S. Simon Jacob: 0:09

Welcome to The Kosher Terroir. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, I ask that, wherever you are, please take a moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all of our hostages. Over a year ago, I sat down with Nadav Jesselson, the visionary behind Anava Vineyards, a place where passion, personal connection and profound terroir converge. But Anava isn't your typical vineyard. It's a living canvas where individuals and families don't just drink wine. They craft it from their own plots of land, guided by a world-class winemaking team. Now Nadav is back and we delve into what has changed in the vines, in the cellar and in the way Anava empowers people to turn a dream into a barrel.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:12

In this episode, we dig deeper. What does it take to steward a community of landowners into becoming producers of wines that matter, of wines that matter? How does a vineyard navigate war, shifting climates, evolving expectations and the sacred intersection of heritage and innovation? If you're curious about owning an Israeli vineyard and what it means to truly connect to the land and the grape, you won't want to miss this new episode with Nadav Jesselson. If you're in your car, please focus on the road ahead. If you're home relaxing. Please pour a glass of delicious kosher wine, sit back, relax and listen to this wonderful conversation with Nadav Jesselson. So, nadav, welcome to The Kosher Terroir, welcome me to Anava. We didn't meet for a long time, so I, The Kosher Terroir, welcome me to Anava.

Nadav Jesselson : 2:06

We didn't meet for a long time, so I forgot the name of the podcast. How's it going?

S. Simon Jacob: 2:10

The Kosher Terroir. You're still doing a lot. Yeah, yeah, I've got over 100 episodes.

Nadav Jesselson : 2:14

Amazing, Crazy crazy, crazy. So I have to listen to them again.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:17

Okay, it's okay, it's okay. What was the most interesting that you had lately? Recommend me a. I had a really good podcast not so long ago with Noa Maoz, who is an agronomist Right, the name's familiar. Yeah, she's the one who basically saved the wine industry here in Israel From the virus, from the viruses.

Nadav Jesselson : 2:42

So that's her specialty.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:44

She's a really sweetheart, Marom HaGolan.

Nadav Jesselson : 2:49

She was here. Maybe once they come once a year to do a seker they go to the trees to look for viruses. Last year they found one here, One tree with a virus, and I was depressed. I said, oh my God, you found me, guys. And they looked at me the agronomist of Carmel. And they looked at me, the agronomist of Carmel, and they said are you kidding? That's nothing. That's nothing. You have one out of the whole vineyard. That's nothing. So actually we had to pull out.

S. Simon Jacob: 3:13

Yeah, there's no, I said you know. So what does that mean? When you find a virus, You've got to give it an inoc antibiotics, whatever. No, you can pull it out. There's no chance. There's no chance to do anything.

Nadav Jesselson : 3:25

They pull it out, and they used to pull one out and one from each other side also. This year we didn't do it, just gave more pesticides to the trees that were near him.

S. Simon Jacob: 3:42

So it's the last time it's as beautiful, beautiful. I'm sitting here under this uh, what you call it? Coppola, coppola, pergola, pergola. Right, I'm sitting here under this pergola, in in the middle of a vineyard. That's just gorgeous.

Nadav Jesselson : 3:59

You're planting even vineyards along this little right, this was a few spares that we had and we put them on the fence, but the watering didn't work, so I think only three of these are left out of all of them. Oh boy.

Ovadiah Jacob: 4:11

Yeah.

Nadav Jesselson : 4:15

You gotta give them attention. If you don't, they won't work.

S. Simon Jacob: 4:19

So I planted, we planted a vineyard.

Nadav Jesselson : 4:22

The booms that we're hearing is from a vineyard on the other side of the road. They have like a cannon that works on gas. It's connected and every few minutes it gives a boom against birds there they have eating grapes. So it's crucial, because the birds go down on their grapes and they'll eat their grapes and their grapes need to stay static, you know.

S. Simon Jacob: 4:50

Right.

Nadav Jesselson : 4:50

It's not like when we make wine. So that's one of the patents to get rid of the birds and the animals Wow.

S. Simon Jacob: 4:58

Okay.

Nadav Jesselson : 4:59

The Davidka bird removal. Exactly, exactly. That should be the name.

S. Simon Jacob: 5:22

Hayal is crazy good. This is really Wow Delicious. This is the new ones where he's getting the grapes. These are their grapes. Yeah, I know the vineyard Very special guy.

Nadav Jesselson : 5:36

His name is Zelig from Givatish Ayal Beautiful vineyard. He finished the army for pension already. He was there for a long time and he went to do a vineyard. Very, very talented guy.

S. Simon Jacob: 5:55

Unbelievable. So yeah, we're tasting their new liam from Agur and liam levan.

Nadav Jesselson : 6:05

It's a 2024, and it's just amazing he has Rosan there. I didn't know.

S. Simon Jacob: 6:09

It's a. What is it? It's a Rosan. Oh, I didn't even know that. That's why it's so good, that's why it's so good.

Nadav Jesselson : 6:18

He used to take Rosan, I think, from Retamin down south.

S. Simon Jacob: 6:28

Used to take Rosan, I think, from Retamin down south, so this is theirs. This is born and bred with their own vineyards, and they changed the label now from Agur Winery to Agur Vineyard. Amazing, yeah, so Baruch Hashem, very special, Okay. That said, let's talk a little bit about Anadá, because we're here and it's such a peaceful, incredibly beautiful setting. Well over a year ago I don't exactly remember exactly when it was, but I thought it was closer to two years, but it might be just a year and a half or something how has Anava evolved? Is there a change in philosophy, in operation, in experience?

Nadav Jesselson : 7:24

So, first of all, you've got to take into consideration that everything that's been going on has been going on besides the war that's going on.

