S. Simon Jacob: 0:09

Welcome to The Kosher Terroir. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we begin, I invite you, wherever you are, to take a quiet moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all our hostages. There's something magical about beginnings, about planting roots in new soil, feeling the wind whip across an open landscape and imagining the wines that will one day be born there. On this episode of The Kosher Terroir, we head north, way north, to Sha'al in the Golan Heights, where the Family Baum Winery has begun an exciting new chapter. Sam and Rivka Baum have left their mark on Israel's wine scene before, but now they've set their sights on a fresh frontier.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:06

We start our visit in their newly planned vineyard rows of young Syrah- Carignan against the backdrop of sweeping Golan skies. The wind is fierce, but so is their vision. From there we head just down the road to their new winery, where dreams are already taking shape. In the barrel we taste early samples of their 2024 vintage wines that mark the very first fruits of this new adventure a blend. And, in a delightful twist, rivka has made sure her own personal wish found a place in the vineyard a Pinot Gris. So there will always be a crisp, refreshing white wine to relax to. It's a story of passion, partnership and starting anew in one of Israel's most promising Okay, so welcome, thank you, and breathe in the promise of what's to come at the family-bound winery in Sha'al.

Sam Baum: 2:26

Okay, so welcome, thank you. Thank you so much for coming.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:31

Thank you for inviting me and here for The Kosher Terroir and myself personally to just see this. It's amazing to be here.

Rivka Baum: 2:40

I think the first podcast you did was just about the brand already. We didn't have anything else. You didn't have anything else didn't have anything.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:45

No, you couldn't even tell me which vineyard you were taking care of.

Sam Baum: 2:54

Okay, so we'll be here for 5-10 minutes, just what we're doing, what the plan is, and then we'll go up to the winery. So welcome to shell. We personally moved here in August. I personally moved here in October, november, because we moved here in the middle of when I was in Gaza and so Rivka came basically by herself in August.

Sam Baum: 3:12

But Shaal has been here since 81. It started in Kurnetra around 78 in Kurnetra, something like that, and they were there near an army base for about two, three years and they moved up to this area, shaal, which is the first step of Tzfonagola. So once you've started here, going up is Har Odem Majdal, shams Khermon, but this is the first step up. So around 750 metres around it off sea level, and Shaal actually stands for Shav Amlad Mato. It's actually a abbreviation which I didn't know, but it's what we actually believe and stand for. So it worked well.

Sam Baum: 3:49

How did I get here to shal? I worked for Castel for five years and Castel used to buy grapes from the Golan, and the grapes that they bought from the Golan were from here, from shal, and so we bought shul. Once they ferment all the grapes from each separate plot. We then taste all the wines, and every year, year on year, the grapes from the shale score the highest. So we decided that if there will come a time and we want to plant a vineyard, this was the grand vin. So this is the grand vin.

Rivka Baum: 4:16

Here and a bit further up.

Sam Baum: 4:17

So this is the place to be. And then, as I started to study the land more and more and more and more this specific area, this pocket of microclimate I realised that this really is what I believe to be the best area in the whole of the Levant. For a few reasons. I'll just go over them very, very briefly. A the ground is very, very deep. There's a lot of earth. It's almost actually regarded as clay because there's 50% of kharsit, which is the brown earth. So that makes it clear, which means it has good water retention. However, it has also a high percentage of basillic rock, which makes it able to be very well drained.

Rivka Baum: 4:53

Everywhere where we are now was once a volcano.

Sam Baum: 4:56

Yeah, exactly.

Rivka Baum: 4:58

Which is the?

Sam Baum: 4:59

basillic magma, so the water can drain off and there's also water retention in the earth which keeps the vines alive. Secondly, the height the difference between the nights and the days. Thirdly, the pH of the soil is lower than anywhere else in Israel. Here the pH of the soil is around 6.8 6.7, which makes all the minerals in the soil much more available to the plant. Once you go up to 7, 7.2, 7.3, which is all you have in the rest of Israel, then the minerals are actually held in the soil and not released to the plants. And the people the people here are fantastic and they make this great agriculture and they're very helpful and that makes it much easier to actually grow anything. They're full of good advice and good pointers and what to do and how to do, and that's the earth, the Tewar, which is Adama Akrim and Adaf, the three people, the three things.

Sam Baum: 5:53

This vineyard, specifically, is being planted according to our blend, so we decided that the blend we're going to grow the varieties is Syrah and Carignac. That's the blend and that's what we've already 80-20. 80-20. Okay, and that that's the blend.

Rivka Baum: 6:02

And that's what we've already 80-20, 80-20.

Sam Baum: 6:05

Okay, and that's what we've already started making now in 2024 80% Syrah, 20% Cabernet.

S. Simon Jacob: 6:09

That's right. I take Carignan.

Sam Baum: 6:10

Carignan, yeah, that's right and 2024 was the first vintage that we did that blend. We took Syrah from here and Carignan we took from Misguer, from Ms Gerrit Baatje, because no one grows in the north of the Golan. Karunyan. They say that maybe in the Duwama Golan, in the south of the Golan, there's someone who grows, but I haven't managed to put my hands on him so I don't know who it is, but we will be for sure the first people to grow it here in the north of the Golan, which in my eyes is fascinating and the right place to grow level, because it's often growing in very, very warm places. It runs away once it ripens, but because here, specifically, the nights are always cold. In fact this morning was like winter, it was like 20 degrees, 19 degrees here, gray, yeah.

Sam Baum: 6:54

Until 11 o'clock, so hopefully it will hold on to its pH level. And the wind? The wind happens every day from 1 o'clock.

S. Simon Jacob: 7:06

It's like this till the evening, every day, every day. You're also surrounded by terroir all of this stuff that can bring in complexity and flavors right, all the different crops that are around so

Rivka Baum: 7:13

we've got the opposite, which is one of the reasons why the fence around you, we're going to be planting it with a cannot, with the rootstock right, and so that if any, any sort of fungi or anything comes at us, we'll see it first outside the vineyard, on the On the fence. On the vines before it gets to our actual vines that we need to Wow.

Sam Baum: 7:30

There's an area in the cauldron.

Rivka Baum: 7:32

Exactly, exactly exactly exactly so.

Sam Baum: 7:34

we're surrounded here by cherries.

S. Simon Jacob: 7:37

So you're the first person to explain to me why people do that, and it makes a whole lot of sense.

Sam Baum: 7:41

Three reasons A it's very pretty, yeah. B there's more than three reasons B it can really stop a fire, because a green fence can really slow down a fire and make it stop from getting to your field.

Rivka Baum: 7:52

So if you look there, that's why he's done that.

Sam Baum: 7:54

He's done that because he's organic, and so whoever sprays there, he doesn't want it to go into his field.

Sam Baum: 7:59

But those are like Firebombs. Those trees are really bad for fires. So here, the green fence. See, the rootstock wakes up two weeks earlier or three weeks earlier than the variety Right. So when we get to the spring and it starts leaving the dormant period, we'll see it first in the rootstock. So I'll now have to make sure I finish all the pruning. It'll give me a great, great indication and, like Rufka said, anything that sort of flows into the field herbicides, pesticides, fungicides we'll see it first around the fence, which is great. And how are we planting? So the carignan? We've decided to do a goblet. That's why it's single. How?

S. Simon Jacob: 8:37

are you going to run cables to support this? Right, because some of it even curves, right? So all the rows, all the rows are actually this way.

Sam Baum: 8:46

Yeah, I see Over the whole vineyard. Okay, but because everything I was very pedantic that everything should be positioned exactly. You can't actually tell which ways the rows always go Right. Right, however, each row is north to south, the home one's there and the canoes there, so you're doing goblet.

