines, and white wines became like my favorite.

06:11

But those are the two uh

06:12

I'd say bottles.

06:13

Very cool.

06:14

You're looking for wines around the world.

06:16

What makes you stop and say, kosher wine drinkers need to experience this?

06:22

So it it all started when I was getting more and more into into the wines and I started also teaching wine a little bit.

06:28

I used to work at a place that

06:30

used to exist in Yerushalayim that was called the Wine Temple.

06:33

Right.

06:33

And I used to I used to work a lot with tourists and teach them about wine and about especially Israeli wine, but about wine and like

06:40

run uh like wine workshops and wine — Eli.

06:43

Yeah.

06:44

Eli's a great guy, great guy.

06:45

So Eli's one of the people that got me into this industry professionally and taught me a lot.

06:50

Then I understood something and then there was like we brought in the kosher WSET

06:55

Which the first ones were at the temple.

06:56

Oh, I didn't know that.

06:57

And yes.

06:58

So we were working on it and then we brought it in there because we're we were we were presenting ourselves as like a cultural center of the yeah.

07:04

An education center.

07:05

Right.

07:06

So and I understood something that that frustrated me.

07:09

I said I'm trying I'm I'm in this industry and I'm trying to be the best at it, but I can't even if I really work out and if I really want

07:18

I have a glass ceiling above me, which I can't break.

07:22

Because I can't be, then my dream was to be a sommelier, I can't be the best sommelier in the world.

07:27

So I I wasn't thinking that I would be the best, but I was aiming to be the best in the other world so I can be somewhere nice in the middle.

07:35

But even that I can't because I can't drink anything.

07:37

You can't drink any of the non-kosher wines.

07:45

from the world.

07:46

So that's when I started like that dream, that spark, got into me that okay, some something needs to change and it shouldn't be that hard.

07:54

Years came by and

07:56

I opened my company and we started working and I sold a lot of wine and then I got the opportunity to actually start producing wines in the world.

08:05

Me and my partner, we didn't really know how and where to start.

08:08

And I was I was in the US doing a market run and I was I was supposed to leave back to Israel and I got a call.

08:16

Some some big company that asked me to to do like a wine workshop the day after I was supposed to leave.

08:20

I was debating but I decided to delay my flight and to stay for that.

08:24

And when I got there — it was in Monsey.

08:26

And when I got to Monsey

08:28

They called me and they told me if I could just wait an hour before I come.

08:31

So I did the only thing I know what to do and I just walked into a wine store and started roaming around.

08:37

While I was just looking at bottles and seeing if I see anything new, anything interesting, I was talking in Hebrew with my partner and some guy that looks very, very European turned to me and he's like, uh, you speak Hebrew?

08:49

I was like, yeah.

08:50

And he just started talking to us.

08:51

And he was in his 70s.

08:54

And we started talking and apparently he's from Portugal.

08:57

He's a Jew.

08:59

that lives in Portugal for 50 years and he actually represented a winery.

09:05

That was like two weeks after I spoke to my partner and said I want to start making wine in Portugal because I just read about Portugal and it's like we need to find something.

09:12

And that's how we just we exchanged numbers, got back to Israel, I told my partner, nothing's gonna happen with it.

09:17

I know those stories

09:20

A few a week later I got a phone call, he's coming to Israel to meet me.

09:23

We flew to Portugal also, and that's how like we really started.

09:26

Um but

09:28

What's the brand?

09:28

What was the brand? And the brand was Solar das Bouças, which we still make um in Vinho Verde.

09:35

That's where I did my — uh I really learned the hard way how to make kosher wine and uh

09:42

and what to do and what not to do.

09:43

That was a good school for me.

09:46

But really what I try I try to look to today there's there's a thing — got good experience with that.

09:53

I'm looking first of all mostly for something that wasn't wasn't made before.

09:57

That's something I really, really look for.

10:00

Something that has a story, a real story.

10:04

Yeah.

10:04

I really try to run away from private labels or just find a factory that produces mass wineries, mass wines and and

10:14

And just sell a wine just in order to sell.

10:16

I'm trying to bring a story of an origin, a story of a great variety, a story of a person

10:22

A story of a place, a history, and because that's back to my back-then ceiling.

10:27

That glass ceiling.

10:30

And knowing I want to drink that and I try to get as close to the non-kosher bottle just with the kosher stamp.

10:37

Like that's my goal.

10:39

Take us inside the first conversation with a winery.

10:42

about making a kosher wine, what did they usually not understand?

10:49

So just to run down the numbers first.

10:53

Yeah.

10:53

Today I go to wine shows and fairs around the world.

10:57

I contact wineries in the regions that I'm looking for.

11:00

Usually it will go — the numbers are like, I will talk to about a hundred wineries.

11:05

Ten or fifteen will start talking to me, five will really want to do it, and then one or two will actually get to actually making a wine.

11:15

So that's behind every bottle way before I get to start production.

11:20

That's what I have to get through it.

11:22

Okay.

11:22

Um they hear about kosher wine.

11:25

Some know.

11:25

Actually in the past I think last year was the year that was

11:29

kind of the easiest for me.

11:30

I go to I go to a Paris wine show every February and have some meetings set up, but I also go around and just ask people if they know what kosher wine is.

11:40

And that was like the most that people said, oh, we know kosher wine.

11:43

I heard about kosher wine.

11:44

We're interested, we're interested to hear about kosher wine.

11:47

Um because people are looking to open up to more markets

11:50

The competition is very high, so they hear that and and they're interested.

11:54

The main thing is uh so then I start

11:58

I I I have a good hack that I have because Adam Montefiore wrote once in in Wine Folly.

12:03

Yeah.

12:04

He wrote like a nice article about what kosher wine is.

12:08

So that's usually in my first email, that's my first introduction.

12:11

I send a link to that to that and that sums up for non-Jewish people who don't know what kosher wine is, it gives them the nice basis of it.

12:19

I'd rather that than ChatGPT or or you know Gemini or [inaudible].

12:23

And I don't know if he knows how much I how much I use his article.

12:26

Do you ever speak to him?

12:27

Actually not.

12:28

I read him a lot.

12:32

And he's really a special person.

12:44

So back to what back to that.

12:45

So I send them usually I send them that and then we start we start talking.

12:49

We have either I go to the to the winery.

12:51

let's say before the war when I did uh when I was occupied in a lot of miluim so it was easier for me to just hop on a plane and fly.

12:59

Um I learned the hard way how to do it remotely also.

13:03

I always like the physical connection with people because I think it's also a lot about wine, but also in general, you read a person, you make a person feel you when you meet him.

13:12

You gain trust and when it's in through a screen.

13:15

It's very hard.

13:16

Yeah.

13:17

Because you're you're um you're you're pretty much limited to his conception about you.

13:24

when in person it's much easier to break it down and to control it or change it.

13:29

Um but then we meet we start talking about doing that.

13:33

Usually, usually I'm saying after I went through everything and we see that it's relevant

13:38

There is the hardest thing is this sweet spot, because the sweet spot between marketing and production, I'd say that's usually in any winery, also wineries that I work with, Israeli wineries.

13:49

that I consult or I have worked in, um, there's always the battle between production and marketing, right?

