S. Simon Jacob: 0:09

Welcome to The Kosher Terroir. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, I ask that, wherever you are, please take a moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all of our hostages. Today we are journeying to the heart of Israel's Sharon coastal plain to visit Vitkin Winery, a trailblazer in the Israeli Anything but Cabernet or Chardonnay, Vitkin has championed grapes like Carignan, Grenache, and Petit Syrah, crafting wines that truly express the unique terroir of the region. Renaissance. Founded in 2001, Vitkin Winery has been at the forefront of introducing Mediterranean varietals to the Israeli wine scene, with a philosophy dubbed ABC.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:08

In this episode, we sit down with chief winemaker Assaf Paz, whose journey from pastry chef to oenologist has been nothing short of inspiring. Trained in Bordeaux and seasoned in wineries across California and Australia, Assaf brings a global perspective to Wittgen's winemaking process. We delve into the challenges and triumphs of recent vintages, discuss how the ongoing regional tensions have impacted viticulture and explore the latest innovations at Wittgen's Visitor Center. Whether you're a seasoned inophile or new to the world of kosher wines, this conversation offers a deep dive into the passion and resilience that define Vitkin Winery. So pour yourself a glass of delicious kosher wine and join us as we explore the stories behind one of Israel's most dynamic wineries. Thank you very much for inviting me to Vitkin.

Assaf Paz: 2:09

So I just call Yossi to bring us some samples.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:12

Good we'll do it. Can you walk us through the latest vintage? What stood out for you this year in the vineyard and in the cellar? What's special about this year?

Assaf Paz: 2:23

So the 2024. And then the cellar what's special about this year? So the 2024. So we're talking about the first harvest after October 7th and practically during the war and I think this is the base of the perspective to the whole harvest. The vines obviously, obviously continued to grow, nature didn't stop, the winter was relatively good and gave us enough precipitation and cool weather. But the fact that we were in this terrible situation affected the vines even in things that we can't imagine.

Assaf Paz: 3:11

And when I thought about it, especially after the harvest, I realized that everything counts. You know, everything counts. First of all, it was a tiny harvest, very, very low yield. I I don't remember this, that drop of of yields. All over the country there were vineyards that it was not so much like 10 to 20, even 25. That starts to be significant. And we had even one vineyard that had a drop of 70% of the crop.

Assaf Paz: 3:52

And there you start to have a problem you have all your needs in juice, in wine, in grapes, and you don't have them, or you have very, very little, of course. Or is amazing, all the qualities of all the wires is spectacular because everything is so concentrated. But we need the. We need also the, the quality, the volume, exactly so, and when I thought about it, we said it was weather. But if you don't have the labor that you need and it was a big problem of labor because a lot of people are in the army soldiers, reserves, many people we stopped working with certain sectors. It's okay, it doesn't affect you. No, it's okay. It doesn't affect you. No, it's okay. Okay, we stopped working with certain sectors because we had a blockage on the Sumerian Judea and so, in general, you have less supply of workers, so it's also affected.

Assaf Paz: 5:12

And during the time of pruning of the vineyards, it was in the winter of the end of 2023, the beginning of 2024, you know, highest point of tension back then there were many, many vineyards that was complicated or unsafe to go into and some vineyards weren't pruned and weren't treated because it was just in front of Hezbollah in Lebanon and people, for good reason, didn't want to go there. Some vineyards were closed by the army. So, and everybody knows that the pruning quality, but also the pruning timing, affects quality but eventually volume of grapes. So eventually there are many, many things that we didn't even thought about that affected the quality of the harvest. So I call it the harvest of October 7th or the harvest of the war?

S. Simon Jacob: 6:26

Yeah, because the actual, the 2023 harvest actually come in before October 7th for the most part.

Assaf Paz: 6:38

More than 90% of the grapes were already in the wineries we lost the staff to be able to make the wine.