Sam Baum: 8:59

Yeah, and this one's this one's going to be goblet. Every vine is going to have a pole, each vine for a pole every metre and a half and three metres. Between the rows and the other side there's a valley in the middle which goes down to Nahar Parash, which is just over the valley, over the Shlucha, and that's actually good, because it will grab anything that sits down to the Nahar and take it down to the Yardenit.

Sam Baum: 9:20

Ok, that's where Sirah's going to be down there and Sirah's going to be on the other side. In the middle, there's nothing. There's six metres between all the different plots.

Rivka Baum: 9:27

There's a big pathway. The way I see it is very much like a big Italian-style long table down there like to do an event.

Sam Baum: 9:34

It's going to be amazing Down in the middle.

Rivka Baum: 9:36

That's the dream, that's the plan.

Sam Baum: 9:48

So I have a friend, friend, the dove, okay uh. Jeselson who has anava, okay, oh yeah, and he we had, we actually had the first harvest.

S. Simon Jacob: 9:53

They had a dinner in the middle of the vineyard with a big table and set, and it was.

Sam Baum: 9:58

There's nothing better, there's just I just heard your podcast that you just did with anava.

S. Simon Jacob: 10:03

I did yeah but the first one. I I didn't even do a podcast about the dinner in the middle of the vineyard, but that was like over the top. It was amazing, wow, wow, absolutely amazing.

Sam Baum: 10:13

Strong little lights.

S. Simon Jacob: 10:15

Wow, and they served crazy food and it was just absolutely gorgeous, amazing. Yeah, you'll have it here. It's such a good.

Sam Baum: 10:23

I mean, you'll have it here, you'll have a good idea to do that and and the other side is going to be almost like in vey, ma'akhal open v, but really open like his shita, okay, completely open, and then the grapes will hang. A lot of shade, but a much shorter. Nof, a much shorter. How do you say it? Like the leaves the whole overhang much shorter. Nof, a much shorter. How do you say it? Like the leaves the whole overhang much shorter. So like one meter, 21 meter. And at the bottom Rivka said there's no way we're not making a white wine.

Rivka Baum: 10:51

This is our point of contention of working together in business.

Sam Baum: 10:54

Every so often it happens.

Rivka Baum: 10:57

So this is my Pinot Gris that's being planted.

S. Simon Jacob: 11:02

I was wondering what you're going to ask for. So that's good.

Rivka Baum: 11:05

Yeah, I want something fresh, acidic, young cut, because the syrah is very well, you'll see there's I'm not telling you to be risky or anything.

S. Simon Jacob: 11:15

There's what's the varietal that's coming from? Uh?

Sam Baum: 11:22

they planted it in a few places. Yes, dalton planted it and he did in Shmulik from Chateau.

S. Simon Jacob: 11:32

Goulain.

Sam Baum: 11:33

Agoura is also planting Assyrtiko. It makes sense to plant it here. They have a lot of problems right now with the vine. Most of them didn't wake up from the winter. Yeah, there's huge problems with the surrogate specifically. So good, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, you got. Yeah, peanut butter is great.

S. Simon Jacob: 11:50

We're taking quite a lot.

Rivka Baum: 11:51

One risk at a time.

Sam Baum: 11:52

Yeah, exactly one risk at a time, only one right.

Rivka Baum: 11:55

I'm thinking about four or five. So yeah, yeah, we're on number, we're thinking about five, but that's okay. It's okay we believe in them.

Sam Baum: 12:02

Yes, yes, all of this will be planted this summer.

Rivka Baum: 12:05

This will be planted in two weeks, that's the plan, so I've got the pipes to run the whole irrigation system he's done on his own.

Sam Baum: 12:13

Yeah, most of it's done by me. I saw you with the, with the pipes and the wakhlim, everything. We very much see our ethos as to be a farm to table, but winery so really only our grapes, only grown by sam, bottled, labeled, given, drunk with from a to z, no uh, winery service and no dicking. This gives 8 000 bottles. That's all I have. It gives 11 000 bottles. That's all I have. That's it.

Rivka Baum: 12:43

I see almost a bit like raising a child. Like there's, you want maximal, maximum manipulation when they need to get their feet off the ground and really putting your input to get what you want. And then after that, once they're ready and the wine's going to be made, then minimal interference, like hopefully you've done what you were supposed to do with them, enough that it's gonna wow that's the way.

Sam Baum: 13:04

So what's that way? This, okay, the german.

Rivka Baum: 13:07

I promise you, it's the first time I've never seen the german, I'm not joking everyone in the goland says, on a clear day you can see the german, but you actually can this this is 357 degrees this way, so the north is just slightly to the right where that huge tree is.

Sam Baum: 13:23

Yeah, that's true north, yep, and true south is that tree on the ridge there just slightly to the right.

Rivka Baum: 13:28

Where that huge?

Sam Baum: 13:29

tree is. That's true north and true south is that tree on the ridge there, the lone one, the lone tree. So that is, if you carry on straight, apart from the minefields, you'll hit the Canary, and if you carry on straight you'll hit Majd al-Sham and the Hermon, and then opposite us is Emek al-Khula and on the other side is all of Ha Galil.

S. Simon Jacob: 13:41

So you can see from here the Hermon one. Yeah, I'm not joking, I know Every day.

Sam Baum: 13:48

Every day. Yeah, Every every day.

S. Simon Jacob: 13:50

I'm asking you a different question. Yes, I'm looking at this vineyard that you planted, that you will plant.

Sam Baum: 13:56

Yes, please go ahead and it'll be beautiful.

S. Simon Jacob: 13:58

And then I can see there's an open space from that vineyard to the next hilltop, or what have you? The cow buries it.

Sam Baum: 14:05

That's all. Shetakh Mir'eh, there's 200 cows.

S. Simon Jacob: 14:08

Pasture land right there yeah pasture land.

Sam Baum: 14:09

Thank you. There's 200 cows that belong to our who. We rent our house from our flat from.

Rivka Baum: 14:13

He has 200 cows.

Sam Baum: 14:14

He has 200 cows and they roam all the way around.

S. Simon Jacob: 14:16

But I'm just saying, as you're ready for the next varietals Potential.

Rivka Baum: 14:21

You wish Everything around here is taken, and Sam, there's another 20 nachalot like estates, which you get 1.2 dunam to build and 50 agriculture. Yeah, For now they've given out 80, and there's supposedly another 20, and it's known around here that Sam Baum is here to stay until he gets one.

S. Simon Jacob: 14:39

Okay, all right, good, so how much? What do you have here?

Sam Baum: 14:42

Okay, so the entire field's 14. All right, good, so what do you have here?

S. Simon Jacob: 14:44

Okay, so the entire field is 14. 14 dunam.

Sam Baum: 14:46

Yeah, 14 altogether. And then I lost from the fencing another three dunam and then I decided that I wanted to split all the fields, so I lost another dunam dunam and a half. So planted actually planted will be 10 dunam Nine dunam red and one dunam pinot gris.

S. Simon Jacob: 15:03

That's right. I just want to know what the future holds. That's the reason why I asked the question. Okay, good.

Sam Baum: 15:09

The future holds hopefully very, very high-quality wine farm-to-table that I have no question about.

S. Simon Jacob: 15:15

I just wanted to know what varietals can dissipate. Once this is up and running, it's actually a very good question because it would make sense.

Rivka Baum: 15:25

There is a very, very clear plan. Okay, also was once upon a time a point of contention which we've covered. We overcome sam wants to make one flagship wine, family-bound winery make one syrah carinian blend. It's the only one we have. We sell it on futures. Thank god up until now it's been sold out every year and that's it which is why I fought for my white, because there's no way I'm bringing people here for just what. It will be fantastic, but there needs to be something else.

Sam Baum: 15:54

I know they've been around almost a thousand, I don't know how many hundreds of years, but the truth is the opus one. I'm not saying I'm I'm there yet, but in 30, 40 years down the line, the vineyard will be there. Hopefully the winemaking will be there and there's no reason that there can't be a wine like that from the Levant.

