## 00:00 – Introduction

**SIMON JACOB**

Welcome to **The Kosher Terroir**. I'm Simon Jacob, your host, coming to you from Jerusalem.

Before we begin, wherever you are in the world, please take a moment to pray for the safe return of all our soldiers.

If you're driving, keep your eyes on the road. If you're relaxing at home, sit back and enjoy this special episode, recorded during the Three Weeks.

Picture a glass storefront on Agrippas Street in Jerusalem, just steps away from the bustling Mahane Yehuda Market.

Thousands of people pass that window every day. Phones in hand. Eyes down. Hardly anyone notices what's behind the glass.

But if you stop for just a moment and look inside, you'll see something extraordinary.

Two magnificent copper stills dominate the room.

On one side stands a tall column still—sleek, precise, and engineered for purity.

Beside it sits a beautiful traditional copper pot still, its graceful swan neck arching overhead.

Together they stand like sentries.

Because behind that window is something Jerusalem has never had during its more than 3,000-year history:

A distillery.

The first distillery in the history of Jerusalem.

Welcome back to **The Kosher Terroir**.

Today we're pouring something a little different.

On this podcast we often talk about grapes, vineyards, and terroir—about how a place ultimately finds its way into the glass.

Today we follow that same idea one step further.

Past fermentation.

Into distillation.

My guest is Michael Ginosar, CEO of Thinkers Distillery—a Jerusalem distillery built around a philosophy every bit as thoughtful as the spirits it produces.

Their motto is **"Spirits Furthered."**

Around the neck of every bottle appears a quotation from **Pirkei Avot**:

> "Who is wise? One who learns from every person."

How often does a bottle of vodka quote the Mishnah?

Those two stills displayed in their front window are not there simply for decoration.

The column still represents precision and purity.

The pot still represents character and soul.

At Thinkers Distillery, both matter equally.

The stories behind these spirits are just as fascinating.

A vodka distilled from premium wheat grown in France's Champagne region and blended with water literally harvested from the air over Jerusalem.

A gin infused with strawberries and rose petals.

A bourbon called **Dew of Bedolach**, inspired by the manna that descended with the morning dew during the Israelites' journey through the wilderness.

Distilled in America.

Aged while crossing the Atlantic Ocean.

Then matured for more than three years beside the Mediterranean Sea in Haifa.

Today we'll explore where Thinkers began...

...the philosophy behind its name...

...what makes its spirits unique...

...how you build a world-class distillery in a city that endured both a global pandemic and a war...

...and where Michael hopes to take the company in the years ahead.

So pour yourself something you enjoy...

settle in...

and let's think—and drink—together.

Michael Ginosar...

welcome to **The Kosher Terroir**.

How are you today?

---

## 04:09 – Michael Ginosar's Background

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

I'm doing well.

Thanks for having me.

I actually arrived yesterday.

I'm back and forth between Israel and the United States quite a bit.

I've been involved with Thinkers since its inception, and from the very beginning our vision included the American market.

Israel is obviously very important to us—we have to succeed here—but we always knew that exporting would eventually become a major focus.

We started exporting about three years ago.

The American market works very differently from Israel.

Here, one distributor can handle importing, warehousing, marketing, and distribution.

In the United States everything works through the three-tier system.

Distributors there primarily move product.

The responsibility for building the brand still belongs to the producer.

Eventually we realized that no one was going to tell our story better than we could ourselves.

One of my partners remains here in Jerusalem managing operations while I'm frequently in the United States supporting our distributors and helping build the brand.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

Before we continue, let me properly introduce you.

Your last name is pronounced...

Ginosar?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Exactly.

Although if "Ginosaur" helps people remember it, I won't complain.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

That's actually not a bad piece of marketing.

Were you born here in Israel?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

No.

I was born in California.

My mother is American and my father is Israeli.

He was working for Intel in San Jose when I was born.

We made aliyah when I was still very young, so I grew up in Israel.