Assaf Paz: 6:46

We were very stressed after October 7 because I didn't know if we would be able to put the wines in barrels. We were left. We were in a very good situation because 23 was relatively early harvest and we finished picking all of the grapes before Rosh Hashanah and we were left with a single small vat to press of great grapes that was supposed to be pressed just after Simchat Torah. And we were in a good situation because there were many wineries that had still fruit outside, quality wineries especially. I remember talking with a lot of them and they were in real crisis. So we were relatively in a good position, but again, relatively.

Assaf Paz: 7:43

It's not very good when you're afraid that you bring stuff to press the tank and you don't know if missiles will hit you or whether you'll be able to put the wines into barrels in the right timing. 100%, oh, potato salad. Anyway, we so, if you pass that, the harvest was amazing in quality, disappointing in quantity and volume and we still had a lot of issues with stuff. We normally outside of the harvest off harvest. We have only two workers in the wine in the cellar. One of them was recruited.

S. Simon Jacob: 8:44

So you were like 50% In Miloim.

Assaf Paz: 8:47

Yeah, 50% of your stuff is in Miloim, but I can say today that 2024 gave us a few of the most outstanding white and rosé wines that we ever made. The red are still in barrels but they look very promising.

S. Simon Jacob: 9:06

So of the varietals, were there any surprises? Yeah, negative or positive.

Assaf Paz: 9:13

There was. There weren't any bad surprises, you know, except the problem of the lack of volume. But we have one specific, very exciting, delicious white wine that we did for the first time. As far as I know, it's the first time that anybody did it in Israel. We're going to expose it, to launch it on May 18th, when we're going to expose the new harvest of the Shoreshim Reds, our ancestry wine. It's called Shoreshim Zayin, the seventh Shoreshim from the harvest of 2018. Spectacular wine. We made this wine only in exceptional vintages. This is the seventh edition of this wine, even though we're going to celebrate this harvest our 26th harvest.

S. Simon Jacob: 10:24

But this is only the seventh of that and it's from 2018? Yeah, 2018.

Assaf Paz: 10:30

Wow, pardon me, our 25th harvest Started in 2001.

S. Simon Jacob: 10:37

Looking back at the 23, 24 vintages, what do you think will define them in Wittgen's wine story?

Assaf Paz: 10:45

From the bad side of the story, it was that those were a harvest of a lot of stress and anxiety and anger and sadness. You know we were mourning people that we love and you, I went to visit people that lost their loved ones and in like a big volume and a lot of visits, a lot of people that we knew and gone, it touched all of us. We made few wines as a memorial wines. You know we special labels for people that are are not or no longer with us and and we don't know those people you know it was. One of them was a girl that was killed in the nova Festival and Her sister approached us and she was a big fan of our winery and she especially loved the white Israeli journey. So we we donated I don't remember how many cases of white Israel journey with the label with her picture on it, and another guy for near, from nearby a Village that we did the same for him.

Assaf Paz: 12:08

But from the other side, maybe a little bit more positive side, we saw the strength of the people of Israel. We saw the strength of the whole good civilians of this country, how we can work together, how we can help each other and you know, all those big, horrible events give you perspective. Sometimes we are, you know, sucked into our own small fights and you know disagreements and those big, mega, very sad, traumatic events shows you that sometimes you need to concentrate in the positive side of life and choose your battles, and that was the meaning of this harvest for us. So I think, all in all, everybody worked. We always have good people in the winery, but the dedication of the workers that we had this year was unbelievable.

S. Simon Jacob: 13:14

Are there any vineyard blocks or specific wines from recent vintages that are especially meaningful or symbolic because of what's going?

Assaf Paz: 13:22

on. We had many vineyards that we couldn't visit during the heavy you know big tension and activities with Lebanon. Yeah, especially in the north.

S. Simon Jacob: 13:34

I saw I was up north. I saw what was going on? It was, it was unbelievable, crazy.