S. Simon Jacob: 16:09

That was Elie Benzakian's dream at the very beginning as well To have Grand Vin. All the rest of the stuff is just noise.

Sam Baum: 16:16

I don't want to focus on that, I just want to focus on the Grand Vin, but Elie Benzakian maybe made it possible for us to do it because the 30 years of the high-end wine industry in Israel has enabled, maybe, maybe, hopefully, someone to come along and now say okay, we're going to make one wine, this is the wine of the region. If you want these flavors, this is where you get it Beautiful. So we'll see.

Rivka Baum: 16:36

I love it 2023 was really our Judean Hills finale, where we were doing a Bordeaux blend whatever we could get our hands on, and you'll see 2024. What you're going to drink now is the first. I really think the first year we had. We made wine with intention of what we actually wanted it to be from the maceration process.

Sam Baum: 16:56

You took it from here yeah, yeah, 80% of the cereal is from here and the Carignan is from. It's from Mizgeri, the Batya, okay, from Ira Levine, a great guy.

Rivka Baum: 17:03

Let's go drink some wine.

Sam Baum: 17:07

Yes, awesome.

S. Simon Jacob: 17:08

Yeah, Awesome, awesome, awesome awesome.

Sam Baum: 17:10

I love this. If you come back in two, three weeks, you'll see a lot of white boxes and many, many, many green vines inside.

S. Simon Jacob: 17:16

So you're trying to get it done before Tushbav yeah, before Tushbav, okay before.

Sam Baum: 17:21

Tisha B'Av. The Friday before Tisha B'Av. Okay so someone said to me can I plant in the nine days? So I said I think you know the Hamidash is coming and they're going to need wine, so we better start planting, we better get ready. That's true. I mean, that's what the fast is about.

S. Simon Jacob: 17:35

No, the real trick is to get it absolutely in before Tisha B. It's advance warning there Two barf has to be done. Has to be done.

Sam Baum: 17:44

Because you need a month in the year to be able to count the year. Yeah, that's right. Okay, and now it's the season of nectarines and peaches. That's what's being picked Great Nectarines, peaches, okay, so so now we're Now.

Sam Baum: 17:59

We're in the winery, in the cellar, in the cellar. This is the cellar. This will be only the barrel room. Okay, and what we've done. When we came here so we looked for a place to actually make the wine and someone had a makhsan it's a sort of equipment for a restaurant Right and we emptied out the equipment. We started to make the. We made all of the wine in here, all the wine, and then we we got to the barrel stage.

Sam Baum: 18:30

And okay, we got to the barrel stage and we decided we took all the vats out, we put them outside, we put the barrels inside and then we said, okay, but next year, because the wine rests for two years, matures for two years. So next year what we're going to do because the room has to be at 18 degrees and the fermentation has to be depends, depends how we'll do it, about 22 degrees, 20 degrees, so on and so forth. You need to control it, so we need to control it. So what we decided to do is turn this place only into the cellar room. There'll only ever be barrels in here and outside. We took an empty piece of land. We put concrete over the entire area. It was stones, like outside, like pebbles, yeah, concrete of the entire area.

Sam Baum: 19:08

Bought five tailor-made vats in from china and that just came on wednesday or thursday. It's just empty. No, we haven't been outside yet. I don't really want to. We can go outside, but kef, but it's whenever you're ready, okay, but there's five tailor-made vats.

Sam Baum: 19:21

I realized for my winemaking last year because we did, we brought in around three and a half to four. We can go outside, but Kev, but it's whenever you're ready, but there's five tailor-made vats. I realized from my winemaking last year because we did we brought in around three and a half to four tons with different sizes of vats. So we had a thousand liter, 700 liter, 600 liter just the equipment that I had and we realized that the a thousand liter was the same height as the 700, but much wider, and the wine from the thousand liter vat was far superior. So all of our vats are much, much wider. They're about a metre and a half wide and shallower than any other vats that I've seen. Each vat is 1800 litres. So we designed them like we wanted.

Sam Baum: 19:58

They just arrived and that's all outside. All needs to be set up with the chilling system, so on and so forth. And then in here is just the ballroom and our lounge visitor centre. It's specifically tailored to the idea that there isn't just an open visitor centre, but if people want to come, then the visit is tailor-made to whatever they want Time of day, what they want to have, what they want to drink, so on and so forth, because that's also the idea of the winery itself. Everything's very personal, very business to consumer, and so we want also the experience here to be the same idea. And because there's no other wine to serve. So all the wine that you're drinking now is from the barrels. What we started to do the last three weeks is take out wine from a barrel three to four hours before the visit, and now we'll take out in the glasses directly from the barrel and you'll taste the difference of wine that's coming out straight away and the flavors, and then what comes out a couple hours before.

Sam Baum: 20:51

What we're talking about drinking is the 2024. 2024. It's been in the barrels since November, so it's the 20th of November 2024. So who put it in?

S. Simon Jacob: 21:01

Did you put it in?

Sam Baum: 21:02

Rivka made 23. If you want to get the 23 bottle while I Simon has it. Oh yeah, you have it so 23,.

Rivka Baum: 21:09

This is one of those good problems. It's a good problem to have, but I basically really oversold this vintage and for our archive we only have three left.

Sam Baum: 21:17

Wow.

Rivka Baum: 21:17

I wanted between 7 to 10, but that didn't happen For good reasoning. But whatever this year will be, the jump is from 600 to 2000 so there's no more available unless she oversells it. No, no, you can't do that again.

Sam Baum: 21:37

We need something some way to market. Yeah, literally some way to market this is our fourth vintage, so we did.

Rivka Baum: 21:47

Yeah, first is 21.

Sam Baum: 21:48

2021 started because I was moved from the winemaking process in Castel to the wine growing process and I wanted to do both sides. But Castel basically said, once we had planted 400 dunam, that I needed to be full-time. So it started because we took our wedding savings whatever. It was 30,000. Shekel bought a micro winery and that's how it began. The first harvest was about 600 litres, or 600 kilo, and we built. Whilst we were bringing in the grapes, we were building the Keter shed around. Wow, it was quite ridiculous. And that we we brought out 200 bottles. It was actually thanks to Avi Moskowitz.

Rivka Baum: 22:26

Yeah.

Sam Baum: 22:26

Because he said just get the wine out there. I said it's not the right variety, it's not the right quality From.

S. Simon Jacob: 22:30

Birbasson.

Sam Baum: 22:31

Yeah, he said just get it out. He's a really special person. He said just get it out.

Rivka Baum: 22:34

Just stop building the brand. He said, sam, stop being such an artist. You have drinkable wine. Because I used to. I opened like a secret Instagram because Sam hated all of that. And then the day I think it started, when we were bottling 2021, I said, okay, sam, we're live and, like I wanted it to have really been built up. So I like built it up on private and then we opened it and really that's how we sold vintages 21, 22 and 23 was entirely via Instagram, and this year, when we grew up a bit so we opened a website and that's when we started to introduce pre-orders was with this vintage. I love hudu sauce.

Rivka Baum: 23:29

Actually, everything on the table is from shawl from the eucalyptus. Our friend Dol grows the eucalyptus. The fruit is from Meshech Malon, the cheese and the fruit leather is all handmade from a couple who live in Kibbutz Al Tal. All locally sourced.

S. Simon Jacob: 23:47

Yeah.

Sam Baum: 23:50

And hopefully we'll be able to be here till the 10,000 bottle mark, that's the plan.

S. Simon Jacob: 23:57

Wow, you should be able to do it. Yeah, I believe so.

Rivka Baum: 24:01

Buying the grapes yeah. Because you're not involved right now in harvesting so you can do your planting Exactly. Vintage 2028 will be our first vintage made from our own grapes, but it's only going to come out in 2030.