Most of my extended family still lives in the United States, so I've always gone back and forth between the two countries.

---

## 06:02 – The Birth of Thinkers Distillery

**SIMON JACOB**

Let's go back to the beginning.

I love both the name *Thinkers* and the philosophy behind it.

How did the company come into existence?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

The idea really began around 2018.

We were a group of people coming from very different backgrounds.

I'd already spent close to twenty years in the spirits industry.

Some of the other founders came from completely different fields.

But we all shared one idea.

We wanted to create an Israeli spirits company that wasn't built as a novelty.

We didn't want to make something simply because it came from Israel.

We wanted to produce spirits that could stand beside the finest premium spirits anywhere in the world.

We looked at what had happened in Israeli wine over the last few decades.

Israeli wineries had evolved into producers of truly world-class wines.

At the same time, Israel had become known worldwide as the Startup Nation.

Our question was:

Could we combine those two worlds?

That idea eventually became Thinkers.

Israel isn't the obvious place to build a distillery.

We don't have Scotland's water.

We don't have Kentucky's bourbon tradition.

We don't have vast grain fields.

But what Israel does have is extraordinary expertise in chemistry...

technology...

engineering...

and innovation.

Our philosophy was simple:

If we couldn't compete by geography...

we would compete through knowledge.

That became the foundation of everything we do.

When we looked at the Israeli spirits market back then, most products were fairly basic.

There wasn't much emphasis on premium or super-premium spirits.

Yet worldwide, that's exactly where the industry was heading.

Consumers wanted exceptional quality.

Exceptional presentation.

Exceptional stories.

That was the opportunity we saw.

Before Thinkers, I'd already spent years immersed in the spirits world.

One of my earliest projects was producing a handcrafted arak here in Jerusalem called **Arak Yerushalmi**.

That experience pulled me completely into the spirits industry.

Later I worked with a major importer, helped develop additional brands, including Van Gogh Vodka in Israel, and gradually built the experience that eventually led to Thinkers.

What always fascinated me was one question:

How do we create something truly exceptional...

and take it from Israel to the rest of the world?

## 10:06 – Building a World-Class Israeli Distillery

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

From the beginning, our goal was never simply to produce spirits in Israel.

We wanted to create products that could compete with the finest premium spirits anywhere in the world.

As we're sitting here today, we're inside our visitor center in Mahane Yehuda Market.

It has a boutique feel, but our ambitions are anything but small.

Every decision—from the liquid itself, to the production process, to the packaging—has been made with one goal in mind:

To create a super-premium spirit that proudly comes from Israel.

---

## 10:36 – The Founders

**SIMON JACOB**

Tell me a little about the founders.

You're one of them?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Yes.

I'm one of the founding partners.

The ownership structure has evolved over the years.

Originally there were two principal founders, and each brought in additional investors.

For the first several years they worked together as partners.

More recently, one of the original founders acquired the other's shares, so today the company is primarily owned by **Avi Avram Ingber**.

Our legal company name is **The Israeli Distilling Company**.

I've been involved since the very beginning, working alongside both founders throughout the journey.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

And what exactly is your specialty?

Are you a distiller?

---

## 11:42 – Learning the Craft

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

I've certainly learned to become one.

After spending more than twenty years in the spirits industry, you inevitably absorb an enormous amount of knowledge.

One of the things I love most about this industry is how willing people are to share information.

Of course, there are formal distilling schools and technical training.

But just as important is the knowledge passed from one distiller to another.

People share ideas about filtration...

base spirits...

fermentation...

equipment...

and countless small process improvements.

A great deal of what we've learned has come through years of experimentation.

Trial and error.

Constant refinement.

One word you'll find on every Thinkers bottle is **"Furthered."**

In fact, we've trademarked that word.

It represents our philosophy.

We're never satisfied.

If we discover a better process tomorrow than the one we're using today...

we'll change.

The objective isn't protecting some mythical family recipe that's been hidden away for generations.

Our goal is simple:

How can we make the spirit even better?

