Jay Buchsbaum Podcast Passover 2026

[00:00:00] S. Simon Jacob: Welcome to The Kosher Terroir. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, no matter where you are, please take a moment to pray for the safe return home of all our soldiers. If you're driving in your car, please focus on the road ahead. If you're relaxing at home, please open a delicious bottle of kosher wine and pour a glass, sit back, and relax.

[00:00:35] S. Simon Jacob: Welcome back to The Kosher Terroir. And today, we are tackling the biggest night of the year for kosher wine: the Passover Seder. Now, we all know the drill. Four cups of wine, reclining to the left, and a whole lot of history. But what if I told you there is a fifth cup we need to be talking about? That's right. Today, we are unlocking the mystery, the history, and the Halachic debate behind the Five Cups of the Seder. And there is absolutely no one better on earth to guide us through this than my guest today.

[00:01:10] S. Simon Jacob: I am thrilled to welcome a true titan of the kosher wine industry: Jay Buchsbaum. As the Director of Wine Education at Royal Wine Corp, Jay has spent decades shaping how we understand, drink, and appreciate kosher wine. He's tasted it all, he's seen every trend, and today, he is taking us on a cup-by-cup journey through the Seder. We're talking terroir, we're talking tradition, and we are talking about how to survive drinking all that wine without the dreaded Passover headache. Whether you're pouring a rare, aged reserve or just trying to figure out what pairs best with Maror, this episode is your ultimate guide. Jay Buchsbaum, welcome to The Kosher Terroir. It is an absolute honor to have you on.

[00:02:00] Jay Buchsbaum: Thank you so much, my dear, dear, dear close wonderful friend. A pleasure. It's a pleasure.

[00:02:08] S. Simon Jacob: Everyone knows about the four cups of wine at the Seder, but today we are talking about five. Jay, for our listeners who might be confused, can you unpack the history and the Halachic debate surrounding the fifth cup?

[00:02:20] Jay Buchsbaum: Yes, it's quite a fascinating debate. Actually, it's a Talmudic debate. And the four cups represent the four times God uses different words for redemption. And the fifth cup is a discussion in the Talmud, a discussion in the Gemara, regarding the word that is used, "And I will deliver you." So the four cups are for redemption, and the fifth cup... some of the opinions in the Gemara are that we should have a fifth cup because He also said, "I'm going to deliver you into the land."

[00:02:50] Jay Buchsbaum: And that fifth cup, however, the Talmud ends with "Teiku," which means it remains a question. And as a result, instead of having a fifth cup—well, some people actually do, and we actually do have a fifth cup in the Kos shel Eliyahu HaNavi, the Cup of Elijah. And that Cup of Elijah, some actually drink a fifth cup. I think the tradition though generally is not to drink a fifth cup, although that doesn't mean you shouldn't have more than one or two or three or four glasses during dinner. But a traditional or sacramental fifth cup is generally not done. But I think it's a beautiful concept.

[00:03:30] Jay Buchsbaum: And I think there are opinions that ever since the establishment of the State of Israel, we have been delivered, and so therefore perhaps we should drink the fifth cup, because that has come to pass as well. By the way, I believe the reason why the Talmud says we may not have a fifth cup is because that deliverance had not taken place yet. You know, so it's very exciting to actually explore that whole concept. I think Rabbi Sacks says that we should not have a fifth cup, even though the Elijah does represent that, because it's something that we should think about—the ultimate redemption—when we actually have the establishment of the Beit HaMikdash, and that's still yet to come. But it's actually a wonderful and fascinating topic.

[00:04:15] S. Simon Jacob: Do you see people tend to buy specific wines, perhaps higher-end or unique bottles, just for the ceremonial pour of Elijah's cup?

[00:04:25] Jay Buchsbaum: So I've heard really there are two general opinions that I've heard on this. One is that we should always try to... well again, this is just kind of a social opinion, it has no basis in Halacha or Jewish tradition, but we should try to pick an Israeli wine for the Kos shel Eliyahu. And the other tradition, and perhaps this is Jay Buchsbaum saying it, but you know, I don't mind being transparent and telling you the truth: we generally don't do an expensive or high-end wine here because it doesn't get drunk! So we would use something more pedestrian, if you will.