Sam Baum: 24:14

But we'll have to form the vineyard until then. That'll be three years of managing it, building it, looking after it.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:20

But that's your love.

Rivka Baum: 24:23

That's what you wanted to do man.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:25

That's the beauty.

Rivka Baum: 24:26

Yeah, where do you press All outside? Outside, around the corner, there's gates, the iron gates. Behind the iron gates is all the equipment.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:34

Yeah, and the greats, the gates from whom?

Rivka Baum: 24:38

This here, the Siraz from Schech, from Gabi Sharabi, and the Karinian is from Ira Lavin and Miskeret Batya.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:45

Miskeret Batya. My father was born in it, oh really yeah.

Sam Baum: 24:52

Long time ago, so this was harvested at around 13%, 13.5% alcohol.

Rivka Baum: 24:59

Sam called me from Gaza. He was supposed to come out two days later. He's like listen, we have to harvest it in four days. I'm like, ok, well, when are you coming out? He's like listen, we have to. We have to harvest in four days. Okay, well, when are you coming out? He's like I think tomorrow, maybe in two days. And we literally had to organize the entire thing. He came out and a day later we yeah, the timing is never good never, ever works in our favor ever but it has to happen.

Sam Baum: 25:23

that's the great thing about the harvest you can't stop it.

Rivka Baum: 25:29

So it has to happen.

Sam Baum: 25:31

So there's no planning around it. You plan around it, not around you. So, yeah, and this all happened because on Pesach time, we offered some of the investors. That's how we all managed to make this happen, because we decided that we didn't want to buy grapes forever and be caught in this sort of you know, it's very wise, it's different, it's very wise Vintage 23 is the last one we did alone, solely alone.

Sam Baum: 25:57

And then 24 we said we wanted to control the whole, the whole system. And so we brought in the money, gave away some of the business, but we invited them on Pesach and they said, yeah, sure we'll come. And Rifkin said you know, we have to fix the bathroom, there's a toilet behind you. So I said okay, fine, and then I decided to fix all the, the whole room. So we did the lava, we did the walls the table and the chairs about 25.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:22

I saw the pictures. That was great. It was amazing.

Rivka Baum: 26:25

The kids planted the trees that you can see outside in the barrels.

Sam Baum: 26:27

Those barrels are the first barrels we used, the first barrels we used to make wine and everything is very much generational. We had to have four generations and what we'll drink soon is the ouzo. These glasses were made by my grandfather in England, dancing glass, and it was his company and everything's hopefully a legacy which. So we'll drink some wine, yes, so this is the 24.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:48

This is the 24. And this is 24.

Sam Baum: 26:50

Right out of the barrel, right out of the barrel Came out 30 seconds ago.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:54

Yeah, just now, mmm.

Sam Baum: 27:00

Yeah, I believe you have the true funk of Silla. Yeah, I believe you have the true funk of Sira. Thank you, thank you.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:14

Let's start with Baruch Rehagaf.

Sam Baum: 27:28

Baruch Atah Adonai.

Sam Baum: 27:37

Amen we plan to I think we sort of learn our lesson through drinking a bit more wine and also making more wine is that this will be bottled in January, february and come out in July. So we'll sit here in the bottle for around six months, around two hours time. We're still wondering when it will come out, but the flavours continue to develop in the bottle and people want to open it, even though I say to people which the one that just came out, wait till Rosh Hashanah, it's better, so on and so forth. They can't, they cannot, right.

Rivka Baum: 28:14

Because they've already waited so long. No, you're right, it makes sense.

Sam Baum: 28:16

They even text me saying listen, I know you told me to wait, but I can't, so I opened it.

S. Simon Jacob: 28:22

People are always telling me you know like well, did you open it? No, I didn't open it yet you know like I want to give it a chance here.

Sam Baum: 28:32

So, yeah, this is a very different style. I mean, I'm getting a lot of sort of red Coming Chi-Chi there's Chi-Chi, mommy's coming A lot of red fruits and on the other side, much deeper flavors, very, very little oak, if any oak, because all the barrels are reused. The first time we used them in the winery where they've already gone through three harvests at Kasta All of the barrels, so nothing's new.

S. Simon Jacob: 28:58

You can tell from there from.

Sam Baum: 28:59

Kasta, yeah, exactly so you can see. You can see the emblem here. It's not even the emblem.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:04

It's not even the emblem, it's the, the staining. It's no, it's the red, it's not, it's the. What's it called? The painting, the ring.

Sam Baum: 29:14

The ring, the two rings that are around the rim of the barrel.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:16

Yes, yes, I have not seen it. I've seen it in Israel, except in Kastan. It really protects the barrels.

Sam Baum: 29:25

And here now, you know.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:31

Yeah, no, if it starts to get eaten away by anything, you know that you've got a problem that you've got to solve before the barrels go.

Sam Baum: 29:35

And then I think, you know, I think I feel a lot of much deeper tones, if it's tobacco, if it's leather, if it's manure, if it's deep, deep tones, a bit like blue cheese, and as it opens, up, which is fun now to in a bit to taste.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:50

So tell me a second yes, because you said that this year is the last. That's not your own vineyard, no, no.

Sam Baum: 30:01

No, because they've got to grow it for three more years. Three more years, three more years.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:05

No, I to the end of November by Three more years. No, I know. So you're going to be buying grapes for at least three more years. Yes.

Rivka Baum: 30:11

But the same one, the same.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:13

Same place.

Rivka Baum: 30:14

Yeah, it's not experimenting no Okay.

Sam Baum: 30:18

And the vineyard's on the way, which is, you know, anyways, years. I have to wait three years.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:22

So at least, no, I was hoping you weren't going to say to me no, we've decided we're not making wine until that's ready. And I'm saying no, no, don't do that, don't do that.

Sam Baum: 30:30

No, even if it means that I'm you know, I haven't said this before but even if it means that once we harvest our own grapes and the complexity of the wine lessens, then the price, you know, in accordance, because something that exists in europe doesn't exist here, but the quality of the wine is mirrored in the price of the bottle. I'm not sure the Israeli market or the Jewish market is able to accept that, but I think, as a small enough supplier of wine, where the interactions, you know, are high frequency between us and the clients, then you can actually explain the idea of a vineyard being young and even though sometimes a young vineyard, can you know, can surprise the first, the fourth year, the fifth year. So we'll ride the wave, but, yes, 28, we'll be harvesting 20, 30, the one will come out.

Rivka Baum: 31:17

We initially said we'll bring out our first vintage when he's vomits faster. We're doing well.

Sam Baum: 31:22

Yeah.

Rivka Baum: 31:23

Cause we're already four down.

Sam Baum: 31:25

I was just thinking today that the north isn't, it's not holidayed enough by people coming. I didn't know it myself. I fell in love with the Negev first of all. Where?

S. Simon Jacob: 31:37

in the.

Rivka Baum: 31:37

Negev.

Sam Baum: 31:38

I was in Arad for three years when I was in the army in Nachal, so I was training there for a long time.

S. Simon Jacob: 31:42

I fell in love with Nachal Tov Bayerad Was it Batar.

Sam Baum: 31:45

No Bayerad Tel Arad, ah, tel Arad. Yeah, oh yeah, nachal Tov. So, yeah, that's right, not far from Har Hamasa, not far, not far. So and then Rivka said, no, you're not sending me to the bedroom or go somewhere else, and I will say that the only advice so I'll get to the wine the only advice I ever got from eddie benzerkin was when I told him that I want to go and plant a vineyard down south and he said he didn't speak to me, just said no, up north. But so, and as I've come here and seen the quality of the soil and done the soil test, it's really a different level. It's a different level.