13:54

Marketing wants something, production wants to be very realistic or to work easier.

13:58

And when it comes to that, who do I usually talk to?

14:01

I talk to either the CEO, marketing manager, export manager.

14:04

Those are the people I talk to

14:06

Um and they could approve and approve and approve, but once it gets to the production It's production that makes it.

14:11

Yeah.

14:12

Right.

14:12

And then there it comes very it becomes very challenging.

14:16

I had I had a I had um I had a winery in Portugal which I really really wanted to make wine in um was I think 2022 and uh its region's called uh Tejo

14:27

in the south of Portugal, very hot place.

14:30

Um do you speak Portuguese?

14:33

No, I I know some words but I uh — Okay.

14:36

I just uh

14:38

They learned Hebrew.

14:40

We get [inaudible] Hebrew and I have I have my guy there that also knows how to translate and explain me the uh their mentality because it's very unique.

14:48

Um it's not a classic European uh mentality, but in in person it's it's easier to connect.

14:55

But uh so we went there, a beautiful winery, one of the most modern wineries I've been in

15:00

Vineyards are just — the vineyard is planted in a river that moved over the course of 500 years.

15:08

And it's just

15:09

the wines, or red wines, have so much minerals in them that in a blind tasting it tastes like a white wine.

15:15

And I was fascinated about it and I got into

15:18

Meeting them, building the team to make the wines.

15:21

We started making the wines.

15:23

And three days into production, I get a phone call.

15:26

I get a phone call every few hours.

15:28

The winemaker said this, the winemaker said that, those guys are doing this, those guys are doing that.

15:32

And it became so hectic that eventually I told the guy, look, we tried and I feel bad.

15:38

But that's not the way I want to make kosher wine.

15:40

That's not the experience I want you to have with kosher wine.

15:43

So let's just leave the wine by you.

15:44

I'm sending the team back home.

15:47

And and

15:49

Let's just forget about it.

15:51

And that's what that's what happened.

15:53

So sometimes it could get to that.

15:55

I don't fight over kosher wine.

15:57

I think kosher wine and wine has to be made with love

16:00

has to be made with you know uh uh respect you feel it in the wine that's the energy that wine brings um so we left that it was a huge project I invested a lot in it but it wasn't worth it for me the headache

16:12

I had another winery that used to call me every while to tell me, look, you have your workers there.

16:17

The mashgichim pretty much.

16:18

They represent me.

16:19

It's very important to pick the right people and uh people who know what they do and thank God there is

16:25

Because there's such a big kosher production around the world, you have some people that are that with a lot of experience that have a lot of uh um

16:34

professionalism, so so they gain trust with the winery.

16:37

But they used to call me to tell the guys come here and they pray instead of working.

16:42

So the the the mashgiach used to come early in the morning, three mashgichim, put on tefillin, put on tallis, daven Shacharis, and start working.

16:49

Comes Mincha time, they stop, they pray Mincha, and they keep on working.

16:53

And for the goyim, it's it they can't they can't wrap their head around it.

16:57

Yeah, if you're there, work.

16:58

And I used to tell them, look, I understand, you're right, but I'm paying them

17:02

So just let them pray and it may hopefully it'll help help the wine be good.

17:06

But they kept on calling me every single time until they got used to it.

17:10

But the the the most challenging things is when we get to the actual production, when a winemaker gets it.

17:16

That he can't touch the wine, that every time he needs to take a lab sample, he needs to call the mashgiach to come in.

17:25

That's that's the most challenging thing.

17:27

Although today also with technology

17:30

It becomes easier.

17:32

Which means back uh I used to fight with production.

17:35

There's some wineries that want to take a lab test of the wine every 24 hours.

17:39

Which when you make kosher wine around the world, it's it's irrelevant.

17:43

Don't — it makes it too expensive if the mashgiach has to live there for three, four weeks.

17:47

Okay.

17:47

And I saw I've consulted with winemakers that are my friends.

17:51

And I have my experience in making wine and you you can do it every few days or once a week and follow it right enough and that that will be good

17:59

And I used to fight — I'd sign guarantees that the wine will be will be good and we can send it uh once a week, once a month, uh sorry, once a week.

18:07

And and and that worked.

18:09

Today I just started production in the Lisbon region and they had a device on every tank.

18:16

That costs maybe 2,000 euros, that gives you details, live details about the wine, and it only rings

18:29

Whenever it goes out of balance.

18:30

Right.

18:31

And then the mashgiach already gets

18:33

alerted, gets an alarm to his phone and he knows how to uh come in and do that, which is makes it very easy.

18:39

And uh cool.

18:41

Yeah.

18:42

I was wondering what you meant by technology has changed that.

18:45

That's really uh it's interesting.

18:48

Okay, so I have another question.

18:51

When you produce a kosher wine with an established winery, whose fingerprints end up on the finished bottle?

18:58

Are you trying to make the wine in the style of that winery, or are you trying to make wine from there in a so in a mark in a style that you feel is marketable?

19:10

Oh so I usually uh

19:12

My goal is to break the glass ceiling for the kosher consumer, not to create something new

19:19

Okay, I want the kosher consumer like me and you to be able we have this you know bottle of Ribera del Duero here.

19:26

As of now that's the only kosher Ribera del Duero in the market.

19:29

There used to be another one

19:31

But I want to drink Ribera del Duero.

19:33

I want it to be as good as Ribera del Duero could be.

19:36

And I want it to be as similar to the winery that I already picked.

19:39

So it's you it's gonna always gonna be

19:41

the winemakers and the winery's philosophy, the winemakers and the winery's um uh work that I just support and help them uh become kosher

19:53

That's a baseline for the winery.

19:55

Once I already work with the winery, I could already create

20:00

uh another wine, which means I used to I made uh I made a w wine X um at a winery and then I decided that I mean let's get back to Portugal because that was used to be my biggest production.

20:13

Uh uh there I made in the Douro, I made uh uh the Godin brand, um, which is a fun entry-level Godin uh uh uh uh red dry red wine.

20:24

And

20:25

I wanted to make I had an idea for this liquid how to make it a reserve, how to make it a little better.

20:32

So I insisted on getting new 500-liter Portuguese oak.

20:37

and test the amount of time that the wine has to stay there and build the right blend.

20:43

So that's a wine that I made together with the wine team there.

20:46

I had to approve it.

20:47

That was a vision that I had and I wanted to bring it to the market.

20:51

But that's doesn't happen very often.

20:54

I usually trust the process of the winery because by the time I get to working with the winery, it's a winery that really I believe in what they do that it is marketable.

21:06

If you could put one unfamiliar grape on every kosher wine lover's table, what would you choose?

21:15

Wow.

21:17

I'm really asking you these questions because you have a much larger breadth than most people, especially in kosher wines and going through

21:26

And you must taste non-kosher wines as well, obviously, which I — I'm I'm Sephardi.

21:33

I'm not allowed to taste non-kosher wines, taste and spit.

21:36

I can't do that.

21:37

So I'm always interested in uh people's experience.

21:41

So I think I think the one one I th let's start with red.

21:45

I think the one red grape variety that

21:49

It's pretty missed in the in the kosher is the is the Tinto Fino slash Tempranillo slash uh uh Tinta Roriz.