[00:05:00] Jay Buchsbaum: If I may, just for fun, our tradition is someone always hits the table. So that some of it comes off the top and we go, "Oh, you see, he's here! He's actually here!" You know.

[00:05:12] S. Simon Jacob: There are many Rabbeim who actually sat at their Seders and looked at the cup, and when they commented that they noticed that it went down a little bit, that Eliyahu had come to their Seder to drink. So you're not wrong in doing that. It's a pretty common thing. It's also a beautiful lesson for the children. Meaning, of course, ultimately they will know the truth as they get older, but as young children they don't forget it if that happens. It's kind of magical.

[00:05:40] Jay Buchsbaum: 100%. That's part of it. It's supposed to be experiential, so it's special. Especially going along with opening the door. So that's also part of it. And it's part of it that it not only provides a Kos for Eliyahu, but now there's a whole protection comment in that Kos shel Eliyahu, as far as that you open the door at a time when you're very vulnerable, and Hakadosh Baruch Hu protects you, Eliyahu HaNavi protects you from that situation.

[00:06:05] S. Simon Jacob: The potential fifth cup aligns with Veheveti, the fifth expression of redemption. Is there a specific bottle from Royal's portfolio that would perfectly capture that feeling of being redeemed?

[00:06:18] Jay Buchsbaum: Yeah, I would say that there are many, but that's why a glass of wine from Israel is more appropriate, because after all, that's where we were redeemed to. And that goes along with the fifth cup, that it is the fifth cup that tells you "And I will take you to." So some really wonderful wines from in and around the Beit HaMikdash area, for example Shiloh, and I say Shiloh not as a brand, as a place. Or the Harey Yehuda, which also surrounds the Beit HaMikdash, and also even wines from the Golan or the Negev. All the places, especially the Negev where the Jews sojourned through. So you have Pinto wines from the Negev. Instead of telling you about one specific wine, I think the more we explore this, the more I think that the correct wine to have is in fact an Israeli wine because it not only speaks to the support of Israel, but it speaks to actually the story of the Exodus and the redemption.

[00:07:20] S. Simon Jacob: So let's get back to the basic Seder wines. Red wine is the tradition, you know, because it matches the remembrance of the blood in Egypt. But a lot of people can't handle heavy-duty red wines. Is there a white or a rosé alternative that you'd suggest for people who struggle with heavy reds?

[00:07:40] Jay Buchsbaum: So I've been taught, and I'm going to do a disclaimer here—ask your local rabbi—but I've been taught that if someone does not like red and prefers white, that's the wine he should have at the Seder. It's more chashuv, it's more important to him, and it's a more celebratory wine to have. Now some people say you should add a few drops of red wine to give it the color that alludes to the blood of the Israelites, the blood that was put on the doorposts, etc. But I would say if you really prefer a white wine, and certainly if heavy reds are too much for you and the experience will not be pleasant, you should defer to whites and lighter reds.

[00:08:20] Jay Buchsbaum: Some lighter reds, and I've talked about this, I did it on my big reveal last Motzei Shabbos: I'm going to start the Seder with a lighter wine, probably a red, but perhaps a white, but certainly, or perhaps a rosé. There are several reasons for that. You're starting the Seder on an empty stomach. Some of the rosés are wonderfully still coming from red grapes, so it has the red hue to it. Some of the rosés from Rubin are wonderful. I love the Shragai rosé from Gush Etzion. There's a great rosé from Har Bracha, from Tura. And even from the Golan Heights, from Matar. But I love the new Reserve Rosé from Herzog... But I'm telling you this Pesach, again, I always tell people that my Seder wines are a game-time decision. I'll go down to my cellar—and you've been there—I go down to my cellar and see, "Hey, this is great," or "No, that's great." But I'm really tending towards a Burgundy. Meaning a French Burgundy, which are all Pinot Noirs in the reds. And they're elegant and still flavorful, but not as heavy. And so that's what I'm going to tend to look for when I get to the Seder on Wednesday night.