S. Simon Jacob: 32:30

If your goal is to make the absolutely best wine you can make in Israel, the only place you can make it is here, yes, or the Judean hills. And the Judean hills is only if you catch the right vine, micro right, the right microclimate. Otherwise, if you catch the right vine, micro right, right, the right microclimate, I agree. Otherwise you have to be here. Yeah, there's no other choice.

Sam Baum: 32:51

I agree, there's a vine. There's a woman here called Netta. She is a agronomist or a vintner for Golan Winery. Yeah, they put in the big windmills. Mm-hmm, she said they picked up a vine with a 12-meter root. When they put down the torbino, the windmills, they picked up a vine and the vine's root went down 12 meters.

Sam Baum: 33:14

Yeah, because there's nothing really stopping it. There's no like you have in the Judean hills. There's no mother rock, it's all stone. Yeah, here you have the ability to really drop all the way down into the minerals. And I'll show you here, as I pour the wine rocks, random rocks I've picked up not that I looked for them, that I picked up from the vineyard which are just full of minerals, calcium, I don't know what else it is, but so these are just rocks from the vineyard. Wow, there's a green mineral. Yeah, that's it. Just minerals are being picked up inside the rock. That's just from the field. Nothing, you know, no sort of excavation, just that's what's happening, because the this is the basalt yeah, that's the basalt, that's right which actually isn't magma rock. Baselic rock is called basalt rock. That's the name also in English. It's not magma, it's a different type of rock. I tried to research as much as I could, and that's what I found. There's a place near here that actually, if you put a compass down, your north is off.

Sam Baum: 34:17

Because of the magnetic field around the rocks, sorry.

S. Simon Jacob: 34:21

Is this the same like this?

Sam Baum: 34:23

So this is from a different barrel. It's also actually very interesting. Just two weeks ago we tried all the barrels. We wanted to do a date night we do it every week, but we had a lot of work to do so we came here to the winery and they said they're going to try all the barrels. So it was a fantastic date night and we tried all of them and they're all different. All of them are different. All of them are different. Some are softer, some are harsher, some are more approachable, some have to open up.

Sam Baum: 34:47

Some are more fruity, because we're going to blend all of it together in a vat 1800 liters and then it will come out how many bottles will come out of them oh, I think we'll hit around 1900 bottles.

Sam Baum: 34:58

It's difficult to say because something that I actually learned from a podcast with well, it gave me the confidence sorry, from a podcast here with la fol de blanche. Yeah, so he's a wonderful winemaker, so he said in the podcast that he's happy to leave the wine on the lees the whole way throughout. Now, where I was brought up in Castel, after four months it's taken off the lees and then brought back down to the barrels. And I felt that I don't need to because I only put in very, very fine lees into the barrels when we barreled and it gave me the confidence to go with it. So it hasn't come off its lees since November, but I don't plan to take off its lees.

Rivka Baum: 35:37

And that reduces the amount of wine you can.

Sam Baum: 35:40

I won't lose less wine, but the intensity and the complexity will be higher. As long as there's no sort of reduction in the wine, then we can can keep it, which so far we're good.

S. Simon Jacob: 35:51

So so this one was air.

Sam Baum: 35:58

It's been out for about two, three hours.

S. Simon Jacob: 36:00

More intense, definitely more intense flavour. No, you can tell I get more flavour, more fruit. I'm getting it's coming out of the chow.

Sam Baum: 36:11

Yeah, definitely comes out of the chow. It's not often that people get to taste from the barrel because you're in the middle of the process, and so either people don't appreciate it and then ask if we have any other wine Doesn't usually happen, but they sort of look at it Terrible.

Sam Baum: 36:27

No, they want to know if there's anything ready, cause they say taste something in the process know, ask if we have any other wine doesn't usually happen, but you know, they sort of they sort of look at no, they want to know if there's anything ready, because I think you're taking something in the process. Now what often happens is I'll put it to the nose at the beginning, they'll sort of look around a bit uncomfortable and then, whilst they sit here and the wine opens up, they come out and they end up almost always, or you know, ordering. So it just takes time. It takes time and for people who are wine lovers it's actually for me, having people come and like wine it's fascinating. It's fascinating because you get to see it throughout the entire process. But yeah, as it opens up, the people also open up.

Rivka Baum: 37:05

Are you trying it?

Sam Baum: 37:06

yet.

S. Simon Jacob: 37:06

No, not yet.

Sam Baum: 37:06

Yeah, go ahead, try. Yeah, I think it's going in the right direction. I like it a lot. I like it a lot Me too. I think it's one of the first ones. I really personally like it more Rivka's the nose, I'm just the hands. I think it's the first one which I really stand behind Seriously from all the vintages that I've done. It's the first one which I said. This is, you know, I've come to say something I've come to say something different.

S. Simon Jacob: 37:36

This is your first blend, right?

Sam Baum: 37:37

This is your this is our first Syrah of Carignan. The others were Cabernet and Cabernet Petit. But this is the first time I'm happy with, I'm bringing a different dish, I'm bringing a different angle and not from some sort of you know, I don't think anyway some weird funk angle, of some weird process. I believe the variety is coming out, the variety at 13% alcohol, sitting on its knees, not too much interference. You know, a long maceration process. It was on its skins for almost, almost two months and fully malolacted, fully to the last gram. So you know, I often describe it as it may not be sultano, but sort of a black silk dress. It's sort of relatively start, simple but also very complex, falls perfectly, there's a deepness to it, but it's not in your face, it's very in your face. It's very elegant, sophisticated, it's level. But as someone once said to me, the most important factor is the yummy factor. Yeah, and if it's not yummy?

S. Simon Jacob: 38:48

then no one cares what you have to say.

Sam Baum: 38:50

Well then you have to talk a lot more yeah, 100% To feel the body coming out.

Rivka Baum: 38:59

Yeah.

Sam Baum: 39:00

Much more than when it comes out straight out the back.

Rivka Baum: 39:02

Today. It took time. Normally I have the barrel. I like it.

Sam Baum: 39:05

Yeah, it's always different, it's always changing, always.

Rivka Baum: 39:10

Also, each barrel somehow goes through its own little thing.

Sam Baum: 39:15

I just took my legendary daylight that we had to.

Rivka Baum: 39:18

Oh yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 39:21

They're not really the same because the barrels are used, pre-used. The barrels are pre-used, so something's been in there before. For sure, even if you wash them out For sure They've all got origins that them out. For sure They've all got origins that came out of different situations and you think that it doesn't do anything. But also the lots, the parts of the vineyards that you've taken the grapes from are so different. You know, you think I've got it from the same vineyard. What's the big deal? They're all the same grapes. Yeah, that's not how it works, no, so it's amazing that you get.

S. Simon Jacob: 39:55

It's amazing that you can make a blend that's even remarkably you know, reasonably consistent from year to year.

Rivka Baum: 40:01

Yes, I will only know this year.

Sam Baum: 40:05

I think the fact that you have from the Golan and from the Sgeret Batya, maybe that's what gives it its complexity.

Rivka Baum: 40:11

Yeah, I think also we. Something else we were discussing about this year coming up the 25th harvest is Sam wants to try this year with all-natural yeast wild yeast and we never add nitrogen, ever Like, thank God we've never had that issue. Like the fermentation, we leave it on its own yeast and it does its own thing. But yeah, I think maybe if we go with doing wild yeast, I would maybe add just for the fear of it not getting stuck.

Sam Baum: 40:44

sounds like no, I don't think so. Just go for, because the variety will talk even more, the area will talk even more.

S. Simon Jacob: 40:51

Yeah, by starting out with your own new fermentation tanks. You can do that.

Sam Baum: 41:10

Yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 41:11

The trick is, once you've done it, like if you had the fermentation tanks in this room and you've used xyz yeast then it's anyway everywhere, it's everywhere, yeah so what happens is usually people end up using commercial yeast or you know manufactured yeast specifically, and you use it in enough quantity to overpower whatever else is there so that you have some control over what you're doing. So you'll see.