Nadav Jesselson : 7:33

What? What do you mean? Is it war? You could sit here and literally forget it. Yes, but the effect on us is the Miluim. How's it affected you? In and out, in and out of Miluim. And I just came back.

Nadav Jesselson : 7:55

A week ago we were called in for Tzav Shmone. Yeah, friday, you know, the morning of the attack in Iran, everybody was called in. We went. Actually we were in a very peaceful place. I was in the Egyptian border. Yeah, they were afraid of the Egyptians, the Egyptians, the Georgians. At the beginning. They sent us to the Georgian border, then they took us to the Egyptian border A bit of a balagan.

Nadav Jesselson : 8:21

That's how it is in Miluim and in war. And it was very peaceful. Thank God nothing happened and for me it was even we were laughing, the guys there, that we are like, we're like, we are in the, we are in the orif and the families are in the chazit. I don't know how you say that Meaning. We were in such a peaceful place when the families were running in and out of the Mamadim. We were in the desert, going out for the sunrise, going back to the sunset. It was very peaceful.

Nadav Jesselson : 8:54

But still, the in and out of Miloim is very difficult, very difficult. It takes me this time. It took me almost a week to settle in and to get things, you know, in order. And also I came back and it was crazy because the main thing that we're doing here now is we're designing the vineyards, the younger vineyards that are in the third year of Vola now. So I came back. I was sure we were going to be finished, because I had a worker here that was still working, somebody, some girl that's, uh, actually here today also, and uh and I got to a situation where there was a lot of work. I had only three days in the week, anyways, it was. It was crazy. So, as far as uh, that that's. That's the reka, the background of the last year, of course and so the vineyard is evolving amazing. Like I said, we finished last week designing the younger vineyard and it looks very good. I'm very satisfied with the outcome of the designing.

Nadav Jesselson : 10:06

We designed mostly with the girls from Rigavot, the high school girls that are our main workers, and then they finished their high school, so we got workers from the Shomer HaChadash and we were lucky because usually they are packed with work and we got a few days with them. So they really did a good job and they finished everything. Now we're basically fine-tuning the designing. We're going all over the vineyard again, checking each one that is designed correctly doesn't need any fixing. Some we haven't designed yet one here, one there because they weren't big enough, because you have to wait for them to be big and way I imagine it.

Nadav Jesselson : 10:47

This time it hit me there's we've talked about this. There's a lot, a few ways to designing. Right, you could. The way we're designing is called VSP, which is one long row, and then in that one long row you could also do either what we call the resh, which is you take the vineyard and you take him to only to one side, and then the one next to him goes also to his and then they're touching each other. The way we're doing, it's it's a t, it's a t goes up and we split them into two and then the way I imagine, they're all holding hands. All the vines are. Basically that's how I told their guys, that's when I, when I uh tell them how to do it. So I want them all to be holding hands, all the vines, that's how it is at the end.

S. Simon Jacob: 11:30

So by designing it, you're talking about pruning the vines back to the way you want it to be to grow.

Nadav Jesselson : 11:37

So pruning is cutting, I think.

Nadav Jesselson : 11:40

So there is cutting, this is just taking the shoots and bending them down. And when you bend them down they also change their name, because at the beginning it's a sarig, which is the branch. When it's green it turns to be a zmora. When it becomes brown, like a branch right, and if you bend them down to be basically the main branch for the next 60 years, so it turns to be a bud. That's one of the special things I've talked about that the vine has many different words in hebrew for each, each part of this, so the but. So when you do that, it turns about. The bud is uh, which is the main wood, a beam. So that's what we did, and so the pruning is going to be in the winter.

Nadav Jesselson : 12:36

But what's amazing is that we have a small part where we finished designing last year, and you see the difference between one that you finished designing and one that isn't ready yet. The ones that we finished designing was the Sauvignon Blanc. They had endless fruit this year and all the rest didn't have anything. They had a few here and there. But you see the importance of designing and why, for instance, with Karma, when we did the older vineyard here, they were pressuring me to finish designing in the third year in order for the fourth year to be already full with fruit. In the second year they wanted to finish and that's why we had here a lot of fruit on the third year. So we had here a Gdud I think it was 51, from Bach Golani and they came to work. They were amazing and they took off all the fruit from the Sauvignon Blanc.

Nadav Jesselson : 13:27

Those are my favorite days when I get these groups. So that's as far as the younger vineyard. The older vineyard we're preparing for harvest. It's looking good. We're already in Bochal. Bochal is when the fruit changes its color. Is there a word for that in English?

S. Simon Jacob: 13:44

Yes, yeah, it's called Rizan where it goes from. It's in English or in French. It's probably French. Yeah, it goes from From green to purple. It goes from green to purple, yeah, but it's across the different grapes.

Nadav Jesselson : 13:56

So it's not all purple.

S. Simon Jacob: 13:58

yet they're right in the middle Right.

Nadav Jesselson : 13:59

So in the Petit Syira we're already almost 90% purple and in the Kabarnet not yet it didn't even start. I think it's a little early, but actually this summer hasn't been that hot yet. We have had heat waves which also damaged the younger vineyard a little, took us back a little as far as designing, but we overcame that, thank God, and so the summer isn't that hot. So I don't know why we're already there, but we're there anyways. So I'm sure it's good. Um, so that's the younger vineyard, the older vineyard and, uh, as far as anava, you know the concept of anava. Yeah, so we are evolving all the time, as much as we can, again in and out of Miluim. So it's it's hard to get, to get, you know and there's nobody coming from abroad.

S. Simon Jacob: 14:49

Exactly it's like it's not like there's any flights to be able to Now. The flights are just starting to reopen, right.