Assaf Paz: 13:39

Yeah, there were vineyards that I called the farmer and I called him. I want to come on Monday visiting you, visit the vineyard. I called the farmer and I called him. I want to come on Monday visiting you. I said, asaf, don't come, don't come, it's crazy, I don't want you to get hurt.

S. Simon Jacob: 13:51

Everything is on fire.

Assaf Paz: 13:52

Yeah, everything is on fire and you know we have rockets flying over our heads.

Assaf Paz: 13:59

There were some vineyards were in strategic places near bases, or you know that the Hezbollah tried to target and so I got into a situation that I don't tell them and I just take my car and go off, I don't tell the farmers and I don't tell my wife especially, that I'm going to see the vineyards, because I have to see the vineyards. But everybody is very anxious about this and I went up and there were more than a couple of times that shit happens, things happen around me. I know. You know there was a couple of times that drones exploded a few hundred meters from me, that drones exploded a few hundred meters from me, explosive like suicide drones or missiles. All the time airplanes flying around you. You know fighter jets and you know what's the most scary thing when you're less than 100 meters from an Iron Dome battery and sometimes you don't even realize it's there, and suddenly a missile is shooting to target a threat that's coming from somewhere and you're not realizing what is it?

Assaf Paz: 15:19

You see that something has happened and then you realize it's just an Iron Dome missile that went to actually protect you. But it's as much as scary, the noise and the yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 15:32

It's crazy, yeah, yeah.

Assaf Paz: 15:34

So it was very challenging and I'm the type of farmer who's very, you know, hands-on in the vineyards. I don't let my farmers do any decision, any major decision, without me visiting the vineyard and checking and see that it's okay. And it was like sometimes a self-control to try to trust them in the places that I can trust them and I know that they are doing a good job, and to be very fast and thorough in the cases that they have to go into the vineyards, especially to taste grace before harvesting things that nobody can replace me right, and to see that everything is going on, you know, taking care of business, and see that things are going on according to your specific plans, because every winemaker has his own approach and we have only one harvest a year and you need that harvest to be perfect.

S. Simon Jacob: 16:32

That leads me to a question that I often ask winemakers that's amazing cheese. I don't know what that is. Ah, it's the smoked one. It's smoked, yeah, it's smoked, it's incredible cheese.

Assaf Paz: 16:42

This is Kitchota from Jakobs from Faroe. This is Smoky Gouda from Bet Yitzchak, the village on the other side. So we're very local also in products ok, very cool.

S. Simon Jacob: 16:54

Where is wine made? In the vineyard or in the winery?

Assaf Paz: 17:05

I can tell you things that for me, wine is a big symbol of marriage, marriage between few things. First of all, it's the meeting point of science and art. Ok, you said it in many podcasts that you that you did that it's a form of art, it's an art craft and it is. But without the science it will be very hard to to repeat your success. So this is the meeting point between those two fields that are completely different, and it's a marriage between God and man, because God creates the grapes and the weather and the condition and the terroir, and man is taking it from there and can make many things out of it from the results. He can sometimes modify the potential of the terroir if he's working harder, of what he got, and the quality of the wine. Of course, we always say it's 100% grapes. We want to see it like that and this is like the rule. It's not like beer and it's not like gin or vermouth, where you can spice things according to your desire. You know you can be. You can craft a beer with with coffee beans. You can craft a beer with the herbs, you whatever you want, flowers and fruits.

Assaf Paz: 18:38

In the case of wine, this is a big taboo. You cannot modify the wine from the exterior. You can. You base only on the quality of the grapes and the process. The only aromatics that you can add is the barrel aging, the barrel maturing, so it's basically 100% grapes, and if you have good grapes it's amazing, and if you have bad grapes, so I don't know what you can do with it.