22:00

It's it's

22:01

It fits the idea of the what people are looking from, you know, all those Israeli-style Bordeaux, a bold

22:12

v uh uh uh heavy bold wine, but it has everything checked and balanced when it makes when it produces well

22:20

Which means it has a ton of fruit, it has a lot of spices coming from the [inaudible] and from the oak, it has great acid from growing in places that are not Israel.

22:31

And if it's also a more Mediterranean style of of uh of uh culinary that we have here, rather than going

22:40

straight up French and it's not gonna be as different for the consumer here and I think also another great variety that's

22:49

that's not yet to reach its peak, reach its potential, is the Nebbiolo.

22:53

I think there aren't enough Nebbiolos in the kosher market.

22:57

I think Nebbiolo is a wine that can

23:00

has to have more uh uh trials and researches also even in growing it in Israel.

23:05

And and worldwide I think it also could be

23:09

When it will become more uh affordable, I guess, because today then most Nebbiolos are very expensive or not very great in the kosher world, um, that's gonna reach that.

23:18

Um in white wines — Hold on, let me ask you a question about Nebbiolo.

23:23

Because I'm told that and I have a friend who produces a really high-end Nebbiolo in Italy.

23:30

Dr. Madeb, Ralph Madeb is a good friend.

23:35

There are people who say that the Nebbiolos that are produced outside of Italy

23:41

aren't really Nebbiolos.

23:42

I mean they they produce it in Southern California.

23:45

I I know the um Shirah brothers produce a Nebbiolo.

23:50

Um

23:51

And they're they're trying to produce it here as well.

23:53

I know there's uh some some wineries.

23:57

Um I don't — how true is that?

24:01

I mean so

24:04

I'm I'm a big believer in in that wine doesn't really have rules.

24:11

Okay, those rules that we have and had in wine are good for story, are good for marketing, and are good for tradition.

24:20

Today I think the tradition side of the wine is good, but it's not uh it's not a boundary.

24:27

Okay, because with if we only used to stick with what should grow where, we wouldn't have great wines.

24:34

Coming from other places, right?

24:36

If Sauvignon Blanc stayed in in France, we wouldn't have a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc.

24:42

Yeah.

24:43

Right?

24:43

Which became a staple.

24:46

So if Cabernet Sauvignon wouldn't leave those regions, again, so we wouldn't have a lot of bad wine, but we also would have missed some of some of the greater wines that we have.

24:55

uh if Petite Sirah — Durif — wouldn't leave France, we wouldn't have some good Vitkin's Petite Sirah, for example, right?

25:04

Awesome.

25:04

Which is a wine you wouldn't want to miss.

25:06

So in general, it's a wine that people need to learn how to do it.

25:09

If you're trying to imitate the Italian Nebbiolo, you're right, you'll never get to there.

25:14

It's very specific.

25:15

It's what people are used to.

25:17

It has a certain, I'd say, uh uh spots of of climate of history of tradition of the way of growing it of older vines

25:28

So if you try to imitate uh uh Italian Nebbiolo, you're not gonna you're not gonna get to there.

25:34

And in that way he is he's right.

25:36

But if you try to take

25:38

Bring a new expression to Nebbiolo and try to study it and see how you can fit it to your climate or to your style of winemaking.

25:46

So you can get great Nebbiolos which aren't that are not trying to uh replace the Italian ones.

25:52

Yeah.

25:52

For example, Josh's Nebbiolo we just spoke about from Essa that we're bringing here.

25:57

It's a great Nebbiolo.

25:59

It's not a great Italian Nebbiolo.

26:01

It's different.

26:02

It has some resemblance because it's a still a Nebbiolo and has those

26:06

meaty, earthy, uh uh leathery uh notes to it.

26:10

So you know it's unique to Nebbiolo, but it's a lot more acidic, it's a lot cleaner, uh it's less uh rustic than uh than a good Italian Nebbiolo.

26:20

So I think especially in the kosher wine world, which we're we're still limited, we can't get wines from everywhere in the world.

26:28

We can get so the more winemakers

26:31

will play around and try to find uh uh their way of making things.

26:36

We're gonna be able to have uh uh greater greater wines and especially here in Israel we're we're at a very very crucial point

26:46

of having the map of the wine regions, of having uh just coming out just came out.

26:52

Right.

26:53

And having the regions defining themselves.

26:56

So now is the time

26:58

To keep on trying to find what is really, really what really could work here and what can make us special and not just making another uh Bordeaux blend and try to send that to the world.

27:12

I think Israel, as far as a collection of winemakers, has the most creative um

27:24

Amazing winemakers.

27:26

I mean, they're special winemakers all over the world.

27:30

But Israel contains this

27:33

I call them Sabristas because it's like crazy.

27:37

Um there's so many interesting plays as to what's going on.

27:43

I I when it I think it was February twenty-five

27:47

I went to the to the wine show in Paris and I was I was still still in miluim.

27:53

I I got like off for two weeks.

27:56

Went out of Lebanon to uh to fly to the wine show and and getting right back to there.

28:03

And

28:05

I was it's it's it's a great event.

28:08

Okay, it's about six huge halls, the size of a football court each hall.

28:14

Just just one

28:16

Divided by regions, divided by countries, by wine styles, big producers, small producers, just to walk around is fascinating as a wine lover.

28:26

And I remember looking around and just feeling that miss. I said, Israel has such a great story to tell in their wines.

28:39

And you know, the entire what we call Hasbara, right?

28:44

Was what it's we felt how much how big of a miss, how that's the world that we really lost in the past few years.

28:51

And trying now to try to win it, we're in a three-year delay.

28:58

But to try to find the spots where it's more acceptable and try to express and show Israel through that.

29:05

That should be something that we're striving for and trying to do.

29:10

And I was looking there and I said, what if we brought in

29:15

Our Arab winemaker from [inaudible] and our monks from Latrun [?].

29:23

And our uh

29:26

Ariel Be'er from Ella Valley.

29:28

The [inaudible] that that served.

29:31

And uh serves.

29:32

That serves.

29:35

The guy doesn't sleep, he works, he does.

29:37

Yeah, I was amazed

29:38

to see him coming back and forth.

29:41

I don't think he takes off his army boots ever.

29:43

Ever.

29:44

Ever.

29:45

And and having uh um

29:47

What's her name from Tura, a female, a religious female from the Shomron, and having an Ethiopian winemaker and another Arab one that works together with the non with the Jewish one and

29:58

Having all of these stories, having Avremi Bernstein [?] from from Teperberg, okay, a full-on Haredi from Kiryat Sefer that works in one of the biggest wineries in Israel.

30:07

That's a beautiful story to show to the world, besides the great wines, right?

30:13

That unity, that diversity.

30:15

There's nothing like it.

30:17

And as I'm thinking that

30:19

of it, I walked through the Lebanese stand of wines and I said, this country, I just got out of there.

30:27

Right?

30:27

It's a broken country, right?

30:30

That's full of war and terror.

30:32

And they still had ten wineries showing up, showing there.

30:35

Because it's hot.

30:39

Um they're thought of as being one of the the best.