Every improvement matters.

That's why we're constantly refining our methods while always keeping our attention on what matters most—

the liquid itself.

---

## 13:20 – Two Stills, One Philosophy

**SIMON JACOB**

I've visited here several times.

Only today did I suddenly notice something that surprised me.

You don't just have one still.

You have both.

A traditional pot still...

and a column still.

That really caught my attention.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Exactly.

The entire still system was custom-designed specifically for this location.

People sometimes forget where we are.

We're in the middle of Jerusalem.

There are apartments directly above us.

That creates all kinds of practical limitations—

how much alcohol we can store...

how much production we can do...

and how we configure the equipment.

So we designed a system that combines both types of still.

If we want to produce whisky or brandy with more character, we can work through the traditional copper pot still.

For vodka and gin, where purity and precision are essential, we primarily use the column still.

From day one we wanted Thinkers to be more than a vodka distillery...

or more than a whisky distillery.

We wanted the flexibility to produce exceptional spirits across multiple categories.

At the end of the day, distilling is chemistry.

It's process.

Whether you're producing vodka, gin, bourbon, rum, or something else, the underlying science is remarkably similar.

Designing the distillery this way gives us tremendous flexibility for the future.

---

## 14:53 – Wine and Spirits

**SIMON JACOB**

It's interesting.

Most people know me through wine.

Wine is fundamentally about fermentation.

Distilling begins with fermentation...

and then takes you one step further.

I've always thought of that as a fascinating relationship.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

I often describe wineries as our cousins.

We're members of the same family—

we just do different jobs.

Fermentation is absolutely critical in both industries.

The difference is what comes afterward.

For wineries, fermentation is where much of the artistry happens.

For distilleries, that's only part of the journey.

Once distillation is complete, another entire world opens up.

Filtration.

Water.

Blending.

How and when the water is introduced.

How long the spirit rests before bottling.

Those decisions have a tremendous influence on the final character of the spirit.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

I have to admit, I'd never really thought about that side of the process before.

We're definitely coming back to that.

But first...

let's go back to the beginning.

---

## 15:47 – Why Jerusalem?

**SIMON JACOB**

Jerusalem has existed for more than three thousand years.

Yet until recently it had never had a commercial distillery.

How did you decide that this was the place?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Well...

it certainly helped that we already lived here.

But there was much more behind the decision.

When you're building a premium spirits brand, there are three things you absolutely need just to earn the right to compete.

First...

you need outstanding liquid.

Without exceptional spirits, nothing else matters.

Second...

you need exceptional packaging.

The bottle...

the label...

the design...

everything contributes to the experience.

And third—

perhaps the most overlooked—

you need a compelling story.

People don't simply buy a bottle.

They buy the narrative that comes with it.

The liquid...

the packaging...

and the story all have to reinforce one another.

That narrative existed from the very beginning.

Mahane Yehuda Market has become one of Jerusalem's great culinary destinations.

Outstanding restaurants.

Cocktail bars.

Chefs.

Food culture.

People come here looking for memorable experiences.

We wanted the distillery to become part of that experience.

Could we have built a much larger facility somewhere outside Jerusalem?

Absolutely.

It would almost certainly have been less expensive.

But we'd have lost something much more valuable.

Here, visitors can walk in directly from the market.

They can see the stills.

Watch production.

Taste the spirits.

Become part of the story.

Jerusalem gives Thinkers something no other city could.

It isn't simply where we produce our spirits.

It's part of who we are.

---

## 18:03 – Why "Thinkers"?

**SIMON JACOB**

I want to come back to something you mentioned earlier—

your motto, *"Spirits Furthered."*

One thing that struck me about Thinkers is that it doesn't sound like a traditional spirits company.

There are no mountains...

no Scottish castles...

no family crest...

no founder's surname on the label.

Instead, the brand is simply called **Thinkers**.

I grew up in the IBM world.

Every desk had a little sign that simply read:

**THINK.**

Years later Apple launched its famous campaign:

**Think Different.**

So the word *think* has always resonated with me.