[00:09:30] S. Simon Jacob: So for me, the vibe of that first cup is supposed to be bright and crisp and awakening. And I agree with you, I love Pinots. Either the Vitkin Pinot or the new Shiloh Pinot are crazy. And to his credit—and this is important for people to get the message about Amichai and Shiloh—to his credit, he's been trying, he's been making Pinot Noir for years. But he's never released it because he was never satisfied with it. And so it just shows you his attention to detail and quality. So if he made a Pinot Noir, you know that he finally made one that he's very happy with.

[00:10:05] S. Simon Jacob: Okay, let's go to cup two. Which is part of the Maggid, the storytelling part of things. What's your selection for the second cup?

[00:10:15] Jay Buchsbaum: So here it's not only part of the storytelling, but it's also a precursor to the food you're going to eat. And it's going to go into the food that you're going to eat. So I'm going to get a big, bold, rich wine, 'cause the foods are going to be flavorful and wonderful—I know Brenda—and so it's going to be amazing food, and you want something that is going to be rich and flavorful and that will go with it. We're going to have probably two or three different dishes for the main course. So you want something that's big, rich, and wonderful, but you also want something that will go with a wide variety of foods. We're also going to have—fortunately, my daughter-in-law who is allergic to sulfites is not going to be here, but still in all, I'm going to choose, because we have other people that are sensitive, I'm pretty sure at the Seder—so we're going to choose the Be-leaf Cabernet, which has no sulfites added and is also organic.

[00:11:05] Jay Buchsbaum: And I'm probably going to have a single vineyard from Herzog, perhaps even a Yesodot wine. There are very few of them around and it's not cheap. Or perhaps something from Israel's north, maybe a Naveh wine, or... there's one of the hidden gems, Carmel's Limited. So because it's during the storytelling, I wanted to pick a couple of wines that you could tell stories about as part of that experience. So one of them was the Vitkin Shorashim, which is like the whole history of Vitkin. He only makes it in special vintages. And the other one is a crazy wine by Yaacov Oryah called "Me". It's the multiple expressions. It's made out of Chardonnay in Israel. It's 12 or 13 separate fermentations from the same grapes of the same vineyard... Simon, you think you can get me a bottle before Yom Tov?

[00:12:00] S. Simon Jacob: Before Yom Tov? I don't think I can get you a bottle. But I can get you a bottle eventually! I will tell you it sounds exciting, and I really, you know me, I love whites. And I'm pretty sure I'll have a white, there's a really great Chalk Hill Chardonnay. And by the way, the reason I'm looking at Herzog is also along the lines of a journey. I remember the Herzog journey is a long and illustrious and very complex one. I mean, they started making wine in Czechoslovakia more than 100 years ago. So speaking of redemption, let's talk about the third cup, which is really the cup of redemption. So what do you think about the third cup?

[00:12:45] Jay Buchsbaum: Oh my gosh. You know, probably one of the first wines that was brought to the United States that kind of redeemed, if you will, the kosher wine business was Chateau Giscours. There were some Bordeauxs brought in in the 70s, but it was in the early 80s that Chateau Giscours was brought to the United States. And from Israel, especially from Carmel, made by Israel Flamm in 1976 was the first really wonderful Cabernet that came from Carmel. We opened a bottle of that together! And it was the only good bottle in that case because we drank it... I don't know how many years ago, but it was certainly very old, the '76. We drank it probably in the early 2000s. And you know what? It was still okay. It was the only bottle of that case that was, so it was great. It was a wonderful bottle. Yesrael Flamm redeemed, so to speak, the Israeli wine industry by coming up with this really wonderful bottle of wine after many, many years of sacramental basic wine being made in Israel. Now of course, so many wineries and so much has been done since then. But again, when the Herzogs brought in that first Bordeaux in the 70s, but then later on the really great one from Giscours, I think maybe I'll choose one of the better Carmel wines, maybe the Limited, which is a hidden gem from them, or maybe an old Giscours if I can find one in my cellar that's in its 20s or 25 years old. I'm not sure I have any like that, but I'm going to look for it.