Nadav Jesselson : 14:55

So and it's not going to take time still to take time for me. But so, besides the fact that people aren't coming, we're, it's tough, it's difficult for us. Already, two years we're trying to get our minds on this product and to understand the product and to know how to give it to someone. So we are doing a few changes. We're opening now an option basically for someone to join for just one cycle. When you say a cycle, do you mean a Shemitah cycle? Not a Shemitah cycle. When I say a cycle, I mean the Onah. Onah is a season cycle, a vintage, a vintage exactly. To join for a vintage, basically being coming, enjoying the vineyard, the events that we have here and all of the experience that you enjoy here and the harvesting and, you know, being seeing where you're going to grow the grapes for your wine. But for one vintage V, but for one vintage. That's a new concept that we are working on now. Hopefully very soon. We're going to already try to advertise and try to get people interested.

S. Simon Jacob: 16:24

Tell me what was the base idea again.

Nadav Jesselson : 16:27

Correct, perfect. The base idea was to the vision of Hanava is to share and connect.

S. Simon Jacob: 16:34

That's reminding Share the opportunity to connect to the land Exactly and to connect.

Nadav Jesselson : 16:41

We want to connect to people with the same values and the same love for the land, for wine, for the land for wine and through wine, basically, and to connect between the people that will join. Because I'll give you certain examples that we just had lately that I don't know if you remember, but it's going with one of the things that you told me that you tasted with the Akobo Goya you had when you were doing the blends. Told me that you tasted with the akoboia you had. Uh, we're doing the blends, so we had something similar. Now, um, um, uh. So so our main concept was that's our vision. And how do we do that? By giving someone his own vineyard.

Nadav Jesselson : 17:18

We planted the vineyard in a certain way. That's not conventional meaning. We planted half a dunam separately so everybody could feel where his plot is, literally. You know, it's not even a row in some vineyard. One of these rows yeah, this is yours. No, this is like. You have a small garden, you're a haklah, you're a vintner yourself, and you're a vintner yourself because, even if you're not coming, we are your shlichim. So we have one of the plots here called Fortress, which is a parcel of Eran Gil that lives in Colorado and we're working here. As far as we want to think about it, we're working as his shlichim and he is connecting to the land and we're connecting with him.

Nadav Jesselson : 18:12

You're doing the heavy lifting it's heavy, but when you have fun, yeah no. Not heavy in a bad way.

S. Simon Jacob: 18:22

No, no, no in a good way. What's happening is you're giving people an opportunity to own a vineyard where they can get as involved as they want, right, right, but it's not on their heads to be involved. Right In the situations where they can't be involved, you can handle the operational side of it Exactly.

Nadav Jesselson : 18:47

So the way we're doing this is number one, that we planted these parcels separately and you can feel it, and we have beautiful signs. That you give the name, so he gave fortress. We have Vinyem Erav. That you give the name, so he gave fortress. We have Vinye Merav that is Menachem, he named it after his wife. And we have AP Partners, which is a private equity from Tel Aviv which I worked with and they also are very into wine, very Zionist, so they hopped in right at the beginning.

Nadav Jesselson : 19:17

So that's the first thing of the vineyard and the second thing of the vineyard and the second thing is basically a club. This is a club of people with these values and who want to basically take the wine to another level, I think, because you can do a barrel almost in a lot of the wineries. You can come and you'll pay money and they'll make your own barrel and you'll get also your own labels and and everything. But here it's the whole cycle, here it's uh, to connect from the, from the roots, almost from the land. Um, so the, the, that's our high-end concept, or the, the original one, and we're adding to that First of all because we want to add more people. We have 30 parcels, 27 left and we want more people.

Nadav Jesselson : 20:05

And to also bring a price where it's more accessible for more people.

Ovadiah Jacob: 20:12

What's the base price before you get to the more accessible?

Nadav Jesselson : 20:14

thing. Buying into the club is seventy thousand dollars and with that you get your personal plot and access to the events, to the vineyard, to being involved in everything. We have a few events throughout the year. We started with two events when it was only the vineyard. Next year we're already in the winery. We're starting making wine, so there's gonna be two more events, uh, maybe even four more events, um and uh. So the 70 000 and then the yearly payment is uh 18, uh to taking care and to getting a barrel at the end.

Nadav Jesselson : 21:04

The full cycle, of course of the vintage is in the vineyard and then in the winery. So we're making the wine. Of course, eyal Drori he's our winemaker. He's going to be leading. We're going to bring in someone to do the handwork together with us. But Eyal is someone to do the handwork together with us, but the yacht is gonna be the mastermind behind it. A yacht is also very cautious to what the people want to do, so for that we're grateful that he's with us, because he's perfect for the job. He's amazing and we also have a vino. I'm in bar who is the agronomist?

Ovadiah Jacob: 21:39

He's also leading with us.

Nadav Jesselson : 21:42

He was the agronomist of Castel for many years and now he's went on his own path and is with us. He's here once a week. So that's our first product, you could say say, and the second one is for a cheaper price, which we're working on the price right now, so I'm not going to give it to you yet, but uh, that's for a vintage gum. You don't have to, uh, go for many years now. Come for just one to to get your taste of wine from the vineyard that you are connected to. So you get a barrel and your own.

Nadav Jesselson : 22:22

Yeah, again, I don't know when the vintage you're going to get. I don't know exactly the amount yet, but you can get a nice amount of bottles with your label, About 300 bottles Right that's a barrel, okay, yeah. But we have to see if Exactly. What makes sense A barrel or a little less.