When I first encountered the name **Thinkers**, I immediately loved it.

Where did that philosophy come from?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

It's funny.

We don't think of ourselves as *the* thinkers.

If we were truly that smart...

we probably wouldn't have opened Jerusalem's first distillery just one week before the COVID lockdown.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

I was actually going to ask you about that.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Those were interesting days.

But the philosophy behind the name goes much deeper.

One of the quotations you'll find on every bottle comes from **Pirkei Avot**:

> "Who is wise? One who learns from every person."

That sentence captures exactly what we're trying to build.

We're not pretending that we've inherited some secret recipe that's been hidden away for centuries.

We don't have that story.

Our story is different.

It's the story of Israel.

It's the story of innovation.

Of technology.

Of chemistry.

Of constantly learning.

We're fortunate to live in a country filled with extraordinary scientists, engineers and entrepreneurs.

Why shouldn't that same mindset exist in the spirits industry?

Every process we use...

every refinement we discover...

every improvement we make...

comes from learning.

From questioning.

From experimenting.

That's what "Thinkers" represents.

It's also why the name fits Jerusalem so naturally.

This is a city built on thousands of years of scholarship.

Learning is part of its identity.

We're simply bringing that philosophy into distilling.

And we recognize something else.

We didn't invent distillation.

The basic principles are centuries old.

Heating alcohol...

capturing vapor...

condensing it—

that hasn't changed very much.

What has changed is our understanding.

Today we understand chemistry...

we understand the periodic table...

we understand precision.

That knowledge allows us to make better spirits than people could have imagined centuries ago.

That's the story we're trying to tell.

---

## 20:49 – Water from the Air

**SIMON JACOB**

That really sounds like Startup Nation thinking.

Let's talk about one of the most fascinating examples.

Your water.

Most people would assume you're using Jerusalem municipal water.

You're not.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

No.

At least not directly.

Until the municipality figures out how to tax the air...

we're still safe.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

Give them time.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Exactly.

About sixty percent of every bottle of vodka or gin is water.

People often underestimate how important that is.

Water has flavor.

It contains minerals.

Those minerals influence the finished spirit.

If I've spent enormous effort selecting the finest wheat...

perfecting distillation...

carefully controlling filtration...

why would I then introduce water whose mineral composition changes from day to day?

Instead...

we harvest water directly from the atmosphere.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

Literally from the air?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Exactly.

We use atmospheric water generators.

The equipment pulls humidity from Jerusalem's air.

That moisture condenses into exceptionally pure water.

The water is then collected and stored before becoming part of our production process.

It's certainly an unusual approach...

and people enjoy the story...

but for us the real advantage is control.

I know precisely what is going into every batch.

If I want specific mineral content...

I can create it.

If I want absolute neutrality...

I can achieve that as well.

The important thing is consistency.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

How much water can you actually produce that way?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

That depends entirely on humidity.

Ironically, if our distillery were located in Tel Aviv...

we'd harvest considerably more water because the humidity is much higher.

Jerusalem is much drier.

Even so, the system runs continuously throughout the year.

Summer naturally produces more water.

Winter produces less.

As we continue to grow, we'll expand our capacity through additional systems and additional water sources.

But harvesting atmospheric water remains one of the defining parts of what we do.

The important thing isn't simply that the water comes from the air.

It's that I can control every aspect of it.

That consistency is incredibly valuable.

---

## 23:33 – Why Water Matters

**SIMON JACOB**

It's actually very similar to Coca-Cola.

People discovered years ago that Coke tasted different in different countries because the local water was different.

Eventually they began standardizing their water everywhere.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Exactly.

Water is one of the most important ingredients.

Here's a great Jerusalem example.

You know **Ima Restaurant**, right around the corner?

---

**SIMON JACOB**

Of course.

It's been there for as long as I can remember.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

They're famous for their kubbeh.

Years ago they decided to open another restaurant in Tel Aviv.