[00:14:15] S. Simon Jacob: So for me, because it's redemption, I wanted to stay Israeli with it. So there's two wines that I suggest. Shibi Drori's Gvaot Betuni, which is an indigenous grape in Israel, and I thought it was... it's actually kind of almost like a Pinot when you taste it, it's amazingly like a Pinot. And the other one is Avi Feldstein with his Dabouki. One of the first Daboukis that came out. Both of them are indigenous to Israel and both of them I think are like symbols of that redemption.

[00:14:45] Jay Buchsbaum: You know, I'm glad you picked the Dabouki, especially from Feldstein, because the Dabouki has become a hot topic in the last seven or eight years. It started only about seven or eight years ago that the first Daboukis came out. And since then, a lot of them were just okay, not great. But Avi's Dabouki is great! They're just discovering and exploring how to do the best kind of Dabouki, or how to produce Dabouki in the best way possible, and he's done a great job. In some ways he's redeemed the varietal by making a great Dabouki instead of just an okay one.

[00:15:20] S. Simon Jacob: Okay, onward and upward. Let's go to the fourth cup. And that's the cup of Hallel, praise, or what have you. What do you think about Hallel?

[00:15:30] Jay Buchsbaum: So I've got two categories, and I'll mention specific wines within them. Two categories that I really like for the fourth cup and that I'm intending—again, it's going to be a game-time decision—but that I'm intending to imbibe. One is the category of sweet. And I can't think of a better sweet category wine than Sauternes from France. But there are so many! Or HaGanuz has great sweet reds, and Mountain from Golan has great sweet reds. Portesse is a great sweet red. And then there's a great red, if you're sticking to reds, there's a great sweet red from Portugal, Porto Cordovero. But the other category... this is a celebration, you're really celebrating the Seder and moving forward. In Jewish life, we say Mazel Tov. When we reach a really good part of something happening in our lives, we say Mazel Tov. Gentiles say "Congratulations." What is the difference? Congratulations always indicates congratulations on arrival, on a job well done, on arriving to this point. Mazel Tov means "Good luck." We don't say congratulations, it's always good luck for the future. It's great that you came to this point, but we're looking for Mazel Tov, good luck for the future. And so the second category that I'm picking is sparkling wine. A celebration of what's to come. Here's to what's to come, let's toast to what's to come. And if you're sensitive to the red, I would suggest you get... Rothschild has a beautiful Champagne Rosé, a Blanc de Noirs. And Herzog has a Blanc de Noirs Méthode Champenoise. And I think those could be really great ways to end the Seder. But if you want to end on a sweet note, get something sweet from the sweet category.

[00:17:15] S. Simon Jacob: So I mirror you in that for that last cup, I'm looking for bubbly, and preferably a rosé bubbly. Something like the new Raziel or the Yarden. Both of them are really high quality, high-end wines. And once again, just like I said about the Yesodot earlier... now's the time to pull out the stops! You spent $30-$40 on a pound of matzah, spend the money on the wine if it suits you and if it's something that is going to enhance your Seder.

[00:17:45] S. Simon Jacob: I've got a crazy question for you. About food pairings. So what would you theoretically pair with Maror?

[00:17:55] Jay Buchsbaum: That's a great question. And I thought about it a lot. And I'm going to take two different countries. One Israel and one America. It either should be an old vine Zinfandel—wow, yes!—or a rich and spicy Syrah from Israel. 'Cause you have the nuts and you have the wine and you have the... you know, even though you shake it off, 'cause you don't want it to cover up the matzah flavor, but it has all those aspects of it, that richness to it. You can drink that as much as you shake it off at the Seder. The next day, I know actually people who eat the Charoset. I heard from my mechutan, Chaim Gellert, that the next day for lunch you're supposed to eat the Charoset. I never knew that before. It's actually a Gemara, I understand. But there is a tradition to eat Charoset. I never did. We used it for the Seder, shook it off, and it went by the wayside. But I think it's a great idea. So pull out a great Israeli Syrah or an old vine Zinfandel and I think you'll really enjoy it.

[00:18:50] S. Simon Jacob: Okay, I want to take a specific challenging question because I know that you think about it a lot. Drinking four or five cups of wine is a serious physical feat. As a wine educator, what is your practical advice on ABV (alcohol by volume) and pacing and avoiding the dreaded Passover wine headaches? But also, some people really get into a bad situation because they drink so much wine.