30:44

There's a winery in Lebanon that's thought of as being one of the best wineries in the world.

30:49

Which is just

30:51

It's amazing.

30:51

But they still have part it's like the Galil or Golan.

30:54

They still have some of the of those regions.

30:56

And there's some Christian I I actually went to talk to them.

31:00

Right?

31:00

And that there's some nice Christian families there that are are rooted deep in their own terroir's history.

31:10

And know what they're making and they also suffer from the war.

31:13

And they're also looking to get out of that situation.

31:16

They used to be

31:17

The Mediterranean's Paris.

31:19

It was.

31:20

I remember that.

31:21

And today Paris is the — the Lebanese uh in Beirut, it was like — it was the party city, people used to sit

31:31

And you know, in cafes on the on on the on the coast it was… So my my really — when I came back there my my dream was to find or to fund or to I I still don't know how to

31:45

actually bring it out to uh to work it out but to to build a foundation that knows how to bring those wineries, bring the story of Israel out to those places to the world.

31:58

And show that.

31:59

And I think it's it's not just about selling the wine.

32:01

It's not just about showing the wine.

32:03

It's about showing what Israel really is.

32:05

And it connects to our history.

32:08

Right?

32:08

And it connects to our future and our present.

32:11

And uh that's for me that's that's a really, really, really big miss.

32:16

I agree with you.

32:17

I agree with you a hundred percent.

32:21

Okay.

32:23

Again I'm playing on your on your um very broad distribution.

32:29

Give us a three-glass journey through Portugal, New Zealand, and South Africa.

32:35

What would you pour to show us how different they are?

32:41

I love those questions.

32:42

They just limit me so much.

32:44

Okay.

32:44

No, if they're limiting you…

32:46

Because I I wish I could just pour people whatever they do.

32:48

So we said we said

32:50

New Zealand, Portugal, and South Africa?

32:52

Yeah.

32:54

Fine.

32:54

Do you want to include Israel into that?

32:56

You can include Israel if you want, but I'm not sure.

32:57

No, no, let's leave Israel out.

32:59

Let's leave Israel out.

33:03

The easiest is New Zealand.

33:04

A Sauvignon — Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand.

33:07

I'm I'm a big fan of of of new interesting crazy things, right?

33:12

When I see something new

33:13

Or something I like, I go to a restaurant, something I haven't tasted before, that's for sure the thing that I'm gonna order.

33:18

Whether I like it or not, at least I'm gonna know.

33:20

Right?

33:21

As a kosher consumer, also with food, it's very hard for me.

33:24

I sometimes go

33:26

to restaurants around the world just to sit and see people eat food I can't.

33:30

I know I smell.

33:30

I get a glass of beer and smell stuff.

33:32

I smell stuff and I just got okay.

33:35

I say, okay, that's how you do it.

33:36

And that's it.

33:37

Okay.

33:37

That's as much as experience I'm gonna get with that and I'm I'm okay.

33:40

So but when something is as great as it gets, even if it's quote unquote kind of boring, you can't deny it.

33:48

So a New Zealand uh Sauvignon Blanc

33:52

First of all, it has that fingerprint, right?

33:55

That tropical amazing fingerprint, which you can't deny, so you right away know that is a New Zealand

34:03

And it's from New Zealand.

34:04

You don't have to be a big wine connoisseur.

34:06

You just have to smell it once and you know.

34:09

It's also very friendly wine, which means everyone can enjoy it.

34:13

Super approachable.

34:14

Yep.

34:15

And it's also still within those wines there is diversity, which means even if you take today those old kosher Sauvignon Blancs from New Zealand, which aren't that many, but

34:26

You got maybe a handful.

34:28

Um Rimapere by Royal, you got the Mud House that used to come to Israel, then you got the Odd Wires Creek [?] that we bring, Harikoa Wai [?], some uh um Barkan [?] distributor

34:39

just brought in like a jumping sheep or I don't know how to call that.

34:43

Um you still can taste it and and it's a very affordable tasting to do, but you can just taste glass by glass and see that there are differences.

34:51

But yet there's something connecting them together.

34:54

Which I think for a region that's that should be the like you know the the dream come true that you have something very unique that connects everything together, but you still can make different styles within it

35:06

Portugal.

35:08

Portugal, the reason I also produce most a lot of my production in Portugal is because Portugal is a very, very interesting story.

35:17

of a region that first of all has over 200 native grape varieties.

35:21

Wow, I didn't know that.

35:23

And it's it's a it's a country by the size of Israel.

35:29

In a way similar to Israel in the diversity of of uh regions.

35:34

Right.

35:34

That's uh that I think your last podcast you were talking about that.

35:38

Yeah.

35:38

Like why Israel shouldn't be uh just one region.

35:41

So Portugal has that uniqueness as well.

35:43

It has uh warm climates, colder climates, it's close to the uh Atlantic Ocean.

35:49

It has Spain on the other side, with higher mountains.

35:52

Has a river crossing it, so it has very very unique subregions within a very small area. Um I just spoke to one of my

36:01

my friends from the Douro Valley.

36:03

The Douro Valley is I'd say the main region in in Portugal and he told me that there is about

36:10

I think 10,000 producers in that region.

36:13

Right?

36:13

We're talking about Israel that has 400 wineries in the entire country. That has one region,

36:19

maybe in the size of the Galil and Golan together that has ten thousand producers.

36:26

It's like — it's Bordeaux also has like ten thousand.

36:31

Right.

36:32

So it's crazy.

36:33

So so and you see that.

36:34

You see wine there everywhere.

36:36

Like every small restaurant that you walk in has a huge wine representation, everything local.

36:42

So Portugal was under the dictatorship until the 80s.

36:46

In a way, I feel bad for the Portuguese people, but for the wine uh uh economy there, that was that was pretty good.

36:52

Because it made it made two things.

36:54

First of all, it made it that

36:55

Until today, most of Portuguese wine is consumed in Portugal.

37:00

And the second thing is that they weren't affected by the uh

37:06

American economic economy coming into the US when around the 80s when people Americans started buying a lot and getting into all those wines.

37:17

Um so for example in Italy, that's when they started actually producing Cabernets and Chardonnays.

37:22

Because they wanted to sell to the Americans, right?

37:25

It happened in France in some regions, it happened in Italy, it happened in Spain.

37:28

Portugal was isolated.

37:31

So they had no reason to plant Cabernet Sauvignon or to take out Alvarinho vineyards and plant Chardonnays.

37:41

So it really helped to maintain that tradition and that history.

37:46

And you walk in and most wineries there are families generation after generation.

37:53

Not very much into technology, but a lot into tradition.

37:57

Um and you have so many great varieties, you have so many styles, and you know it's known mostly for the port.

38:06

The — I learned from them also the way of drinking wine is for them really, really part of the day-to-day.

38:13

You know, we like love to say how every uh Italian restaurant opens a uh

38:18

cheap red wine with their pasta.

38:20

Yeah.

38:20

There they really drink wine, and they're really trying — when when I when I went to make a port production in Portugal, the winery, which is fifth generation.

38:32

The guy came in and told me, I'm just asking you for one thing.

38:35

Please don't make it a nerdy, you know, high-end style of product.