They used the same recipes...

the same cooks...

the same ingredients...

the same techniques.

Everything should have tasted identical.

But it didn't.

They kept trying to understand why.

Eventually they realized it was simply the water.

Jerusalem water and Tel Aviv water are different.

That alone changed the flavor of the food.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

I'd never heard that story.

That's fascinating.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

It's exactly the same principle here.

People expect a bottle they buy today to taste exactly like the one they buy next year.

Wine is different.

Every vintage naturally changes.

Spirits don't have that luxury.

Consistency is part of the promise.

---

## 24:41 – Why Wheat from Champagne?

**SIMON JACOB**

Let's talk about another decision that surprised me.

Your vodka begins with soft winter wheat grown in France's Champagne region.

That's an extraordinary level of attention to detail.

Why France?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

For exactly the same reason great vineyards exist where they do.

Terroir.

The soil.

The climate.

The rainfall.

The growing conditions.

The French produce remarkable bread and remarkable pastries for good reason.

Their wheat is exceptional.

If I plant exactly the same variety of wheat in France...

Ukraine...

Israel...

or the United Kingdom...

I'll get four different flavor profiles.

For vodka that's critically important because we don't add botanicals or other flavors afterward.

Everything comes from the grain itself.

Our vodka is designed to be a **sipping vodka**.

There's no added sugar.

The subtle sweetness comes naturally from the wheat.

Interestingly...

for our gin we use exactly the same wheat variety—

but grown in the United Kingdom.

That grain produces a softer, more restrained profile.

For gin that's ideal because I don't want the wheat competing with the botanicals.

In vodka...

the wheat is the star.

In gin...

it's part of the supporting cast.

At the end of the day, the finished spirit can never be better than the raw materials you begin with.

That's where quality starts.

---

## 26:35 – Could Thinkers One Day Use Israeli Wheat?

**SIMON JACOB**

Would you ever consider producing a vodka using Israeli-grown wheat?

Not because it's necessarily better—

but because it would express an Israeli terroir.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Absolutely.

I'm not opposed to that idea at all.

If the finished spirit is exceptional...

then yes.

There are already a few people in Israel experimenting with growing grains specifically for brewing and distilling.

I think that's exciting.

The challenge is that most wheat grown in Israel isn't intended for premium food production.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

Most people assume it's bread wheat.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Actually, most of it isn't.

Only a relatively small percentage is suitable for bread making.

Much of the crop is grown as animal feed.

So today we still rely on imported grain for premium spirits.

That said, if someone can consistently produce outstanding distilling wheat here in Israel, I'd be thrilled.

We're an Israeli company.

The more Israeli ingredients we can responsibly use, the better—

provided they meet the quality we're looking for.

Quality always comes first.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

One reason I ask is because we're beginning to see agave being cultivated in the Negev.

Some people are even talking about an Israeli tequila-style spirit.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Exactly.

There are several interesting projects underway.

Agave actually makes a great deal of sense in the Negev because of the climate.

We'll have to wait a few years to see what kind of quality they're ultimately able to achieve.

Grain is different.

Technically, you can grow almost anything in Israel.

The question isn't whether it's possible.

The question is whether it can be done economically and consistently enough to support commercial production.

Farmers have told me many times:

*"We can grow it.*

*The real question is whether there's enough demand to justify planting it."*

That's the challenge.

---

## 29:31 – Defining Israeli Terroir

**SIMON JACOB**

I know people who grow blueberries in containers because the local soil changes the flavor.

So I understand exactly what you're saying.

What interests me is the idea of creating an authentic Israeli terroir.

Not simply growing ingredients here...

but developing a recognizable Israeli identity in spirits.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

I completely agree.

Wine has already begun that journey.

Today people talk about Israeli appellations.

They discuss regional identity.

Different climates.

Different soils.

Different growing conditions.

I think spirits should eventually develop that same language.

Beer is moving in that direction as well.

We need to define what Israeli terroir means—not only for wine, but for distilled spirits.