[00:19:15] Jay Buchsbaum: Okay, so first of all, the Halacha... I'm going to tell you in advance, ask your local rabbi. But from what I understand, the Halacha is that you need to drink a revi'is. Some people say that you should finish the first kos, but that's more from what I understand more of a tradition than a Halacha. But certainly a revi'is is enough. And according to Rav Moshe, that's 2.4 ounces. So keep that in mind when you're drinking through your Seder meal. Second, the Seder meal is going to happen over a two to three—some people have a five-hour course of Seder. And so drink slowly throughout. You have time. And so the first glass, if you have a lower ABV, especially on an empty stomach, that makes the most sense. Rosés are in that area, usually Pinot Noirs and certainly French Burgundies are in that area. And now there are wineries in Israel that are focused on that area. So I would really focus on a lower ABV, alcohol by volume, on the first cup. On the second cup, going into the meal, the addition of food actually helps digestion of higher alcohol. Still, you don't want to blow your brains out with a ridiculously 16% alcohol wine. So look for something rich and flavorful, but try to keep it in the 14 to 15 range rather than in the 15 to 16, which many wines because of global warming... are getting into these days. And again, go back to a lighter wine for the third kos, and try to stick to a revi'is close to the third and fourth kos instead of finishing your glasses. So that's my suggestion. There's no rush, you're not going anywhere, you're sleeping it off. There's no work the next day, there's no emails, there's no... so take your time at the Seder, and the longer you take your time at the Seder, the more the wine will be digested over time.

[00:21:00] S. Simon Jacob: Sweet versus dry?

[00:21:03] Jay Buchsbaum: I'm a dry wine drinker, except for the last kos when you might want to end on a sweet note. People talk about... just to give you an idea what I mean by ending on a sweet note: people eat, actually they use this for Rosh Hashanah, but let the wine kind of influence, like you've done all this podcast, let the wine influence the journey. And so that's why I like to end on a sweet note because it's just a memory of sweeter things that have happened and sweeter things to come. But for the meal, if you're going to have... unless you're having something really sweet as a main course, I suggest you stick to drier wines. Fruity perhaps, but drier.

[00:21:40] S. Simon Jacob: Mevushal wines? Anything you want to say about Mevushal?

[00:21:45] Jay Buchsbaum: Yeah, if you're going to have, like I will, a great diversity of people, I think you should have a mix of both. But certainly Mevushal wines, especially today... listen, there are non-kosher wineries and the wine is not kosher, so I don't want to give anybody the impression that just because it's Mevushal it can be kosher. There are non-kosher French and American and other wineries throughout the really great wine-growing regions that are Mevushaling their wines! The Mevushal process, especially with flash détente... but also even regular all-time Mevushaling has got it down to a real science where the wine is not harmed in the traditional way as it has been in the past. So don't be afraid of Mevushal wines. But if you insist on non-Mevushal wines, and some people Halachically say that's better, then I think a blend of both Mevushal and non-Mevushal is a really great way to go.

[00:22:40] S. Simon Jacob: All right, I want to get into a little bit, since you're in the center of Royal Wine, let's talk a little bit about what your few months have been leading up to Pesach. Royal Wine is kind of the backbone of the kosher wine industry. From an insider's perspective, what does it actually take to prepare for the massive logistical hurdle of Pesach globally?

[00:23:00] Jay Buchsbaum: I mean, not to dirty the waters at all, but this is... Pesach to kosher wine is the OND, October, November, December, where all the non-Jewish holidays take place for the rest of the wine business. So there's a guesstimate that 40% of our business, kosher wine business, is actually drunk or done or sold or purchased during these first three months or first four months when Pesach is late in April. So we just gotta make sure that we have the stock. And with what's going on in Eretz Yisroel, in fact all over the world with shipping and so on, we have to be ever more vigilant making sure that we have the wine that we need way in advance of when the holidays and the selling season takes place. And also the variety. Because one of the trends, and perhaps the biggest trend still is, is the consumer walks in to the fine wine kosher retailer and says, "Okay, what's new? What's great? What can I experiment with? What haven't I had so far, Mr. Retailer, who knows me well?" So this idea that people want something new, and also there has been a change this year from prior years. People are being a little bit more careful with their pocketbook. Even if they have the money. And it's because I think the mood, especially because of what's happening to our brethren in Eretz Yisroel... the mood is not as expansive and as happy. And so you know what, I want something new and fresh and interesting and different, but I'm being not as celebratory a mood as I used to be in years past.