38:42

You know how we drink our ports?

38:43

And you can see it in the summer in every restaurant in Porto and every bar.

38:48

They have a glass, a gin and tonic glass, with white port, tonic, and a slice of orange.

38:54

They call it Portonic.

38:56

Okay?

38:57

They just drink their wines and they enjoy their wines.

39:02

So it's so diverse and there's so much to discover there, which I'm still trying and to to produce more and more there.

39:09

But I'd say if we want to go uh uh the most unique is gonna be a white variety coming from Vinho Verde, which is a region that produces

39:19

95% of just white wines.

39:21

Um, and that's the Loureiro.

39:24

Loureiro is a very — it's like the Portuguese Riesling in a way.

39:28

Okay.

39:29

Okay.

39:29

It's a very, very uh um

39:33

Very wild.

39:35

It has that uh let's say I don't want to call it gassy style of uh uh um

39:46

Anyway, I forgot the word.

39:48

Also in Hebrew I forgot the word.

39:50

But it's uh super acidic, super fruity.

39:54

not balanced at all, very, very wild.

39:56

And when it comes from the right vineyards, it also tends to be very salty.

40:01

Okay, cool.

40:02

And so that's gonna be something so different that uh I always tell people when I when it when I give them the drink:

40:08

You could — you could like it or not like it, but there's nothing like it.

40:12

Right?

40:12

That's that's a that's a great example for a wine like that, that there's nothing like that also in the kosher world or almost in the world period.

40:19

And South Africa, South Africa, so if we're going non-kosher South Africa, there's there's some great Pinotages, okay, which is

40:28

Cool, fun, um very earthy, leathery, almost tastes like uh in a way good Pinotage has beef jerky notes.

40:37

which is also very South African.

40:39

But if we're going kosher, we're very limited, right?

40:42

We have very few that make mostly

40:45

entry level cheaper wines and we have Josh.

40:48

Yeah.

40:49

Um and going with Josh, so Josh makes some wild wines that are that are

40:54

like we said, the Nebbiolo, they're not very traditional to South Africa. But if we're going to the region uh Hemel-en-Aarde in

41:02

uh in Cape Town where Josh is has most of his grapes coming from.

41:06

So a Pinot Noir will be a great example.

41:10

Those Pinot Noirs there they grow when they grow well, they grow on mountain slopes and the bottom of the slopes

41:16

close to the ocean.

41:18

So in the summer in the early mornings it gets a beautiful layer of fog.

41:25

They pretty much uh uh they use it as a filter to the grapes.

41:31

So at the hard time of the sun

41:33

The fog pretty much keeps the grape.

41:35

So then that way we get uh we get we still can get good Pinot Noirs that are still acidic, that are still lighter bodied, but also very fruitful and flavorful.

41:45

It's like uh when somewhere if I say California and Bourgogne meet midway.

41:50

Um so that's gonna be or the way I said Josh's Pinot Noir is the greatest Israeli Pinot Noir.

41:56

Exists there.

41:57

I yeah.

41:58

When you make wine for kosher consumers, is there pressure to make it taste familiar, or do you just let the place speak?

42:10

So there is coming from the marketing side, I'd say in a way in in in my company, there is a pressure to make it.

42:20

As close to the consumer's taste in my hand, in my way in production, and the reason I'm doing that is to have it as close to uh

42:30

To the region and to the wineries production.

42:33

Um I'd say the only places where I lose on that is when we produce

42:42

Like cheap entry-level wines.

42:45

Okay, which is that, anyways, those wines are are are just because you need to have that in your portfolio and part of the business to selling store to store and to bring something new.

42:55

Um, if I can make

42:57

A cheap wine that's that resembles the the region, I'll still make it.

43:01

And it's easier in some countries, like uh it's easy in Portugal, it's easy in Argentina and Chile and places where cheaper wines are uh uh uh

43:09

wines anyways is cheaper to produce.

43:12

Um but once it comes to mid-level and higher level wineries, it's it's hands down.

43:17

Like I don't care about I I'll take

43:21

on myself to teach the consumers how to drink this wine.

43:24

And I do it a lot.

43:25

I walk around stores.

43:26

I go to the events and I try to build that.

43:28

I really believe in that.

43:30

Um but the only reason why we're doing it is to give the kosher consumer the opportunity to drink this wine with a kosher stamp.

43:39

So in my contract with the wineries is that the same wine has to be um the same wine has to be it has to be very similar.

43:48

I understand if there's some difference in tanks, and with some wineries, especially in the first year

43:53

For example, I would produce I want to produce 10,000 liters of kosher wine.

43:59

We will produce it in a 20,000 liter tank.

44:01

And the winery will have to use for their own wine the 10,000 of those liters, that's how I guarantee the quality.

44:08

What belief about wine did you once defend confidently and now you think you got it wrong?

44:17

You could say never.

44:19

There wasn't anything.

44:20

No, no, there's there's for sure so many that that I have to think about.

44:24

I I really believed that people like

44:26

We we spoke about a little bit before the before the podcast that people drink wine like we like we do.

44:31

Like I understa I it took me a while to understand most people

44:36

don't really — are not wine nerds.

44:38

I don't want to say don't understand wine, but are not wine nerds.

44:41

Yeah.

44:42

And and the misconception I had that I thought that they need to be

44:47

Now I understand that I want them to be, but they don't need to be.

44:50

Right.

44:51

That's how the world works, and that's how I need to find the ways to get to them in their own way.

44:56

But most most I'd say a common person who drinks wine

45:00

probably most likely won't even listen to this podcast.

45:02

Right?

45:03

He won't — he's not trying to get — he's just trying to be confident.

45:06

Most of the times when I get to to I'd say weddings where I pour wine

45:10

bigger events where I don't just meet like wine nerds or let's say people who have gone to RCC [?] or people have wine groups or buy wine or have wine fridges in in their in their in their house.

45:21

Um they almost always apologize.

45:25

Look, I don't really understand wine — or they're defensive.

45:29

Like we said, I don't drink blends, I only drink uh Cabernets, I don't drink Cabernet, I only drink blends, which is

45:36

From my perspective, a lot of in a way nonsense, but I understand where they're coming from because a lot of people made wine unapproachable.

45:44

Yeah.

45:45

It's fun to make wine unapproachable.

45:48

It's really unfortunate.

45:50

It's really unfortunate because it it puts us in a in such a

45:55

A bad place.

45:57

You know, there the first thing an experienced winemaker or an experienced wine seller

46:04

um downplays is Moscato d'Asti.

46:09

It's like, this is this isn't wine.

46:11

This is like this is like uh

46:15

Apple juice or whatever.

46:17

It's like fizzy apple juice.

46:19

And and it's like it is the number one selling kosher wine in the world.

46:26

I think that's the number one in the world period without even adding kosher.

46:31

Yeah, no, it it's it I think as a single bottle it it's just it's such a

46:37

It's such an entry that, you know, and we don't use it at all.

46:42

We we basically we basically downplay it.

46:45

And I think I think that's why I said so that's why I think it's it's a big miss.

46:49

It's fun to make wine unapproachable.

46:51

It makes us feel better.

46:52

Yeah.

46:53

Right?

46:54

But stupid.