That will take years.

Maybe decades.

But that's exciting.

We're building something that doesn't yet exist.

I believe Israeli spirits deserve their own identity.

Not because they're Israeli—

but because they're genuinely excellent.

---

## 30:39 – The Thinkers Product Line

**SIMON JACOB**

Originally you planned two vodkas—

a standard bottling and a higher-proof version.

Has that changed?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

A little.

Originally we intended to release both a 40% and a 52% expression.

The overproof version was fully developed.

Ultimately we decided not to launch it—at least not yet.

It's a wonderful spirit.

But it's also a very niche product.

The market simply wasn't large enough.

We still have the recipe.

It may return someday.

For now our vodka is available in both 700ml and one-liter bottles.

Alongside that we produce three gins...

and, of course, our bourbon.

---

## 31:23 – Three Different Gins

**SIMON JACOB**

Let's talk about those.

Originally there were two.

Now there are three.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

That's right.

We added the third about a year ago.

Today the lineup consists of:

- **Jerusalem Dry**

- **Israeli Sunset**

- **Desert Bloom**

Each represents a different philosophy of gin.

---

### Jerusalem Dry

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Jerusalem Dry is our interpretation of a classic London Dry gin.

We wanted elegance rather than novelty.

Juniper leads the aroma and palate.

Then come bright citrus notes—

lime...

lemon...

and grapefruit peel.

It's crisp.

Dry.

Refined.

The kind of gin that shines in a beautifully made martini.

At 42% alcohol, it has enough body to stand on its own without becoming overpowering.

---

### Israeli Sunset

Israeli Sunset goes in an entirely different direction.

This is what I'd call a modern New World gin.

Among its botanicals are strawberries and rose petals.

Those ingredients soften the juniper and create a more floral, fruit-driven profile.

It's naturally suited to a gin and tonic or more contemporary cocktails.

The idea isn't that one gin is better than the other.

They're simply designed for different occasions.

Wine drinkers understand this immediately.

You don't always reach for the same bottle of wine.

The occasion changes.

The meal changes.

Your mood changes.

Gin is exactly the same.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

That's actually interesting.

If someone asked me my favorite gin...

I'd probably say **Citadelle**.

---

## 33:17 – A Conversation About Citadelle Gin

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

That's an outstanding choice.

Citadelle is produced by Maison Ferrand in Cognac.

Its master distiller, Alexandre Gabriel, is one of the truly remarkable figures in the spirits world.

His story is actually similar to ours in some respects.

He looked at the Cognac business and realized there had to be another path.

So he expanded into rum and gin.

Products like Plantation Rum and Citadelle Gin became world-class in their own right.

What I admire is that he celebrates the character of the Cognac region without simply producing another Cognac.

That's very close to our philosophy.

We're not trying to create "an Israeli spirit" for the sake of saying it's Israeli.

We're trying to create exceptional spirits—

using the best ideas we can find—

while expressing who we are.

Citadelle has definitely been one of the brands I've respected over the years.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

I had no idea.

I learned something today.

That's wonderful.

Now...

let's talk about the bourbon.

---

## 34:46 – Dew of Bedolach Bourbon

**SIMON JACOB**

Let's talk about your bourbon.

I have to tell you, I think it's one of the most fascinating products in your portfolio.

I actually have a bottle sitting at home.

Someone gave it to me before I even knew much about Thinkers.

The spirit is excellent, but what really intrigued me was the name—

**Dew of Bedolach.**

Where did that come from?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

That was really the inspiration of one of our founders.

I'm certainly not a Kabbalah scholar, but the concept behind **Bedolach** has always appealed to me.

The idea is one of harmony—

a moment when many different elements come together perfectly.

That describes this bourbon better than anything else.

This was actually the very first spirit we ever produced.

Before the Jerusalem distillery was operating, we knew that if we wanted to legally produce bourbon, it had to be distilled in the United States.

So we worked with a distillery in Ohio.

We selected the mash bill.