S. Simon Jacob: 22:45

So one of the things that I was thinking about is I like the idea of creating a legacy for your children. That's super important to me and I can imagine it would be incredibly important to a lot of people, and one of the things that stops it in my mind from being a legacy is the 18,000 a year. So I'm wondering whether is the 18,000 a year. So I'm wondering whether, instead of presenting it as 18,000 a year, there's a way to present it as a larger amount in perpetuity, forever. That it just does. What's the story with the 18,000? Can it go up?

Ovadiah Jacob: 23:38

and down?

S. Simon Jacob: 23:38

Can it go up in the future?

Nadav Jesselson : 23:41

Is it locked at that? It's not locked because things change. We just left an option for us to change the price with the top. We can't change it. I think it was like 4%, maybe not more than 4%. There's also the inflation and we can't change it. I think it was like 4%, maybe not more than 4%. There's also the inflation all kinds of nuance in that issue, but what do you mean? First of all, I'm very happy that you're saying this because I want your feedback.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:11

No, no, no. That's one of the reasons I came Perfect, not only the podcast, but I wanted to come to discuss with you Perfect, what I'm.

Nadav Jesselson : 24:19

What do you mean? That the 18 is heavy? It's not heavy.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:23

It's that, it's a commitment, it's like a subscription.

Nadav Jesselson : 24:26

Right.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:26

Okay, yeah, so when I have a subscription, if, for some reason, I'm not around to pay the subscription, it's like lost. Also, I don't know whether my kids are going to pay for a subscription, or who in my kids are going to pay a subscription or not. But if I have it fixed as I've paid what I needed to pay or I've set up an insurance policy in some way so that if anything happens to me or my wife or what have you, that this legacy is going to be there forever for them, okay, um, I think that that's a um, I don't know if this answers the question, but uh, but the 18 000 is it could go down if you don't want the wine, if, if there's a year that you're saying I have too much or somebody doesn't want, so it goes down.

S. Simon Jacob: 25:25

But I think that it's worth setting up an approach that a person could really pass it on as a legacy to their children. Where I've for it, it's there with. You can build in the four percent, you can build in the four percent increase and you could also build into it.

Nadav Jesselson : 25:47

But right now the. That's how it is, so I'm missing something here, because it's it's it's 18. There isn't there isn't an end you're missing the date.

Ovadiah Jacob: 25:56

My father's's passion is wine, hence the podcast. But his history, his profession, has been in the insurance industry, and they have a product in the insurance industry called an annuity, where you put a lot of money in up front and then it spreads it as payments over an extended period of time. Right, so that pays for the forward.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:18

Okay, so that's the, the, and that way, you can say you're leaving a legacy for your kids. It's done. You know that your kids are going to be able to come here, your grandkids are going to be able to come here, your great-grandkids are going to be able to come here. If they choose not to, that's their business, but you've taken care of that. Okay, yeah, and instead of just giving them money which is a nice thing you're giving them something more. You're giving them, uh, you're giving yeah, in israel, in a vineyard.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:57

you know like Amazing.

Nadav Jesselson : 26:59

I just think. I think that's totally possible.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:04

Again, we are very flexible as far as I know, you're looking for ways to attract people.

Nadav Jesselson : 27:11

Yeah, to do this, so yeah, up front or later on for us it's it could be done. Yeah, okay, don't worry this is the last one, Any if you have thoughts about it.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:29

We'll talk about it. We'll put it together. We'll talk about it, I just because I think there's some people who are looking to leave a legacy. The problem that you have is, when you tell them about a subscription, they think yeah, well, who's going to? Be there to pay it, yeah, and if I don't pay it, then it's gone. What does that do? And what happens if the prices go up significantly, or what have you? What does this really buy me?

Nadav Jesselson : 28:02

So we thought that the problem really is. You know, it's very interesting that you're saying that, because one of the things that maybe that's I didn't approach correctly, because when people said about the subscription, so I felt like they had a problem with the fact that it's going on forever, because, because, because that was our part, our thoughts, to do a legacy, yeah, I think you're going to pass this on. That's the whole thing. So we didn't put an end date to the, to the contract, so and then, but then people, people can't hold in their minds, I feel, feel, how do I deal with it.

Nadav Jesselson : 28:41

No, how do I deal with it? I say infinity. People can't hold infinity Right in their minds. So we said, okay, maybe we'll do it for just a few years, but that defeats the whole.

S. Simon Jacob: 28:51

Not a few years meaning like 10, 20 years, 20 years, but that still defeats the purpose, because if I'm trying to build my kids, a legacy it's not like a legacy anymore.

Nadav Jesselson : 29:05

It's like, uh, it's like a. So. So what you're saying is uh is for us, it's, uh, it's. I know that's, that's the thing. Let's uh. We have to think. I never thought about actually, we thought about it, but, um, it's, it's. It means pay a lot, a lot of money at the beginning. No, it doesn't.

Ovadiah Jacob: 29:22

You could do it with insurance too, if you are not the one who has to worry about that. If you partner with an insurance company that's going to provide you with that product, then all you have to do is decide up front what the amount is that you need to contract with them for, and then they can give you what is the contractual lump sum you need, and then they can give you the stream of payments that you need over the you know, in perpetuity, the insurance company will be the one paying for it.

Ovadiah Jacob: 29:47

Yeah, so you're just part of it. You don't have to figure that out.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:50

If not the insurance company, it's your annuity, it's your family's annuity or your trust's annuity.

Nadav Jesselson : 30:02

You would put the vineyard in trust. Amazing.

Ovadiah Jacob: 30:06

I'm surprised they're not doing that now talk to me about the Qum mitzvot that comes with you know participation so we talk about the legacy, the land.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:15

We talk about the money. Now let's talk about Tachlis. What are the mitzvot you can get from doing this? All of the mitzvot at Leot.