Assaf Paz: 19:04

But you can destroy 100% of the quality or diminish it if you do things not correctly. Take, for example, the harvest. You can have amazing grapes. You miss the harvest point or you pick it much too early. You don't have the potential that you you can get. It depends on the grapes, but you can lose or you can augment the quality of the grapes in the winery according to the process process that you're making. It's like in cooking you can make an amazing steak. You just need the right meat right, the right piece of meat that comes from the right source and the right butcher and the right aging and so on. But if you don't use the right pan or the right heat or the right seasoning, you can totally ruin it yeah, you can ruin it.

S. Simon Jacob: 20:02

So it's both Among the new releases and upcoming projects. What can wine lovers look forward to?

Assaf Paz: 20:10

I don't know in general, but I can imagine that we will see more drinkable wines. I would love to see they're more approachable. I would love to see more approachable wines, more juicy wines, overwhelming wines. Okay, I always say that in the first few years of Witkin we send wines to competition and in the last 15 years we haven't, because we don't aim for competition. We don't aim for wine judges. Even though I'm an international wine judge in competitions in Germany and in Israel and in other places.

Assaf Paz: 20:57

I know how to craft a double gold winner wine. It's not a big issue for me, but I don't want to make those wines because I think that eventually, the wines I want to make would be delicious for the crowds and not for the wine competitions. It's not always the same. Sometimes it is, but sometimes a wine that gains double gold.

Assaf Paz: 21:24

It will take it many, many years to be ready to drink and I want my wines to be most of the, my wines to be more drinkable, more approachable and more delicious, angel and then enjoyable, and I think that most of the of the producers are going towards this, realizing that in our climate it's better to drink more white wines and rosé and in the red wine section you need them lighter and more approachable.

Assaf Paz: 21:59

Okay, so we need to this thing that lighter doesn't mean we need to distinguish, that lighter doesn't mean diluted in any way, yeah, or to lose quality. Take, for example, our Pinot Noir or our Grenache Noir. They are lighter in color, they are lighter in their body, but they are so amazing and full of flavors and aromas, so you don't compromise. And aromas, so you don't compromise. You shouldn't compromise the intensity and the concentration of the aromas if the wines are lighter. That's what I think will happen and I hope that what Witkin started 25 years ago to make typical local Mediterranean wines and made a small revolution by it, I hope and I think it will continue and people will make more and more wines with local style and less and less wines with international style.

S. Simon Jacob: 23:01

Are there new experimental varietals that you're dealing with that you didn't deal with before?

Assaf Paz: 23:09

Yeah, all the time. I cannot tell, of course, because it's the R&D. One of them is the one that we're going to launch. It's a new wine, it's a new approach. It's a new wine, it's a new approach and it's something that we always try to find a balance in this area between always looking for something exciting and new and keeping the tradition that we created, and focusing and making the wines that we are already making better and better, and keep the style of each and one of them. So if you loved our old vine, karin Jan, five years ago, you will still love it today. Hopefully, you will see an increase in the quality, but not a big, drastic change in the style.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:08

Has your winemaking philosophy changed over the past few years?

Assaf Paz: 24:22

It's certainly changed from my first years but you know, as I'm getting more experience, the change is smaller with every year. In the beginning, as a young winemaker, I wanted to impress. I wanted, you know, bigger, the bigger the better, the blacker the better, more intense wines that will impress people, higher maturity and so on. Sometimes it's coming from a younger point of view or less security in what you're doing, or less experience. You see the grapes of a certain vineyard, let's say Cabernet Sauvignon, maturing, you're tasting it, you feel that they are ripe and they are ready. But since you have little experience, you say maybe we should wait another week. I'm not sure. If we take it now, maybe it won't be enough. Let's wait another week and then we'll be sure that everything is okay and they are fully ripe. Let's wait another week and then we'll be sure that everything is okay and they are fully ripe.