We selected the barrels.

We spent time there developing exactly the profile we wanted.

Once the bourbon entered the barrels...

instead of simply storing them in a warehouse...

we did something rather unusual.

We shipped the barrels across the Atlantic Ocean.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

So the ocean voyage actually became part of the maturation process?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Exactly.

The constant motion...

the temperature changes...

the interaction between the whiskey and the oak—

all of that influences maturation.

We were inspired by Jefferson's Ocean, although they primarily used shorter coastal routes.

We wanted to take the concept much further by allowing the barrels to cross the Atlantic.

When they finally arrived in Israel, the maturation wasn't finished.

Instead of placing them inside a conventional rickhouse, we matured them outdoors near the Mediterranean in Haifa.

The warm days...

cool nights...

salt air...

and dramatic temperature swings accelerated the interaction between the spirit and the barrel.

Yes, we sacrificed a significant amount to the angels' share.

But what remained developed extraordinary concentration and character.

Finally, after maturation, we blended the barrels and bottled the bourbon at 47% ABV.

Every stage of that journey contributed something unique.

That's why I describe it as one harmonious expression.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

So this isn't something you'll necessarily be able to repeat exactly.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Probably not.

At least not in exactly the same way.

This particular release was produced in significant quantity—

roughly forty thousand bottles—

so we'll have inventory for some time.

But whatever comes next will almost certainly evolve.

Perhaps it'll involve distillation here in Jerusalem.

Perhaps another approach entirely.

Thinkers has never been about repeating yesterday.

It's always about moving forward.

---

## 37:42 – The Circle

**SIMON JACOB**

One thing I love is how the name "Dew of Bedolach" connects with the way you're harvesting water from the atmosphere.

Everything seems connected.

Water becomes vapor.

Vapor becomes water again.

The cycle continues.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

That's exactly right.

If you look closely at our packaging, you'll notice our coin emblem.

Two Lions of Jerusalem hold stalks of wheat.

Around them appears the phrase:

> *"To think is to live. To live is to think."*

The circular design is intentional.

Learning never stops.

Improvement never stops.

Neither do we.

---

## 38:27 – What's Next?

**SIMON JACOB**

So are there new products already in development?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Without giving too much away...

yes.

We definitely intend to expand.

Tequila-style spirits have become one of the fastest-growing categories in the world, so naturally we're paying attention to that.

Rum interests us.

Bitters interest us.

We're always looking at opportunities where we think we can genuinely contribute something new.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

I've also noticed wineries beginning to produce vermouth.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

That makes perfect sense.

For wineries, vermouth is a natural extension.

For us, another area I'd personally love to explore someday is brandy.

Israel produces wonderful wine.

It would be fascinating to collaborate with one outstanding winery and create a truly world-class Israeli brandy.

The question is always the same:

Is there a market?

You can make the greatest spirit imaginable...

but if nobody wants to buy it, you've built a hobby instead of a business.

---

## 39:50 – Israeli Distilling

**SIMON JACOB**

Israel suddenly has quite a few distilleries.

Do you see them as competitors?

Or as colleagues?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Definitely colleagues.

The industry is still very small.

Competition isn't really the issue.

Growth is.

I'm fortunate to have good relationships with many of the other distillers around the country.

Everyone benefits if Israeli spirits develop a stronger international reputation.

If together we can demonstrate what Israeli distilling is capable of...

that's good for every one of us.

The more successful distilleries Israel has...

the stronger the category becomes.

---

## 40:38 – Kosher Spirits

**SIMON JACOB**

Most of my audience comes from the kosher wine world.

So naturally questions arise about kosher certification for spirits.

How does that differ from wine?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

I always answer this carefully because I'm not a rabbinic authority.

Personally, I believe kosher certification for grain-based spirits is relatively straightforward.

Our products aren't grape-based.

That's an important distinction.

The complexities that exist in kosher wine don't generally exist with vodka or gin.

Everything we produce is certified kosher.

Of course, I respect every certification agency and every consumer's level of observance.