Nadav Jesselson : 30:22

Baritz Literally Go ahead, go ahead. Tell me no, give me a test now. No no, no, no it's problematic because I I'm not knowledgeable enough, or as much as I would want to be, as far as the mitzvot at Leot Ba'al. But first of all, of course, you have Shemitah, which is maybe, I think, the highlight of mitzvot at Leot Ba'al, the suit by which the Jewish people merit the land of Israel, and basically we give the option to do whatever you want in your parcel for the Shemitah.

Nadav Jesselson : 30:53

So you could say this year I'm not doing anything and then we'll prepare for that. We'll do probably pruning much earlier and one year we'll do. And if you want Otzar Bedin or Ter Mechira, whatever you want, then we have the Orla, which we're gonna be next year already after, and then we have, of course, the Neta Revai. Next year we're gonna be in Neta Revai. We had Neta Rivai here last year and it was. That was amazing. Who knows, maybe next year already Neta Rivai is going to be literally taken to Yerushalayim and eating it there. You have a party. So we have Neta Rivai. Urla Shemitah. There's also the actually that I did learn lately. So we have neta revay, urla shmita. There's also the actually that I did learn lately olelot.

Nadav Jesselson : 31:48

How does it go, peret? When you harvest, you have to leave the little clusters on the vine. You're not allowed to take them off. You're leaving them for the aniim. I forgot. So, peret, ve'olilot, something like that, right? So I think that I learned about it, that it means that there's no, and katif, meaning the cluster usually is like a triangle, right? So if there's no katif, no shoulders, you have to leave it or something like that. But that's only when an'im literally come to take it. If they don't, you take everything off.

Ovadiah Jacob: 32:28

You don't have to leave and you don't even have to give some pidyon for it. What about pe'ah for the corners of the field?

Nadav Jesselson : 32:36

So I think that pe'ah isah is correct me, if I'm wrong is for wheat, not for the vineyards, but I have to look into it more. Some people, actually we're trying to work now with an amazing guy by the name of Ari. He's a wine. You know the site, maybe Kiddush. They sell wine. It's his site. Anyways, he does marketing and not sales, mostly marketing. He's a very brilliant guy.

Nadav Jesselson : 33:15

So we met him and what was nice? That he said I've seen your site already. And I said when? And he said a very long time ago, we had the same idea him and two of his friends, somebody had an achala not far from here and they were going to do he said we weren't going to do another winery. So we said, well, let's do something special. And they went towards the fact of Mitzvot, hapiot Baritz, to selling mitzvot. I don't know why, but I felt that. So that definitely you're getting that, definitely you're part of that. But that wasn't going to be. You know, come do mitzvahs and give me money and do mitzvahs. That wasn't kind of me. When I started, somebody came to me it was right, we planted right before Shemitah. And then somebody came to me, somebody that I met through a period where I worked with Turgim and he came and he wanted to buy the olive grove in order to sell it to people so they could do Shemitah. I don't know why I felt uncomfortable with that, because they were're a combination of doing mitzvot.

S. Simon Jacob: 34:29

So I wanted to do that with. I wanted to do that with fields where you know to tell a farmer you have to keep Shemitah and you don't have any support for that I always thought that that was crazy in order to give the farmer support for keeping Shemitah, so fund him some money.

Nadav Jesselson : 34:58

So there's a Keran Hashmitah. You've heard of it. Yes, so my friend across the street, he worked with him a lot. He went to the states a lot. You've heard of it. Yes, so my friend across the street, he worked with him a lot. He went to the States a lot also to raise money for it. I think he did Otzar Betim. Okay, but still, when you do Otzar Betim you could put a big sign. Kan Shomrim Shemitah? You know that. You've seen those signs?

S. Simon Jacob: 35:19

Oh, I didn't know you can do that.

Nadav Jesselson : 35:21

Yeah, if you're doing a Tzahar Beitin, you can put up a sign. That's what he did. This is already a deal. What's Shemitah and what's not? Maybe it's also I'm going a little bit to politics, but as far as I'm concerned, we did a Ter Mechira. We didn't have fruit, but we did a Ter Mechira and Anishomer Shemitah, meaning, if I believe that this is, this is halacha. So people ask me do you keep Shemitah? Yes, I make more money and I keep Shemitah. Otherwise I don't make more money, so I don't keep it, but of course, I keep Shemitah. I think that Shemitah is one of the most amazing concepts in the Israeli Jewish agriculture.

S. Simon Jacob: 36:06

It's also to be honest. People think that they know Shemitah. They know what they're talking about with Shemitah. 99% of the people don't know. Even the Rebbeim don't know. I remember I used to. I used to not touch anything with Shemitah. I wouldn't touch any wine that had had to Mechira or Otzer B'din or anything. I wouldn't touch it. It's Shemitah, I don't want anything to do with it, what have you? But that was a mentality that I derived from living in Galut, Living in Israel. If somebody's keeping Shemitah like Otzer B'din or what have you, it's a mitzvah to drink this wine, it's a huge deal to drink it and it's not. I mean, this isn't something I can take the bottle and take it to America and what have you. You really shouldn't do that. I don't know whether people have culotte to do that or not, but I I wouldn't do that. But but then I'd also at the same time make sure I drank every drop of it, my father used to finish the bottle yeah, pour water into it and drink the water and drink it again.

S. Simon Jacob: 37:22

That's what I, what I do. I do that, but that's actually. That's a situation. It's not just a chumrah that's wearing a belt. That's for the fun of it. That's wearing a belt and suspenders.

Nadav Jesselson : 37:33

That's not even a chumrah that's for the fun of it. There's nothing in there. That's a belt.

Ovadiah Jacob: 37:37

I agree, I agree.