[00:24:35] S. Simon Jacob: How about climate? Has climate affected the regions Royal sources from? And is the weather pattern shifting, changing the style of typical Passover Cabernets or what people are drinking?

[00:24:50] Jay Buchsbaum: Yeah, definitely. But I see something afoot so to speak. I see something afoot that's really interesting. And I think people are not talking about it, so I'm going to talk about it. There's no doubt that global warming, no matter how you think it's occurring, whether it's human or natural or whatever, is causing your sugars and grapes to be higher than they ever were at harvest, especially in wine grapes at harvest or at full maturity. As a result, your alcohol is going to be higher. And your opulence is going to be greater. And sometimes that means the wines are richer and fuller and more flavorful and more wonderful than ever. But there is a lot of vineyard management and vineyard growing that has been mitigating that. By shade, by new clones, by different wine grapes that are being grown that have a tendency to mature with less sugars, etc., etc. And I think that what you're going to see is, you're going to see a return to that in a more even aggressive posture. And I hope that by me talking about it, you'll see more wineries taking on that mantle of mitigating the effects of too big a wine. I love big wines, don't misunderstand me. But when it gets too big and it gets into the 15-16 natural percentile—I'm not talking about adding alcohol like they do with ports—I think it gets away from you. But I think it's a natural phenomenon. Right now you have a lot of higher alcohol even from places like France and Italy, and not so much Spain, but France and Italy where it's cooler. Even those wines are tending to be higher in alcohol than they used to be.

[00:26:25] S. Simon Jacob: All right, so you've tasted thousands of kosher wines over your career. Are there any hidden gems at Royal's portfolio right now that you think are absolutely perfect for this year's Seder but fly completely under the radar?

[00:26:40] Jay Buchsbaum: Brand new wine. I've been crowing about this since I tasted it, which was only about six months ago. Is a new Alexander Valley Merlot. For years, everybody's been... one of my favorites has been Alexander Valley Cabernet. But the Alexander Valley Merlot immediately upon release was round and rich and flavorful without being aggressively opulent. But also it had a texture that I thought was just wonderfully mouth-filling. So Alexander Valley Merlot, and it's a great Seder wine too, if you think about it, because of all the things we just said. So that's one. Another hidden gem I mentioned earlier from Israel is Carmel's Limited. Always been a hidden gem. And that's been around for years and years. And people talk about lots of other great wines from great wineries that are truly outstanding, but not under the radar. If you want to look for a wine that's under the radar that's in that strata of those big, beautiful, well-known gems, this is one of them. And then there are some really wonderful people who are looking for entry-level wines. I love a lot of the Teperberg entry-level, simple Cabernet, Chardonnays, really made well by Shiki Rauchberger. A guy who studied in UC Davis, that's where he got his wine degree. But it's 100% Israeli. And also the simple Baron Herzog and the Lineage wines are in the 15 to 25 dollar range that come from estate vineyards, which even by non-kosher California standards is a tremendous, tremendous QPR bargain. Not just good pricing, but a bargain at a really good bottle of wine. So if you're having a large group, and/or your budget demands that you don't spend $50, $60, $80, or $100 on a bottle of wine, those are really go-to wines. And there are a lot of entry-level wines from Israel as well as these wines from California that are just great for that category.

[00:28:40] S. Simon Jacob: You know, one of the ones I would put in that is Be-leaf. The Herzog Be-leaf Cabernet.

[00:28:45] Jay Buchsbaum: Yeah! People think of it as, yeah, that's for people who are like eco-friendly things. I don't know if I like that sort of wine. But it's a wonderful wine, it's just delicious. Not only that, recently it's gotten in the mid-90s with several different publications. Not Jewish! It's gotten in the mid-90s. This is a wine that is organic and no sulfites added. You'd think that, oh, that's for the tree huggers. It's not! It's a wonderful wine, it's just delicious.