Rivka Baum: 41:45

I mean to do.

S. Simon Jacob: 41:46

it is great. It's just it's a lot more work, yeah it's more work.

Sam Baum: 41:51

I don't think it's kind of work I know I can see. And then because we're a winery that only makes one wine, can you hear? So there's obviously an amount of wine that isn't at the standard If it's the heavier leaves, so on and so forth. So we took that, we made a ouzo which is what's here on the table.

S. Simon Jacob: 42:14

Cool, and that ouzo was made with David. David Zubel, zubel, zubel, zubel, zubel From the Golan Iguacillerie.

Rivka Baum: 42:18

Someone's cultured enough to say a French name and it's not us.

S. Simon Jacob: 42:21

I don't know.

Sam Baum: 42:22

So this is.

S. Simon Jacob: 42:22

I'm probably wrong.

Sam Baum: 42:24

That's why I always call her so this is from our wine, our base, syrah, and he yeah, we asked him for it to be a uh, an uso and not an arak, because that's what we like. So 50 is quite high, but we put the.

S. Simon Jacob: 42:43

Okay, we asked him to do this one. We asked him to to do the blend.

Rivka Baum: 42:47

So he put it together Really good.

Sam Baum: 42:49

And he took the botanicals which were Coriander, etrog, lavender, zatar and nisam fennel.

S. Simon Jacob: 42:58

Wow, and the mazi pan is the syrah coming through.

Rivka Baum: 43:04

It's super intense.

S. Simon Jacob: 43:06

Yeah, no, but it's really, it's very interesting.

Sam Baum: 43:08

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, no, but it's really. It's very interesting, yeah, I love it. And he says did you say the marzipan? He thinks it's from the Syrah.

S. Simon Jacob: 43:12

But still, the anise is the big one, yeah, yeah.

Sam Baum: 43:15

Anise fennel a trog coriander and za'atar oh.

S. Simon Jacob: 43:20

Yeah, lots of flavours, very strong, but it smells amazing.

Sam Baum: 43:23

Yeah, it's sort of a palate cleanser between different wines or for a minute break.

Rivka Baum: 43:35

Yeah, His mouth's so dramatic. I'm like, yeah, I think also we wanted, in the same way that we want the wine, to show off the Toa de Levant and what it has to offer, so anything that was. As soon as he said we'll do it with all local botanicals, we were like, ok, fine, in the beginning we thought maybe we'll get involved and we didn't have what we're doing. He was like sad.

S. Simon Jacob: 43:54

That's what was interesting with Agur with. Elad, who you know, and Ayal.

Rivka Baum: 44:01

Yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 44:02

They make a vermouth, that they collect all of these botanicals from all over the Judean hills and it's almost like tasting the terroir.

Sam Baum: 44:12

Yeah, yes, that's what the terroir is made from. Yeah, and they do lick it. They literally go out into the fields and they taste and they try it.

S. Simon Jacob: 44:21

You want. These raspberries are crazy delicious. They're good. Right, Go ahead.

Rivka Baum: 44:28

Thanks, we actually haven't. We actually have the label. We haven't taken it to production yet but the label of the ouzo, it's called the Dreamers and it's the four of our grandfathers and what they did and it's like an ode to them. A lot of them dreamt about it or were Zionistic and whatever, and they never actually made it here and that's why we serve it in these, which were Grandpa Laurie, who was a chemist. When he got to the end of his, when he got bored in life. They went to Croatia on holiday, if I'm not mistaken, and they decided to start making what's called dancing glass and it was like stained glass that was usable. So it's all in his. I'll get a picture of the label. It's very cool.

Sam Baum: 45:09

Yeah, dreamers, because they dreamt about coming and we actually arrived.

Rivka Baum: 45:13

We were having Shabbat lunch and Sam started benching and we got to like Chacholmim and we were like Chacholmim. That's the user that's what it is, chacholmim.

Sam Baum: 45:22

Where are you from? So one side of mine is from England, a few generations, and before that Poland. My mum's side is German. Yeah, braunschweig and Leipzig, rivka, england also.

Rivka Baum: 45:38

Yeah, my grandpa was Swiss, escaped somewhere to Switzerland and then came to London, and my dad's side is Russian, lithuanian. Dekkers Portnoy means toffer, all dreamers were in England actually.

Sam Baum: 45:53

Yes, All four dreamers lived in England.

Rivka Baum: 45:56

My sabba was one of the head.

Sam Baum: 46:01

Donators, Not donators, he like bought.

Rivka Baum: 46:05

Yeah, he bought the. He got all the funding from England.

Sam Baum: 46:08

Like Friends Of yeah, exactly, friends.

Rivka Baum: 46:09

He got all the funding from England Like. Friends Of yeah exactly Friends Of Exactly exactly. Let me find it.

S. Simon Jacob: 46:17

So I have a question for you. Yes, of course, judean Hills to the Golan Heights is a pretty substantial change. How are you guys handling it and how's your young man over here handling?

Sam Baum: 46:35

it my young man's a legend. Really, he's been through a whirlwind since he was born, really.

Rivka Baum: 46:42

The first two years he doesn't really remember but the second two years, when he's three or four, there were some really deep cutting comments.

Sam Baum: 46:49

That was last. Yeah, exactly, but the second two years when he was three or four.

S. Simon Jacob: 46:50

I mean, there were some really, you know, beautiful yeah, deep, deep, cutting comments.

Sam Baum: 46:54

when I was in the army. He went to bed, went to sleep, woke up. I didn't come back for three months, something like that, he like went for a nap. And then over the next two years I was awake. So there were things like you know asking random, you know is he their dad.

Sam Baum: 47:12

I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah, but he's as you know, he's as strong as they come A lion, lion boy. I was in, I'm in Khativat Eser, which is Halil, and I'm in the. I'm in the company. Yeah, they're tanks and they have each. The brigade of tanks has one company of foot soldiers.

S. Simon Jacob: 47:30

So yeah, yeah, and where were you in the station?

Sam Baum: 47:33

We were in Ghazm yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 47:36

Just like the rest of us.

Sam Baum: 47:37

Yeah, I mean not me, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, just like most of you so. But since we've come here, we've settled down and I and then we went about a month ago to do the deliveries around Israel and I realized what sort of it took. You know what sort of just almost like another country we come up from, I did a very sort of obnoxious thing to say I was not coming from an obnoxious place at all, but I said it's not fair that we live in a place so quiet and so calm, and so, and the rest of the country, so you're the one who cursed syria, yeah yeah, I guess it was me.

Rivka Baum: 48:22

I think also I've worn the iron arm the past two years it's been very much like sam's been in and out of of life, like for pockets of of time each time, and then we never know when the next time is. And now more or less we know is when the next time is. But our actual, our entire life, we changed everything and the only thing that hasn't changed, let's say, in my life is salmon loving, like that's it. Like I was a nurse in internal medicine. I actually learned with your sister, your sister.

Rivka Baum: 48:50

I learned with dina wow yeah, and I was working in punimi and for me it was too much adrenaline and life and death at home and with him, and I was only doing night shifts so he wouldn't feel that like we're not both there. It was insane and we went through some stuff ourselves. We have personal losses, miscarriages, like during the whole in Gaza, out of Gaza. It was an insane time of life. And then after the first round, we went to Sri Lanka for three weeks, all three of us, and it was very much like a family rehabilitating. We just needed we couldn't even start to process anything whilst we were here.

Rivka Baum: 49:25

Exactly, exactly.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:27

You went where? Sri Lanka, sri Lanka, sri Lanka.

Rivka Baum: 49:30

Yeah, yeah as you do?

S. Simon Jacob: 49:31

You couldn't have picked somebody at least closer? Someone closer in Sri Lanka?