46:55

But it makes us it it makes us strong.

46:57

I th I didn't used to think that way.

46:59

And today the first thing I tell people is

47:02

If it's delicious for you, if you like drinking it, stop apologizing.

47:07

If you want to dive in, the window and the door is open for you.

47:10

Choose from where you want to walk in, and there's a lot to get into.

47:14

Okay.

47:15

I don't think I understand wine the way I want to understand wine there's so much to it.

47:19

And we just said for example Ariel Beer, right?

47:22

He's a great friend of mine.

47:23

And I'm always fascinated.

47:25

The guy

47:26

Works and makes wine at like three wineries.

47:29

He's always serving.

47:30

Yep.

47:31

He has a family.

47:32

He's a good dad.

47:33

I know his kids.

47:34

And he's always constantly keeps on learning more and more about wine.

47:39

I'm not able to do all of those things together.

47:42

I want to know more.

47:43

Okay, I'm I'm probably more nerdy than the average person, but I wish I knew more agriculture and more uh biology and more chemistry and more um so in the end of the day we don't know everything.

47:53

So instead of you know

47:56

Being a snob about what we know, try to teach what we know.

48:02

And

48:04

I agree with you entirely [?].

48:05

And that's I think that's the biggest thing.

48:07

And I think us as wine consumers, um, if you don't know how to do that, there's uh a great book that's called uh Wine for Dummies.

48:15

Yeah

48:15

That is really helpful and I love I love that book and I think if you want to know how to teach people and and educate people in a simple way

48:25

Either give them to read that or or or read it yourself, and you're gonna see that wine is fun.

48:30

And a Moscato — there's no difference — the consistency of Moscato, you know, people praise Victor Schoenfeld and his consistency.

48:37

It's as hard to make — to have the consistency with a Moscato.

48:40

And the Moscato has a bigger tradition, Moscato d'Asti, than than the Golan Heights, at least in consistent tradition.

48:48

And the grapes grow.

48:50

So you have the story, you have the region, you have everything.

48:52

You don't like it, it's too sweet for you.

48:54

There's so many wines that I don't like.

48:57

So what?

48:57

It used to be — when I was in uh by a friend's house for, you know, I was just now Sukkos by a friend, he called, invited me for a seudah [?].

49:04

I was in his sukkah and he opened some wines, but he had just so many wine glasses, right?

49:09

And the rest

49:10

That's what he had.

49:11

So he had plastic glasses.

49:13

I took the white wine I poured into a plastic.

49:15

I wanted to drink it from plastic glass.

49:17

It's not always where you have to

49:19

You know, think about overthink the wine, just enjoy the wine.

49:22

And I wanted people to see me drinking from the plastic glass.

49:24

Right.

49:24

Right?

49:25

The plastic uh cup.

49:27

Just enjoy the wine sometimes.

49:28

Drink it like you enjoy it.

49:29

Drink it like you drink it.

49:30

And don't like it's not gonna be a wine when I go to a fancy restaurant, fancy dinner, I'm not gonna obviously drink it.

49:36

This way.

49:36

Yeah.

49:37

But sometimes just let it go and just enjoy it.

49:40

I I agree with you totally.

49:43

And actually playing on that, you understand wine branding.

49:48

How can a listener tell when they're paying for what's in the bottle and when they're paying for the story?

49:57

So in a way, um

50:02

Like my way of doing this is is the story is part of what's in the bottle.

50:07

Or sometimes even more important than what's in the bottle.

50:11

Um I like it's a side business that I do, but I help wineries here in Israel to build their story and and brand their labels.

50:18

I design labels for quite a few wineries.

50:21

Right, what's on the label and but m the reason why I do it, I'm not trying to be a graphic artist, is to help them connect to their story.

50:30

When we have um and again people in

50:34

are lazy.

50:35

Okay?

50:36

That's the way people are today.

50:37

People don't we have ChatGPT.

50:39

We don't have to think too much, right?

50:40

We have all those.

50:41

But so

50:42

I want when I build a label, for example, I want to I want to help the person telling the story, the guy at the store that's more important than the winemaker, because he sells the wine.

50:51

He's the one who's interacting with the customer.

50:53

I want to give him notes how to

50:55

Okay, present the wine.

50:56

So for example, we have a bottle here.

50:58

Uh my the guys who listen should uh apologize, but it's called

51:03

Arco de Curiel, right?

51:05

The Arc of Curiel.

51:06

Arco is like an arc, right?

51:09

So it's a historic arc in the region of Ribera del Duero.

51:14

Okay.

51:15

Okay, the Magdalena Arc.

51:17

And that's so we built we have the arc here and we have the location of the vines.

51:21

That's just a small example how through a visual I can explain the story better.

51:27

But I think

51:28

If we're talking about classic regions like Bordeaux or some V regions in Italy, so

51:37

All their labels look the same.

51:38

And you need to know the region and know how to learn read the label.

51:42

When you're talking about newer places, usually

51:48

The more the label looks unique and gives you an idea of the story behind it, it means that the guy that made the wine cared enough to try to tell you something

51:59

And the more it imitates other things and looks um great but likes something else

52:10

usually means that the wine itself is trying to be like something else and not not the same way.

52:18

Like like

52:19

You showed me a bottle earlier, right?

52:20

I told you it looks it like I assumed that it's sweet and you didn't.

52:24

Yep.

52:24

Right?

52:25

You just read the grape varieties.

52:27

I saw the label.

52:28

And I saw I like it looked like so many other things that I said it's probably tastes just like so many other things.

52:36

Okay.

52:36

There are surprises in wine all the time, right?

52:38

I try to drink as many wines and try them because I love surprises.

52:42

Um the main tip I could give people is that first of all, always read the label.

52:49

Right?

52:49

There's some big words and some exaggerations that are marketing or fun or that's the style of the label, but

52:54

Read the small details, read and try to remember, because eventually you're gonna find the method of what you like and what you don't like

53:02

Eventually you're gonna it's gonna help you learn about yourself and what you like.

53:06

When you don't — when you just pour the wine and you drink it, you're not really gonna be able to have a concept in your head of what what's good for you

53:17

What's a wine you love that customers simply don't understand?

53:25

Um

53:29

So the the Solar das Bouças Alvarinho from Vinho Verde that we make is one of my favorite white wines

53:40

And I just I see it also in sales, yeah, but uh most people don't get it

53:47

It's uh it's uh old-vine Alvarinho from Vinho Verde.

53:52

They usually usually in Vinho Verde they make very light

53:56

approachable white wines and this is something that was aged with uh uh oak chips for six months.

54:03

Um it has a very uh

54:07

Big buttery body.

54:10

It has a lot of acid.

54:12

So the body is like a Chardonnay.

54:14

The acid is like a very good Sauvignon Blanc.

54:17

Uh it has a saltiness.

54:19

And it has some effervescence like a Portuguese Vinho Verde usually has.

54:25

And it's such a complex wine.

54:29

that I absolute love absolutely love and I'd say some people get it but most people don't get it.

54:36

I have to taste that.

54:37

Yeah I'll be able to do that.

54:42

I can't tell you

54:43

Okay.

54:44

One of the last questions.