S. Simon Jacob: 37:46

So, as I said, that's like wearing a belt and suspenders, it's like extra, but I think that that's an incredible thing to be able to give people an ability to practice halachot that they don't have access to.

Nadav Jesselson : 38:02

First of all, it's on my to-do list and hopefully soon that I want to learn the issues you know really deep. At the end of the day, the first year I kept here, shemitah, was an unbelievable experience. Again, we did a ter mechira. But even if you're doing a ter mechira, you can't prune by yourself. You have to bring non-Jews to do it. So we were in the last year of designing, or the first year of designing, and even though we had a whole diyun with the kashrut of Carmel, and with who did we talk to? We talked to a few people from Rabbanim that know the thing, and we, we, what the dune was, is this considered zmira? Because zmira is, is is the hardest. You know the akhi su, and he said no, that well.

Nadav Jesselson : 38:59

So we did it only with uh, with uh palestinians who worked here, and I was walking in the vineyard with my clipper. It was in the pocket for the whole year. You couldn't take it out. Even when you see something that you have to cut, you couldn't take it out. It's like Shabbos. This is Yosef. You remember Yosef? Shalom, abraha, how are you, simon, jacob, simon, let's maybe, maybe, move you out of the sun.

Ovadiah Jacob: 39:22

I'm okay, that's how it moves A little bit to the left. I'm good You're going to be in the sun more and more I like sun.

Nadav Jesselson : 39:28

Okay, perfect, baruch Hashem. Baruch Hashem Yosef is before we were talking about Miluim, so he came back Thursday, going back today, tomorrow, tomorrow he's in Syria Working hard in Syria At.

S. Simon Jacob: 39:45

Tomorrow he's in Syria Working hard in Syria. At least it's not cold. At least it's not cold now. Huh, At night it's cold, cold, really.

Nadav Jesselson : 39:53

That's the Golan. The Golan has unbelievable. The Golan is, you know, I envy the Golan for their grapes. Anything they grow there is unbelievable. Between the shifts he's going all over the vineyards there. You know, learning, looking, because the Golan was the first place where they made a quality wine. You know, a gift from God. It's amazing.

Nadav Jesselson : 40:18

And he came here. He came here to live in the caravan and it was perfect because it was when we planted the vineyard, the younger vineyard, and I really wanted somebody to be here all the time. You know, if there's a problem with the watering or something like that, because we had in the first experience, in the first planting, we had issues. So the fact that somebody was here all the time kept us calm and it was a win-win. Because they were looking for a place to put their caravan and we needed someone and it was a much not fun.

Nadav Jesselson : 40:50

And since the war started and he had a different job and since the war started, he was in medellin for a few months. I was in medellin for a few months and when we met after a few months he said I was looking again, I was looking for a worker and he was looking for something more stable because, because he was independent and he was working in pruning trees, he was looking for something, you know, a job with a paycheck. So again, we had a little chashot because we were like family, so what, you're going to work for me or whatever. Got over that and for the last two years it's been amazing, almost, uh, and he cares for the vineyard. That's, at the end, that's what we want people who work with me. I need their home yeah, who are owners?

Ovadiah Jacob: 41:37

they want to be owners, so so for the 27 unsold plots at this point in time, have you started the process at all, or is it or meaning they're already partway through the Orla process or it's still undeveloped? They?

Nadav Jesselson : 41:51

are in the third year of Orla. Next year we're harvesting Hand harvest and we're going to make wine at the winery together, in the winery in Safririm, with Hiday Hiday. That's his wine. Here I'll just read the back for you, because you're going to like this, I think, because it's also your Rebbe, I think, in wine.

Nadav Jesselson : 42:20

If I remember correctly, in the first year we gave our offering in the field next to the garden, of the seed, of the seed, the seed that is in the depth of the field. In the years that followed they added to it also a part of olives, shalom, and in every work I did I tasted the taste of the tree as if it were real fruit. I drank this wine and drank it from the fruits of the tree and from my heart, and also from the heart of my friend, my teacher and rabbi, the Yinan Yaakov Uriah. Every day I go to the field, from it to it. It is a local wine that I chose and inside it is the Nitzav HaSulam. Remember, this is a local wine. It's like there's Aleph. He calls the Ayn Mekomi Because there's Aleph Darad Gordon.

Nadav Jesselson : 43:10

You know the name. He was the. They call him the Rav of the Chalutzim. You know the days were we're talking about before the establishment of the state Right? So there was Aleph Darad Gordon. He was in the days of Rav Kook and he was not religious. So it was Aleph Dalet Gordon. He was in Days of Arav Kook and he was not religious. But what he wrote and the things he did, he was, you know, he was their Moray Aruchani and he has a thing that he said Ve'od nizkarti this is Aleph Dalet Gordon, ve'od nizkarti. Ve'ineh sulam mutzav arza ve'rosho megia ha'shameima U'ma anu.

Nadav Jesselson : 43:51

So I love this because we have the parushim in Yaakov right, that he is the ladder Right, and they say about Yaakov that he is his head. Yes, we are the ladder. We have Shammai and Eretz inside of us. So he says what are we looking for if not a place to put our ladder? I love that. So he calls it Mikomi. He's building a winery behind his house. Our connection is that when I planted the Dan Bat amazing guy who was my consultant, he was my for the vineyard and he said listen, you have to meet Idai because he's also planting. Go see what he's doing and learn from him. And we clicked immediately and since then we're a chavuta learning Gemara together. He's not religious.

Nadav Jesselson : 44:38

Which makes it for me even more interesting. He's very knowledgeable, he's very into Hasidut again, but he's super not religious. So I'm saying he's not religious, Shomer Mitzvot, but he talks about Ani Malen, Yitzotzot, Mea Arez when he goes into the vineyard. It's something really special and interesting. You know what?