Assaf Paz: 25:31

And in that week you can get over the top in terms of sugar, in terms of alcohol, in terms of fruit profile. You know the flavors can go from very fresh red and black fruit to more jammy, overripe, porty style, and we don't want this. And sometimes it's only my experience and my self-confidence that improves the wine when you see the same grapes, the same area, the same maturity, but sometimes more precise maturity. So of course I change my style and I'm evolving. If you take our first vintages of the Old Vine Carignan and Old Vine Petit Syrah, they are much bigger, higher in alcohol and they're still delicious, but today they're a little bit more elegant and more harmonious. It didn't change dramatically the wine, but I think they're much, much better.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:40

Crafting wines to be more approachable. Do you lose anything on the tail end? Do you lose anything on their ageability or how long they last? How long they.

Assaf Paz: 26:59

That's an amazing question because it's a question that I ask myself every time. I'm doing that, every time I'm going and tilting a little bit to more elegant style that you can enjoy earlier during the bottle aging. So my big challenge is exactly that how you make the wine more elegant, how you make a Petit Syrah that in the past or a Carignan that in the past really needed three to four years bottle aging after we took it out of the barrels and only then release it, and how you make it shorten to maybe two years or one and a half years in the bottle and already after one and a half years it could be approachable. How you make this and not diluate your wine and not taking off concentration and body and intensity. And this is my big challenge.

Assaf Paz: 28:08

Through the years I think it's in the last 10 years maybe, especially since we moved to the big winery I think we managed to do that in a very successful way through better management of the vineyards, more experience that we gained with every even every parcel of vineyard and much better technology that we have today in the winery Better tanks, better cooling system that we can extract as much as we did, but the quality of extraction and the quality of the tannins and the body of the wine is finer, is more elegant. You have the same quantity of extraction but more ready to drink style. Also, we did it through the use of bigger volume of barrels. These are larger barrels.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:18

Larger barrels. What's larger 500?

Assaf Paz: 29:21

Yeah, Okay, 500 liter, mainly 500 liter and some 300 liters. In the past we used 225 to 350. Yeah, and today I'm really happy about the choice of 500 liters. Choice of 500 liters when the barrel is new. You don't feel any change in the intensity of the oak in the first couple of years that the barrel gives, but you feel much more intense fruit over there and in the long term you gain, you cover, less the fruit, so you feel it more in the finished wines and the wines tend to be more elegant, more approachable, or, as the French people love to say, you respect of the fruit, respect of the terroir, and that's how I like to think about it.

Assaf Paz: 30:21

So those are the means that I have my own experience the better management of the vineyards I think the age of the vines also play a big role in it and the technology that we have in the vineyard. So it's always the same trio that supports the high quality of wine production, trio that supports the high quality of wine production. I always look at the wine production as something that's based on three legs, and my sister, who's an architect, always told me three legs is very stable. You know, you put the camera on three legs and so on and tripods, tripod, tripod.

Assaf Paz: 30:59

So it's a tripod. Yeah, you have the quality of the grapes that we discussed. You have the technology that you have in the winery that helps you keep this quality, because you can have the best steak in the world, the best piece of meat, but if you don't have the good means to grill it, you can lose the quality and the know-how you know, the human resource, your own experience, your own skills and talent. So this is the tripod of the wine quality for me.

S. Simon Jacob: 31:40

I believe that that's what defines terroir as well. It's what you start out with as far as the grapes are concerned, coming inbound. It's the procedures that you follow in the winery too, like Solera. The Solera is really a terroir, but it's because they bake the barrels in the sun.

Assaf Paz: 32:01

But this is a terroir that's in the winery, not in the vineyard.

S. Simon Jacob: 32:05

Yeah, no, but it's part of the. It's in the bottle. Yeah, yeah, it's a terroir. That's in the bottle.

Assaf Paz: 32:11

I agree with you in 100%. I always said that terroir. People tend to look at terroir and this is the definition of terroir the geology of the soil, the topography, the height, the distance from the sea, the climate, of course, and so on and nobody looks at the skills of the farmer. For example, I worked in big wineries.