54:47

One bottle to welcome a beginner, one to surprise an experienced wine lover.

54:54

And one to open with someone you love.

54:58

What would you choose?

55:00

To welcome a beginner.

55:02

I think I think the the New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc is just the sweet spot between a super approachable wine.

55:12

and a very clear identity so you can show someone how how much there is in a region, in terroir, in climate.

55:24

And that's very easy to teach.

55:26

And that opens, it's an eye-opener for beginners.

55:30

And I've seen it, I've seen it live so many times with that wine.

55:36

Most wine tasters, like I said, are are are lazy.

55:39

I'm not saying it in a very negative way, but they're just trying to drink the wine and not

55:43

Like we overthink the wine.

55:45

And they do the opposite.

55:46

They just drink the wine.

55:47

I try to learn from them as well.

55:49

But because of that, they don't have the time to have 40 minutes on one glass of wine and try to think and let it open and and define the complexity of it.

55:58

So when it's so approachable and so much in your face, they could get it.

56:03

A wine to surprise — Surprise an experienced wine drinker.

56:08

Surprise an experienced wine drinker.

56:12

For me, it's gonna be always a dry red from the Douro Valley.

56:17

Um most people know Douro Valley, even wine lovers, from port wine.

56:22

Um and you can get

56:25

so much of um especially non-kosher world but also in in kosher wines uh uh approachable in price

56:34

wines, dry red wines, or even dry whites, but dry reds from native grape varieties, good blends, even without oak at all, that you're gonna absolutely love.

56:48

You mentioned dry ports.

56:51

What keeps them alive?

56:54

It's not dry ports.

56:55

I think in the in the in the Israeli approach to what they call port style is that it should be a very sweet wine.

57:02

And in general, our red wines are are pretty sweet.

57:05

So so having a a good port

57:09

Is — it's it's like music when you have um a song playing and the bass is just a little high, okay, like a reggae song where you like really hear the bass, or

57:18

Or a blues when you really hear the guitar.

57:20

It just defines the genre.

57:22

It's not really, it's not out of balance within the context.

57:25

So the sweetness there is just that's a little higher in sweetness, a little higher with the alcohol.

57:31

And it creates this magnificent wine.

57:34

It's not just a straight-up sugar bomb, straight-up sugar bomb into your mouth.

57:38

And that's what I really learned in Portugal.

57:42

They they drink it there with a nice piece of cheese and a cracker for dessert and that's that's good enough.

57:47

And this wine could age well. Anyways, when those wines age their sweetness goes a little a little higher.

57:53

And their blends are usually blends of

57:56

A few years together.

57:57

They're most mostly non-vintages.

57:59

And when you have a — So I didn't even know that.

58:03

It's like champagne.

58:04

Right.

58:04

Like they're mostly non-vintage because they blend them together to get a consistent

58:09

So this is — so you have their — you have Ruby, Tawny, and LBV.

58:14

Mm-hmm.

58:14

If you want to you can only make an LBV from a Ruby.

58:18

And a [Colheita?] from a Tawny.

58:20

And when you see a year — a 10-year-old port, it's like in whiskey, it means the youngest.

58:25

It's 10 years.

58:28

[I tasted,] about a year ago, with one winemaker in Portugal, a 40-year-old port, which means the youngest is 40-year-old, which he told me that his grandfather started and he he bottled.

58:38

And throughout, him and his father made all the wines together.

58:42

Super, super complex, super approachable, very silky, very smooth, a little bit sweet.

58:49

Um so that's that's like a big misconception about uh about port and uh

58:56

Hopefully there's gonna be more and more port uh port uh productions and there's a nice scene of white and rosé ports

59:05

In Portugal.

59:07

So they have sweet whites like Moscatos.

59:09

Yep.

59:10

Or or sweet.

59:10

And and a rosé port.

59:13

Interesting.

59:14

Very interesting.

59:15

Not a huge fan of it, but I'm also not a huge fan of rosé in general.

59:19

You personally —

59:20

You've personally opened my eyes to Portugal because I'll tell you, you know, um

59:27

My family is not uh is not from America.

59:31

My family was from all over all over the world.

59:34

And the people who were the really biggest mamzerim, to be quite honest, were the Portuguese.

59:41

Every you know and I even follow Spanish-Portuguese tefillah and what have you.

59:46

But the the Portuguese — a lot of my family, from India, were originally Iraqi.

59:52

And the Portuguese, whenever they came to a port, because that's they were sailors, they would they would cause the Jews absolute grief.

01:00:04

They were always the the

01:00:06

the biggest anti-Semites, no matter where they went in the world.

01:00:10

And because of that, I really have cared less about Portugal.

01:00:14

Uh and I know some amazing wines come from Portugal, but I just haven't I haven't been willing to even taste them.

01:00:22

So

01:00:22

Today.

01:00:24

Today I'd say that I I travel a lot around the world.

01:00:27

Yep.

01:00:27

Um I think the least anti-Semitism that I feel, I'm not saying

01:00:33

I got really approached, because yeah I didn't really experience anyone like yelling at me like I'm a Jew, but there's — and when you walk in Amsterdam for example you feel it you see all those Palestinian flags, you see um

01:00:43

Uh even in New York sometimes you can feel it more.

01:00:46

In Portugal, everywhere I took — everyone I told that I'm in the army has to see pictures.

01:00:51

Has to uh always used to text me, how are you doing?

01:00:54

Are you doing good?

01:00:56

I I went once with Ariel Beer to Portugal and he and and they went crazy about him.

01:01:01

They they saw him and they always asked me, how's he doing?

01:01:04

Um once, once and like r like not far after October 7th, I was outside the University of Porto.

01:01:13

Um there's a very like huge university which uh and there was like three students.

01:01:19

That started like standing there and like yelling free Palestine or something like that and and so many people started yelling back at them.

01:01:26

So locals

01:01:27

Yeah.

01:01:28

So so I really like that's that for me it's a very safe place.

01:01:32

I think it's the most touristically missed place in in in Europe.

01:01:36

Portugal is so much different.

01:01:38

The climate

01:01:39

the weather, the people are way more simple, um, and and and very nice in general and scenery is beautiful and if you love wine

01:01:49

You see vineyards and wineries absolutely every, every, everywhere.

01:01:54

Every small kiosk sells wine by the glass.

01:01:57

Wow.

01:01:59

Awesome.

01:02:00

Thank you really so much for being on The Kosher Terroir with me.

01:02:03

Pleasure.

01:02:08

We can talk for hours.

01:02:09

You know, I I just want to get one last thing out of you.

01:02:12

Um tell me a little bit about which wines you bring in.

01:02:17

Can you go through the — Because I want you to be able to market something here a little bit.

01:02:23

I'm sorry.

01:02:24

Um so that's just a service for the public.

01:02:26

But um so we have we have a I'd say a classic um

01:02:32

Bordeaux that we bring in just because we needed something at that price point.

01:02:36

So we have uh it's called Marquis de Bois [?].

01:02:38

Okay.

01:02:39

Um it's a

01:02:40

young Bordeaux blend and we have a uh semi-sweet uh semi Sauvignon Blanc, which is very approachable and works amazingly in the Russian community somehow.