S. Simon Jacob: 45:06

Somebody needs to talk to him. I'll tell you why Because it's not about connecting to the Rabbanut, it's about connecting to the Kadesh Baruch Hu. That's all. That's the whole discussion. I mean, you can have all sorts of disagreements with rabbis or Rebbeim or the Rabbanut as a whole, but the thing that you can't, you know, like when a person says he's Hiloni, you know, unfortunately, the blockage is the Rabbanut and they've got to realize that that doesn't make a difference, it doesn't mean anything. You can't be Hiloni from Kaddish Baruch Hu. That's what you need to be connected to and that's it. And that's what it sounds like. It sounds like he's connected to Kaddish Baruch Hu, but he doesn't want to deal with his groups, the middlemen who are on the ground. Wow.

Nadav Jesselson : 46:16

I've heard somebody say once the problem isn't the Yahadut, the problem is the Yehudim.

S. Simon Jacob: 46:23

Please God, it won't be. Please God, it won't be. Please God, it won't be.

Nadav Jesselson : 46:26

I don't totally agree. I don't totally disagree with that saying and I totally agree with you I think there's also, I don't know what to tell you. I envy him the way he talks about his vineyard, because that's like something I want to achieve, walking here and being in such. That's the whole thing from understanding. Like something I want to achieve, walking here and being in such irat shamayim and ahavat Hashem.

S. Simon Jacob: 46:48

That's a that's the whole thing.

Nadav Jesselson : 46:49

From understanding, I think he experiences what you know, what we're talking about the land and the kudusha the land.

S. Simon Jacob: 46:56

That's what I want. To make sure he understands that, that that I get that he does.

Nadav Jesselson : 47:02

He says I'll just I. I get that. He does. He says I'll just so. If you talk to him, he doesn't believe in God. That's like it's not only the Rabbanut which he definitely has issues with, but he says God is in your heart, or stuff like that. You know.

S. Simon Jacob: 47:20

There is no God. Okay, so Albert Einstein was the same. I just finished a biography by him. It's such a pity. He's such a spiritual person. He was such an incredibly spiritual person. He believed that there was a creator, but he didn't believe that anybody could have a direct connection with the creator. That's like the philosoph that the creator does not come. He read a lot of philosophy. He was German and what have you. He read all of the rubbish so he believed that God would be there. God is there, but he doesn't care about me. Why would he care about me? I'm a little pizzola and the truth is that's so sad. Because you're a ladder, because you grasp the universe.

Nadav Jesselson : 48:09

This is like you're.

S. Simon Jacob: 48:10

Avraham Avinu. You see that this is all not random. I mean, he said his whole life, God does not throw dice. He realized that it's not random, that everything is there because of God, that God has a plan, but that he wasn't part of the plan, that he wasn't he, that he he wasn't, he didn't have a kesher into it except as like one of the pieces of that.

S. Simon Jacob: 48:37

We're moving and it's like so sad. It's like not knowing your father, knowing that your father there, but not ever knowing that you could talk to him. So it's sad, it's a sad situation. But you know Baruch Hashem there's a lot of people and if you look at what's his name Acher he, I think, very strongly believes in God. But he believed in God from a perspective of what we need to do is God is so real that the only way to get him to pay any attention to me is for me to zets him. You know there's children who like that. There are children who you have who are the perfect children. They take care, they do everything that you would want them to do. There's other children who are the worst. They're the most difficult.

Nadav Jesselson : 49:36

And they connect through the pinching.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:38

Yeah, they want to know that you're remembering them. They want to know that you're there.

Nadav Jesselson : 49:44

Wow, I never heard that about Achiel.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:46

It's definitely, it's, definitely. This is exactly what he did, and when he saw other people breaking the rules, he said no, no, you can't do this, it's wrong.

Nadav Jesselson : 49:55

When he was walking with a male.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:57

Yeah, with a horse.

Nadav Jesselson : 49:58

And he told him to stop.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:59

You're going out of the out of the out of home. You know you? That's ridiculous. If you don't believe in god, why would you say that to a person? So I I really believe it's like he felt that he wanted god so much that he was trying to stick him in order to get him to deal with him directly you know, we do that, we all do that, we all do things from different places.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:26

Okay, tell me a little bit about what sort of simchat have you had here, what sort of special occasions I participated in? A dinner Right, that was like one of the most incredible.

Nadav Jesselson : 50:42

We're having another one this year, wow, and I hope you come. I would love to Perfect, are you kidding? And this time we're having it one this year, one of the most incredible. We're having another one this year, wow, and I hope you come. I would love to Perfect, are you kidding? And this time we're having it with Hiday. Like I said, hiday is a special guy. He's a chef. We have to try it. You have to open it. You can't Perfect. Okay, hiday, he has a thing there. He's a vegan, exactly.

Nadav Jesselson : 51:06

It's a coffee shop with the whole concept of from farm to table. His brother is running the farm in the Aravah and almost everything that they're serving there is from the farm, or they know exactly where from. They're not buying from a middleman, they're buying directly from the Chaklein. So he is going to prepare us a meal. He's going to prepare us a special meal here. Hopefully, we're going to have some talks. It's going to be different from last year. We're doing something a little different, not with a whole sitting and everything. No, we're going to have a table.

S. Simon Jacob: 51:44

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be so fancy, exactly so, exactly, exactly. A little less formal, okay, but that was over the top, so incredibly beautiful.

S. Simon Jacob: 51:54

Yeah, that's what we want to do there's so many people I wish had experienced that. It was like my wife is. Is is not a formal person. She doesn't like makeup. She doesn't like all of this shtick. She's very. I would take her out to a fancy restaurant. She would laugh at me. She likes a picnic. She doesn't like anything fancy. You're lucky, you know. It took me years before I realized how lucky I was. It really took me years. So all of a sudden, when we came to this dinner, she said this is the best.