Rivka Baum: 49:35

We didn't want anyone to be able to call us and that maybe she'd come home.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:38

You're right, Nobody's going to call you. I mean they could, but there's no way to get back.

Rivka Baum: 49:44

Yeah, Right, right yeah, and also when we didn't realize it didn't have any significance then, but we did the harvest on October 5th and then also October 7th happened, and I know how to get to the end of fermentation, I know how to check when a wine is dry, but after that I've got no idea.

Rivka Baum: 50:01

Like I sit with the camera and I make things look nice, I don't you know. And then I basically had to decide okay, either I can somehow make this wine happen and make it, or we'll just leave it and we'll come back to it. And in my head I was like I don't know who or what Sam's going to lose when he goes in, and I didn't want this, for him to come out and everything we'd built to also have just collapsed. So, with the help of his friends, Ishai and David in Castell they are incredible, they are, they're two Haredi boys and they said to me like this is our Milouin. They literally came. They. They cleaned the barrels, they steamed the barrels, they brought the barrels back for me, they ran all my lab tests. Incredible, Amazing.

Rivka Baum: 50:42

And without them, like I wouldn't have been able to fix it Once I put in. How many grams I put in? I really overdid the SO2.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:53

Yeah, which can make it turn from wine into impossible, right.

Rivka Baum: 50:59

I was so stressed I was like, do I call Sam whilst he's in Gaza and tell him, or is that like, do you not do that, or do I need to do that? I literally called them panicking. Anyway, they were like no, it's fine.

S. Simon Jacob: 51:14

Over time you that, or do I need to do that? Or I literally called them like panicking. Anyway, they were like no, it's fine, over time, you would anyway add that amount you wait and anyway, thank god it, it was fine.

Rivka Baum: 51:17

Yeah, you just don't want to drink it soon.

Rivka Baum: 51:17

Yeah, it was right at the beginning it was right after my lactate anyway, so anyway like now that I'm in school for it, I understand that like all I was doing was killing it very sharp and abruptly, whatever was going on in terms of like using it as like an antioxidant and antimicrobial, which at the time I had I was just putting in white powder. I didn't know the difference from anything. But then we managed to bring that wine here and that, for me, was when I realized I just fell in love with it and I didn't. I left nursing fully. Me and Sam had a whole conversation. I said to him listen, like this is your thing, so I don't want to like be that woman. That's like piggybacking your dreams, like either we can do it like properly partners, or like you do it and then I come more than happy to you know, just just do the Instagram kind of thing. And that was when we like went in it full-time and Sam just Instagram slash from the whole business.

Rivka Baum: 52:07

Sam. Sam was supposed to study and he missed the whole first semester because it started in October. And we randomly were talking about it I don't even know why because in our heads we'd kind of given up on it because he started a new job and it didn't make sense for him to do it.

Rivka Baum: 52:22

And then I said you did it he said you're the one who studies out the two of us like. I don't sit in front of a book, you do like you can't, so that's it. I'm in year three now. I'm a bit of cultural neurology in tal kai and where tal kai, tal kai yeah iran is so early this course I was supposed to be for 12 days in champagne for a course about champagne, alsace and champagne.

Rivka Baum: 52:43

It's going to be the first time I ever left la vie. I psyched myself up. I do it. I can, makiali. I've been on my own with it. Then the Iranians started. They cancelled the whole trip. That was the end of that.

S. Simon Jacob: 52:54

They're supposed to do it? Makiala Exactly.

Rivka Baum: 52:57

I psyched myself up yeah, exactly. So they said, maybe I'll do it before the next harvest but it will probably be.

S. Simon Jacob: 53:10

It'll be next year in the end, and for me you've got time before you hit champagne, because it's so, so different and it's such a complex thing and I'm making it.

Rivka Baum: 53:15

Yeah, I just wanted to drink it, that's okay. That was where I was going yeah, no drinking.

Sam Baum: 53:21

It is wonderful, but it's the process I asked somebody if I made any other wine, you'd'd make champagne, but it's so not fine art, it's not practical in any way, shape or form.

S. Simon Jacob: 53:34

And I always asked, I even asked Ellie Benz. I said I don't understand, guys, you know you're making champagne. This is crazy. It's so much more work and it's so much effort and the timing has to be right and all the rest of this stuff. And somebody finally said to me you know, though, you can take the wine the before you before you turn it into champagne, you can have it. Well, once you have it sitting in champagne, you don't have to bottle it, you can leave it on the leaves forever. Yeah and yeah. But that's amazing. I mean, that's like putting in the effort and then letting it just sit there and percolate for years and years and years and years. Champagne.

Sam Baum: 54:18

It's something with it yeah, it's so complex that people, people understand why it should be 400 shekel, 500 shaker. It's way more complex than any veg you're going to drink. Way more complex. It's double fermentation from the bottle. It is insane.

S. Simon Jacob: 54:34

You have to freeze the ends of them upside down so that you get the yeast back out and then pop it out. I listen to the podcast. It's insane.

Rivka Baum: 54:43

It's nuts. It's an insane process. I'm an avid listener, whether you like it or not.

Sam Baum: 54:46

I actually drink. They have a fantastic one. I know he's always mentioned in your podcast because he's a legend Eviatar, eviatar anytime me and Sam have had something to celebrate.

Rivka Baum: 54:55

We moved to Charles on our own. We got a package, the first package to reach my house in the Golan and burst out crying. Eviatar sent us a champagne a blanc de blanc. He's like you guys have to celebrate. And then recently again, when we Basically whenever I drink champagne, it's sponsored by Aviator. He decides when we should drink champagne.

S. Simon Jacob: 55:13

He's really special. You only need to know Sarah Netanyahu, you get a lot of champagne.

Sam Baum: 55:19

We drink from.

Rivka Baum: 55:20

Alsace, the family-bound winery, says out of politics, yeah, the family-bound winery says out of politics we're apolitical. We, we're apolitical, we just like wine which champagne did you send me?

S. Simon Jacob: 55:28

Alsace, alsace, which one it's a kosher champagne from Alsace.

Sam Baum: 55:31

In the traditional method it's about 110 shekel fantastic so far there, so far there which one?

S. Simon Jacob: 55:38

do you remember the name?

Rivka Baum: 55:39

no, it's initial, the Alden one no, no, no, it's from Alsace oh, I don't know what it's called Koenig Koenig K-O-E-N-I-G.

Sam Baum: 55:47

Okay, koenig, koenig, fantastic.

S. Simon Jacob: 55:49

Yeah.

Sam Baum: 55:50

Fantastic.

S. Simon Jacob: 55:51

It's from outside, it's right. It's German, right, yeah, no, but yes, that's amazing. But actually some of the best champagne style because you can't call them champagne sparkling wines that's made is the wine from Golan Heights.

Rivka Baum: 56:13

Oh yeah, you know that, mayerden got sued because they wrote a Champagne.

Sam Baum: 56:19

Chalateva and champagne sued them Seriously In another language and they still found a way to sue them? Yeah, of course.

S. Simon Jacob: 56:29

They've got to make money somehow. The only only people who can't sue is Herzog, because, herzog, when they came out with the law about only you have to have it from the region of Champagne in France, they had been making Champagne in New York before that. Oh really, yes. So because it predated it, they couldn't stop them from using that name. And so they still make kosher New York champagne.

Rivka Baum: 57:04

That's very cool. We never knew until recently, Someone was here, someone from New York, and they told us that halls that are catered in New York you can only have, or America in the five towns. You can only have Mavushal wine.

Sam Baum: 57:15

You use Mavushal.

S. Simon Jacob: 57:16

I did not know that. Caterers restaurants In the US that's the rule.

Sam Baum: 57:22

Everything.

Rivka Baum: 57:22

Anything under the remnant of Mavushal.

S. Simon Jacob: 57:24

So that puts Israeli wines like in a no, there's a lot of Israeli wines in the Domevushel.