01:02:51

Um and we're bringing yeah it's a best seller there and uh we're bringing in an IGP Atlantique

01:02:59

very soon, which is kind of an up-and-coming uh uh appellation from from the Bordeaux region because it's very flexible.

01:03:08

Okay, they're allowed to have uh uh nine percent alcohol in their wine, they're allowed to have about fifteen to twenty grape varieties there.

01:03:16

The style is a way more approachable and it's still like an uh official AOC.

01:03:20

That's the French way to

01:03:23

adapt to what's happening and also giving winemakers a way to approach.

01:03:26

So we're bringing uh about three wines from there uh in the next few months.

01:03:31

We are um we have our Essa wines by Josh that we bring in exclusive for Is- uh

01:03:38

uh exclusive for Israel, the Pinot Noir and the Nebbiolo, and then we have the Acacia Chenin [?], which is a fantastic white wine.

01:03:45

We have uh Cabernet Franc, a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon and Malbec, and the reserve Cabernet Sauvignon.

01:03:52

We're having uh coming in very soon from Portugal a brand called Cano [?], which we're gonna have also Vinho Verdes coming in from there, quite a few blends, and uh Douro Valley dry wine.

01:04:06

We have in production in Lisbon region in Portugal a beautiful red blend and a white blend that would be very much approachable in price and entry level

01:04:17

That's gonna be coming coming in soon.

01:04:20

Um we have the Odd Wires Creek [?] from New Zealand.

01:04:24

So we have the Odd Wires Creek as a single vineyard, which doesn't exist anywhere in the world besides Israel.

01:04:29

We picked

01:04:30

single vineyard to make a very very crisp and clean and higher-level New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc.

01:04:35

And then we have the Harikoa Wai [?], which is the more approachable, accessible New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc.

01:04:42

We have the

01:04:43

Arco Roble, the Arco de Curiel from uh Ribera del Duero, which is the only kosher Ribera del Duero out there right now.

01:04:51

That's uh

01:04:52

The region where Tempranillo comes from, that's a real Tempranillo.

01:04:56

This wine is uh very appreciated

01:05:00

uh worldwide, it also got 95 in Decanter now, and uh it's — we're having also the Roble, the one that was aged for four months

01:05:09

in oak and another eight months at the winery, and we're gonna have the uh Crianza and Reserva coming in in the next few years.

01:05:16

And that's a great story of a winemaker, Spanish winemaker in his 70s,

01:05:21

that after October 7 wanted to see how he could contribute to the Jewish world.

01:05:26

Wow.

01:05:26

He didn't know how, so then he understood that he could — uh the Jews drink kosher wine, so he turned the entire winery kosher.

01:05:35

And there's there's like small stories that people don't even know of.

01:05:38

But there are some people.

01:05:44

[inaudible] um of uh the politics coming back.

01:05:48

Right.

01:05:49

And then you've got people who feel like this

01:05:52

They should really be supported in every way possible.

01:05:54

A hundred percent.

01:05:55

That's why I I say it every time I talk about this winery because I think he's not he's not running around telling it it's a feeling that the guy had

01:06:03

And he took action.

01:06:04

And his way the only way that he knows, he knows how to make wine.

01:06:07

Right.

01:06:07

So the entire winery is kosher.

01:06:10

It's not just a small kosher run.

01:06:11

It's not.

01:06:12

The entire winery is kosher.

01:06:14

So he's he's

01:06:15

probably the second kosher winery there.

01:06:20

Um that's completely kosher yes.

01:06:24

Elvi — Elvi and the S—

01:06:25

Elvi and them.

01:06:26

Right.

01:06:26

There's small other kosher runs in the area.

01:06:28

There are other kosher runs in wineries.

01:06:29

I mean you've got um what you call it.

01:06:32

Yeah, you have the you have a new uh a new um you you have quite a few.

01:06:36

You have uh Actually no, I'm sorry, because Ramón Cardova it's not uh Ramón Cardova is produced in Ramón Bilbao, it's just a brand.

01:06:44

Yeah

01:06:44

Ramón Bilbao is one of the biggest wineries in Rioja.

01:06:48

Um so we have we have that, we have um

01:06:53

Coming in also from Veneto.

01:06:56

Very soon we're gonna have a Pinot Grigio from Veneto, uh Cabernet del Veneto and Merlot del Veneto, and an Amarone

01:07:05

Wow.

01:07:05

That I'm hoping to bottle very soon.

01:07:07

Oh, and a prosecco that I'm making in uh in Veneto.

01:07:10

Okay.

01:07:11

Um that's also those coming in the next three, four months, hopefully, all of those wines.

01:07:15

um and starting production in Greece this week.

01:07:21

Okay.

01:07:22

Of uh Assyrtiko.

01:07:24

I was gonna say it.

01:07:25

You're making an Assyrtiko?

01:07:26

Wow.

01:07:27

Yeah, yeah.

01:07:27

Really hope that we're gonna get there like

01:07:29

We'll be able to make it well in time, but it should be it should start this week.

01:07:33

An Assyrtiko and then also uh uh an uh another red from a native variety.

01:07:41

What about Cyprus?

01:07:42

You making anything in Cyprus yet?

01:07:44

No, not yet.

01:07:45

Not yet.

01:07:46

There's I tried to make something in Cyprus, but uh I I think I need to do it gradually and and in Greece interests me a lot more than than Cyprus, and

01:07:56

Our our Cypriot uh uh audience should forgive me, but no.

01:08:00

They have so many — I think Greece has so much to discover

01:08:04

Like there's so much to discover in Greece and especially in the kosher — in kosher world, there's like really nothing and it's very, very, very like for us

01:08:14

Like the the style, the flavors, and they have native grape varieties, which I always try to do.

01:08:19

Look for, right.

01:08:21

Um pretty much I think that's that's we covered what we're doing this year and what we have here.

01:08:27

So all of this is being imported into Israel.

01:08:30

Right.

01:08:31

Do you import to — do you you know bring in the things into the United States and to other places?

01:08:36

Um

01:08:37

So I had previously sold some of the Portuguese wine that I used to make and and Solar das Bouças from Vinho Verde is selling in the US.

01:08:46

And I uh Essa obviously, through Josh, is sold uh um by Royal in the US, and the rest of the wines as of now

01:08:57

I'm still in contact with a few distributors there and we're still trying to find the the right fit for the wines, but hopefully in the next few months also at least at least some of them will reach the market there.

01:09:08

Very cool.

01:09:09

But our our for now our main market is right here in Israel.

01:09:12

I love it.

01:09:14

I love it.

01:09:17

You've just uh you've just cultivated a new consumer um for your wines.

01:09:23

So awesome, awesome.

01:09:25

Because normally I would walk past the Portuguese, I'm telling you.

01:09:28

I see Portuguese wines all over and and I just walk right past them.

01:09:31

I won't even touch them.

01:09:33

And now um I will.

01:09:35

I will explore it.

01:09:37

I I really look forward.

01:09:38

Very cool.

01:09:40

Pleasure.

01:09:40

Thank you so much for having me.

01:09:52

This is Simon Jacob again, your host of today's episode of The Kosher Terroir.

01:09:57

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01:10:05

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01:10:19

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