Nadav Jesselson : 52:35

This is the best we've ever experienced. It makes me so happy that you're saying that, because I think that that is what we're trying to do, that it's high class. But Eretz Israel, you know from the ground, 100%. You know nothing. That's just shiny, with no token, with no substance, yeah, substance.

S. Simon Jacob: 53:04

That was an incredible experience, absolutely incredible experience. The people, I think everybody who was there was blown away. There wasn't anybody who came yeah, it was really. It was really fun, it was really didn't feel like, wow, what an incredible curated experience to have. So so has anybody done bar mitzvot or bat mitzvot? We had here weddings. Okay, how did they do that? Where did they have them?

Nadav Jesselson : 53:34

Right here In the olive grove we have the dancing was over there. Here you have tables. The way the events I call them the private events, not the uh on a vibe events the way the events evolved here is that we had our daughters, but mitzvah again, the whole concept sharing and connecting. So, whatever we're experiencing, I want to share this amazing experience. So we had our daughters by mitzvah, actually in the middle of the vineyard, um, because then also the younger vineyard wasn't there yet, so we could park everybody over there. And then, uh, my daughter met her friend who said that her sister just, uh, um, the vineyard where she was supposed to get married in canceled on them, so they were looking. So she offered her, my daughter offered her sister, daughter, offer no the old one said we just had our event.

Nadav Jesselson : 54:28

Maybe you want to do talk to my father, and that's it.

Nadav Jesselson : 54:31

And he came here. Amazing people, our neighbors actually. They are from uh aderet and now they moved to nechusha where we live, yeah, and they had their wedding here and it it's amazing. I think that weddings are the best and just to give an example of what I mean, that when I had here one of the weddings we had here last year so a friend of mine, it was a friend of my brother actually and another friend told me, he looked at me and he said this is the best. How do you say fertilizer? Yeah, yeah, this is the best fertilizer. You is the best fertilizer for the land, and that's how I feel. So we can't do too much because at the end you're not allowed. No, you can get. You can't gethurim for it. You can get authorization to do an event, but if you do a lot of events, it becomes a garden right, an event. Ulam er-ruim, yeah, ulam er-ruim. And that's not. First, that's not what I want to do. Second, of all, it could get us not in trouble, but it could do problems.

Nadav Jesselson : 55:46

You don't want that. So what happened is the sister of the guy who built this amazing pergola got married here and later, after she got married, I understood that she is a very known wedding organizer and we connected and we felt that we could trust and, at the end of the day, anybody who comes today, she's our wedding organizer. So we don't take any money at all for the place. In different places they take a lot for you to do an event, but because I don't want that to be the issue and I want to do it, you know from the heart. So what we did is at the beginning we used to meet the couple and then we used to meet their wedding organizer and we have to see, and then we have to tell them you have to be careful here and careful there. And we had a wedding which wasn't bad, but it was hard with the wedding organizer. We didn't feel that she was with us, you know, and taking care all in. So with Batia, that's the girl, that's the wedding organizer. She cares for the vineyard as if she's one of Anava's employees. So anybody who calls us today even though it's hard for me to tell them, no, you have to go through Patia, but a few calls and now that's what I'm doing all the time. Even a friend of a brother, of a friend of my brother, which I love, came here last week, thursday, with his fiance the cutest, amazing, amazing. That's all again, I love it. I love to meet these couples. He's from the Gush, she's from Weizmann, from Rehovot. Really the worlds are connected really. And he had a wedding organized already and even though I know him and I love him and everything, I told him listen, you got to go through Batia and I hope it works, and if it doesn't again, I can never tell people no. Also, so she does it for me and she's very good because she knows when, when it's not. You know, if someone just wants to have a crazy party here, that's not not here. Don't come in, yeah, don't come to my. I'm inviting you into my house, yeah, which is a zchut for me. You know to call this house and um, so she takes care of it. So we, we have mainly weddings.

Nadav Jesselson : 58:24

There was going to be a bar mitzvah, but then the war with Iran burst out Somebody actually from. That's interesting. That's not through Bat Yad, it's through a friend of ours from Yerushalayim. She's a very high class organizer and she was going to be A family wanted to do something with Miluim Nikim and something you know a bar mitzvah with uh uh.

Nadav Jesselson : 58:48

So I brought a friend of mine who is doing endless miluim much more than me and he has his own company. He builds uh greenhouses for mainly for uh schools and and stuff like that um, and he gives them also uh education there and everything to then they have the schools, have a greenhouse where they plant stuff and go through uh educational process. So they were going to build one here. I was going to bring him and then they were going to benefit for the miluimnik and do something and have their event here.

Nadav Jesselson : 59:25

Uh, that at the end again the war came, and then they stayed in Miami to do their bar mitzvah, as far as I know. So I think we have to celebrate this land as much as we can, mainly weddings meanwhile, but what we're doing now is also, until we have anava members, when we'll have Anava members, we're going to stop everything that's going to be from outside, because it's going to be only for the Anava members. When we'll have Anava members, we're going to stop everything that's going to be from outside, because it's going to be only for the Anava members, but until then we'll see. Thank you so much thank you so much.

S. Simon Jacob: 59:58

Wow, I tried to surprise you. You surprised me. Please tune in again next week for part two of our episode with Nadav Jesselson and the Anava Vineyard. This is Simon Jacob, again your host of today's episode of The Kosher Terroir. I have a personal request no matter where you are or where you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldiers' safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you're new to The Kosher Terroir, please check out our many past episodes.