But technically, spirits present a very different set of considerations than wine.

---

**SIMON JACOB**

It's interesting because beer has recently begun facing some of those same discussions as ingredients become more complicated.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Exactly.

Consumers deserve confidence in what they're purchasing.

People ask us all the time whether our vodka is gluten-free.

Technically, it's distilled from wheat.

But once you've distilled to 96% alcohol, virtually everything—including gluten—is removed.

Still, I don't make medical claims.

I simply explain the production process and allow people to make informed decisions.

---

## 43:44 – Becoming CEO

**SIMON JACOB**

You're now CEO of Thinkers.

What convinced you to devote yourself completely to this company?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

I'm the type of person who commits completely.

Once I believe in something...

I'm all in.

Very early on I realized Thinkers had the potential to become something that could last for generations.

People often enter the spirits business expecting to make a fortune.

That's probably the wrong reason.

There are easier ways to make money.

What keeps people here is passion.

This industry is filled with remarkable people.

I genuinely enjoy coming to work every day.

Being able to spend your life doing something you truly love...

that's a blessing.

---

## 45:32 – The Future of Israeli Spirits

**SIMON JACOB**

Israel now has a growing number of distilleries.

Do you think they're beginning to develop a recognizable identity?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Absolutely.

Some producers focus on highly artisanal spirits.

Others, like us, are focused on internationally recognized categories—

vodka...

gin...

bourbon...

eventually perhaps rum or tequila-style spirits.

They're simply different approaches.

Neither is better.

The important thing is that together we're creating an Israeli spirits industry.

That's something that barely existed a decade ago.

---

## 48:35 – Looking Ahead

**SIMON JACOB**

Where do you hope Thinkers will be ten years from now?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

I want Thinkers to become one of the world's respected premium spirits brands.

Some people hear that and think it's unrealistic.

I don't.

We've already proven that Israeli spirits can compete internationally.

When our vodka won Double Gold at the San Francisco World Spirits Competition the very first time we entered...

that told us something important.

If you combine exceptional liquid...

exceptional presentation...

and a compelling story...

then the rest becomes execution.

Marketing.

Distribution.

Persistence.

Ten years from now I want to see Thinkers on shelves around the world—

restaurants...

retail stores...

duty-free shops...

everywhere premium spirits are sold.

That's the vision.

---

## 50:51 – Changing Drinking Habits

**SIMON JACOB**

The wine industry is worried that younger consumers are drinking less.

Do you see the same thing happening in spirits?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

I think the situation is more complicated.

Some people point to wellness trends.

Others point to Ozempic.

Others point to cannabis beverages.

The market is definitely evolving.

But alcohol has been part of human civilization for thousands of years.

Consumption changes.

Categories change.

Preferences change.

I don't believe quality spirits are disappearing.

Consumers are simply looking for different experiences.

---

## 54:25 – One Bottle Everyone Should Try

**SIMON JACOB**

If listeners only try one Thinkers product...

which would you recommend?

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Our vodka.

Without hesitation.

Many people think they don't like vodka because of one bad experience years ago.

We designed ours to be enjoyed neat.

It's smooth.

Elegant.

Subtle.

A true sipping vodka.

That's the bottle I'd encourage everyone to discover.

---

## Closing

**SIMON JACOB**

Michael...

thank you.

This has been a fascinating conversation.

Congratulations on what you've built.

I look forward to watching Thinkers continue to grow.

---

**MICHAEL GINOSAR**

Thank you.

It's been a real pleasure.

---

## Outro

**SIMON JACOB**

This is Simon Jacob, your host of **The Kosher Terroir**.

If you enjoyed today's conversation, please subscribe through your favorite podcast platform so you'll be notified whenever a new episode is released.

And if you're new to *The Kosher Terroir*, I invite you to explore our growing library of conversations celebrating the people, places, history, and craftsmanship behind the world of kosher wine and spirits.

Thank you for listening.

Until next time...

L'chaim.