Rivka Baum: 57:30

Really.

S. Simon Jacob: 57:30

A lot now. A line specifically for Exactly, specifically to do, specifically to get into the restaurants in America. They're not even thinking about the caterers, but the restaurants. But the truth is that there's. This is not. You're not looking at this.

Rivka Baum: 57:50

You're not generating a volume that you need to work on.

S. Simon Jacob: 57:52

No, but it's not only that, you're not looking. This is not the price level that you want to be selling in places. You've got enough customers that are just going to eat this up.

Rivka Baum: 58:00

I really see it as milestone wine. I want people to take it to the milestones, like specifically, like it's actually. Is it Sunday? Yeah, oh no, we have people from all that you can see over here. This, we have people from all that you can see over here. This is all exported. There's Hong Kong, australia, uk and USA, they're all coming here.

Rivka Baum: 58:20

No, Whatever's not bubble-wrapped we're keeping for them until they next come to Israel. Whatever's bubble-wrapped is going to EMS, it's being shipped. And there's two people One, she told me, she's giving birth in mid-August and she wants it for the Brits. Someone's getting married mid-August. They want it under their chuppah. That is exactly where I want our wine to go.

S. Simon Jacob: 58:42

So the reason we limited the sales. Yeah, you can only buy up to three bottles this year. I know I know, because I bought nine bottles. He can only buy three, but that doesn't say anything about me, right.

Rivka Baum: 58:50

No, 100% you can use emails.

Sam Baum: 58:52

However, it just means because we I say this also because it's about Tiffany, but it's the ability for someone. I fell in love with Shiraz through Shiraz Kayumi Yep. That's how I fell in love with Shiraz. Their 2013 or 2016 bottle are incredible Kayumi. Vineyards yeah, Kayumi Vineyards.

S. Simon Jacob: 59:09

Which are gone, which are exactly. I drive past them the whole time.

Sam Baum: 59:13

The whole time I drive past them, you still have the sign, which is Kevin moving out, and the ability that someone can go and buy a bottle.

Rivka Baum: 59:19

Try a different barrel.

Sam Baum: 59:20

Even if it's 100, you know, if the price of wine is 160 shekel, people can allow themselves I personally a bottle over 160 shekel I may buy, twice a year maybe, but there are wines I'm able to buy because the sales are limited and I want people, you know, who want to celebrate a special occasion, who want, you know, be able to buy a single bottle, are able to, and not just for it to be so next year, when 25, when we harvest, yes, there'll be one, three, six, nine, 12. But still it's not going to be. See, I thought I'd done.

Rivka Baum: 59:52

It Makes my job a lot easier, because if it wasn't Limited sales, I would have sold out Already. 24.

Sam Baum: 59:56

Yeah, we sold out 50%. I sold out 50% In the first 12 hours, but because it was limited.

Rivka Baum: 1:00:01

I had to refund so many people.

Sam Baum: 1:00:03

So many bottles.

Rivka Baum: 1:00:05

It's not really a fair game. I'm a head of marketing, but according to Sam's rules, so it's a bit A bit of a botched game.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:00:14

I game, I don't know. My wife only buys things based on social media, you're right. So I didn't do it in the order that you're supposed to do it in. So I ordered nine bottles and I thought oh, I got nine bottles, that's cool. And then I get a call, my phone ringing. It's like sam. He goes I'm very, very sorry, but you're only allowed three. I said but I bought nine charge it too bad.

Rivka Baum: 1:00:52

I uh, I'm gonna make a just for my own pride and ego of all the bottles I've refunded, just so I can tell Sam how quickly I would have sold out if I was allowed. I understand it though. We're growing a client base. It makes sense it's just not so fun for me. This is barrel number one, two three, four barrel, four. Okay, yeah, going for it, you can be the poorer. Barrel four barrel four I'm.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:01:15

Okay, you can be the poor Arrow for powerful.

Sam Baum: 1:01:24

I'm keeping track. You can't buy barrel, for you can only blend, but you can taste our for now, yeah, and I wouldn't mind for the wine to you know. That's how it in mind. Well, there's a restaurant in 11 Madison Square which is the top Michelin restaurant in New York. Which one 11 Madison Square top Michelin restaurant in New York? And for them to have 11 Madison Square, they won the best restaurant in the world, I think, two years running, and they went completely vegan and kept all three stars. It's very different. Ooh, this one is different.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:01:45

So it's not kosher. No, no, fascinating, as long as you don't have to worry about kosher.

Sam Baum: 1:01:50

You know, I think that's not fair.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:01:53

Because if I only eat in a kosher restaurant, that means I don't have access to it, unless I come here.

Sam Baum: 1:01:57

Kethys can be sold, and I often take bottles of wine to a restaurant. That's the truth. That's the truth. We do from time to time. There is etiquette which you have to make sure it's not on the list and you have to pay the bottle opener, but then you can drink a wine that you enjoy and you have to. You know there is etiquette to it, but it's allowed Restaurants.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:02:19

You know they plan for that. You're allowed to take wine into a restaurant in New York, a kosher restaurant, but only.

Sam Baum: 1:02:27

I've asked for a Heckscher.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:02:28

No, it's not a Heckscher, it's a. Mavusha Really.

Sam Baum: 1:02:33

Even if you bring it.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:02:34

Yeah, even if you bring it, go for a restaurant in Israel. There's plenty of really good restaurants in Israel and they're not going to sit there and say it's not Mavushal.

Sam Baum: 1:02:42

He's aiming for.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:02:43

Michelin-starred restaurants in New York that are just not Asherah. That also works. Both won't work. You know where you could go to? There's a kosher restaurant, michelin star, only one in barcelona. Barcelona, really, yeah, what's it called? It's a lot closer, it's just kosher michelin star restaurant, it's only it only opens up kosher one night a week why in the rest of the time it's not kush?

Sam Baum: 1:03:08

yeah, I guess fascinating it is. It's really fascinating the goolan still isn't yet an area of Apple. That's an interesting project.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:03:18

Not yet. They're working on it.

Sam Baum: 1:03:19

Yeah. They have problems because it's after 67. That's why I understood. That's also why I understood because of I'll fix that soon enough. Yeah, nachon, no Yadav. Shomron also has the same idea.

Rivka Baum: 1:03:31

The Judean Hills same idea, so judean hills, that might take a little longer.

Sam Baum: 1:03:33

Yeah, but it was going to include technically as a region, but I didn't because they were advised not to do it interesting. Yeah, no, they said that the legals would be so complicated and people will just be stopped a little longer, but hopefully this happens soon but in terms of terroir and the region it's the same yeah and the negev is extremely interesting.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:03:57

Oh yeah, it's got some incredibly complex, creative wines, but if you're trying to make, if you're trying to have a go at the best wine in israel or the world, or in the world, you don't that's already tying at least one of your hands behind your back. Yes, for sure so that's of course say two hands. Yeah, you want. Do you want to go for it with everything you can powerful very nice yeah for coming.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:04:31

Thank you for all the time. As the sun dipped over the Golan Heights and the wind still sang through the young vines, it was impossible not to feel the momentum building. Here at the Baum Family Winery, sam and Rivka aren't just planting grapes, they're planting the future. One row of Shiraz, grenache and yes Pinot Gris at a time, tasting their first Golan-born vintage straight from the barrel, was a reminder of what makes wine so captivating it's a living story shaped by the land, the weather and the people who pour their hearts into it. And here in Sha'al, that story is just beginning. I can't wait to return in the years ahead to walk these same rows when the vines have matured and to see how this bold new chapter unfolds. Until then, here's to vision, resilience and the thrill of starting something extraordinary.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:05:47

This is Simon Jacob, again your host of today's episode of The Kosher Terroir. I have a personal request no matter where you are or where you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldiers' safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you're new to The Kosher Terroir, please check out our many past episodes.