[00:29:15] S. Simon Jacob: And the other one that's crazy that I've been tasting recently, and to be quite honest I really was not a fan of, was Castel's La Vie wines. Their new white and red La Vies are really special. Anybody who tasted those in the past and decided "ah, this is not for me," guess what? They're wonderful wines now. They're really special. So, you know, it's interesting you mentioned that 'cause La Vie when it first came out was also a lot less expensive. And as time has gone on and the shekel has gotten stronger and costs of goods have gotten higher, it's grown in price. But it's also, and this is classic Eli Ben Zaken, it's also reached much higher quality levels.

[00:30:00] Jay Buchsbaum: You're 100% right about that.

[00:30:02] S. Simon Jacob: Okay, you mentioned the Buchsbaum table. We have to know: what does your table look like in the Buchsbaum household? Are you pulling out rare dusty library vintages? Are you keeping it surprisingly simple? What did you do last year?

[00:30:15] Jay Buchsbaum: We only have one rule. Anybody who stays—and we have lots of guests, thank God—anybody who comes and stays in our house, there's only one rule. Only one rule in my house. You gotta have fun. If you're not having fun, you don't belong here! Okay? So we're going to have fun with the wine. It's not going to be heavy and serious. For those people who have fun by having a heavy and serious wine, we'll pull out a bottle of wine for them. For those people who want their Moscato, I better get some 'cause I don't have any at home. We're going to have some for them too. And for the kids, we're going to have the sparkling grape juice. So everybody is welcome to come and, Brenda bought all kinds of little frogs and grasshoppers and all kinds of stuff... we're just looking forward to having a fun time. I'm going to bring some wine geeks down to the cellar. They're going to have fun going through it before we sit down for the Seder. So the answer to your question is, it's going to be all over the place. Hopefully in an effort to just make everybody have fun and be happy.

[00:31:15] S. Simon Jacob: Okay. So looking ahead, what's the next big frontier for kosher wines that Royal is exploring? And what should we be looking out for by next Pesach?

[00:31:25] Jay Buchsbaum: There are two big frontiers for Royal wine. If you're talking about for the kosher consumer, it's going to be to get to that 100-point score wine. From California or elsewhere. But certainly from California. And from elsewhere in the world, it's going to be to get one of the real iconic brands to actually agree to make a kosher cuvée. So that's really the two challenges, and we're working towards that. And it's not just us, our competitors are working towards that too, and bless them. We support their efforts and we hope they beat us to the punch or they get there with us. Because that's really where the two frontiers are. Making a kosher cuvée that is a 100-point wine, an iconic cuvée that heretofore has not agreed to make one, and getting the non-kosher consumer to recognize kosher as being a step not equal to, but better than their non-kosher counterparts.

[00:32:20] S. Simon Jacob: Jay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being on The Kosher Terroir with me. I wish you a Chag Kasher V'Sameach to you, your whole family, especially Brenda, and especially my wine partner. You can wish her from me too. And I'm going to tell grandma, 90... she's going to be 99 God willing in April. She's still got all her marbles, she's a little bit shaky in walking and whatever, but Simon, you've been a drinking buddy of hers going back, I don't know, half a dozen years or more! So we'll look forward to that one day soon. Please God. And also to the people at Royal, please regards to everybody there. I really appreciate you guys. You're amazing.

[00:33:05] Jay Buchsbaum: Thank you, thank you, thank you for what you do. The Kosher Terroir is not one of those Facebook, Instagram... it's much more in-depth and much more interesting than any of those short-term things that even I do, like the three-minute to four-minute Big Reveals. This stuff... if you guys out there, and I listen to all of it more often every week, it's really been a wonderful addition especially to those people who really love wine and really want to get an in-depth view of it. So kudos to you and to what you're doing. This is really wonderful stuff.

[00:33:35] S. Simon Jacob: Thank you. Jay, I really look forward to giving you a hug. All right? Love you guys. Chag Kasher V'Sameach.

[00:33:45] S. Simon Jacob: This is Simon Jacob again, your host of today's episode of The Kosher Terroir. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you are new to the Kosher Terroir, please check out our many past episodes.