Assaf Paz: 32:43

When you can take grapes, grapes from a certain area, from dozens different plots, and then you, you understand that you have one farmer some of his plots are in the best locations, some are in the less quality location, but all of his grapes are amazing. And you have another farmer who has the same situation regarding the location of his plots Some of them are in the best terroir, some of them are in the lesser quality, but all his grapes are mediocre. And you realize that, okay, the terroir can be amazing, but if you don't treat the vineyards and if you don't do whatever is necessary to get the quality, you won't express it. And the same in the winery Whatever you do in the winery is defining the good expression of the terroir or losing it.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:40

Just a couple questions left and then we're gonna taste some wine, okay. I'm very much looking forward to tasting we're going to taste few, few special exciting things. Okay, yeah, so with vitkin is always, within the Israeli wine culture, been a very special, has a very special place in that culture lighter focused on the Mediterranean varietals rather than heavier red varietals. And how do you see that going forward with Israel? How do you see that going forward with your place in Israel?

Assaf Paz: 34:52

You know, I don't know, I don't remember the source, but there is a phrase in Hebrew that says that only on myself.

Assaf Paz: 34:55

I couldn't tell or express Express about everybody else but not about yourself. Yeah, describe everybody but not myself. And sometimes when other people describe you, I'm citing it because it's much easier for me to talk about myself from their perspective. And it's me, but of course it's.

Assaf Paz: 35:11

Vitkin, bless his soul, was a very special man and one of the most talented wine lovers of Israel. He, he called us the, the, the Carinian or the Mediterranean prophets. He said you're prophets because you, in a way you, you went on the direction that you understood that it's the right direction, even though all the rest told you that it's nonsense. People laughed at you, people misjudged you, underestimated you, and you still went to that direction because you believe that this is the truth. And in the wine it's not easy to do because in the wine business you have many stories and the story is a very big, important tool of you marketing the wine and talking about the wine and explaining the wine. And sometimes we are captive and we are losing ourselves in the story and we let ourselves carry on too much with the stories and not looking at what we have in the glass, the liquid itself, what it gives you, and not the story.

Assaf Paz: 36:29

And when I started to understand that we should make carinian and green ash and other local varieties, mediterranean varieties in a Mediterranean style, varieties in a Mediterranean style. It was from both, from tasting a lot of samples and a lot of wines from similar terroirs to Israel that made very good wines from those varieties, like, like Spain, especially Priorat, which is much heavier style than what we're making today, but at least it showed me the potential and, let's say, the deliciousness and the amazing expression of the wine. And south of France, you know a lot of places in Languedoc-Roussillon and the Carignan of Fitou and other places, and I tasted Carignans from Dry Creek in Sonoma, california and even Australia very rare over there and Grenache especially and so it was experience but also a lot of gut feeling that it should work. And we went, we jumped into the swimming pool, not knowing if there is water inside, because it's nice to make a hobby, do whatever you want, because the worst part, you lose some money.

S. Simon Jacob: 37:54

But you have to be able to sell it.

Assaf Paz: 37:56

Yeah, but if you establish a business and you decide on a philosophy of winemaking which is completely, you know, 90%, 90 degrees to another direction from what everybody else are doing and succeeding of selling their wines, so you're either very smart or very stupid. So, fortunately for us, it worked because we knew that there is truth over there. We knew that those varieties first uh, first and foremost will give a more delicious wine that are adapted to the terroir and the cuisine and and the. You know the temperament of the people, right, also the, the character we are. We are intensive people in Israel. We need something to cool us down, not to make us more angry and more tight, so we want wine that will make us relax. That's what I thought. But also, looking on the terroir, even the birds agreed. I think there is a hawk in this tree.

Assaf Paz: 39:01

That's the reason they're yelling so all of them are nervous, also knowing that those varieties are more adapted to the heat, to the dryness of our country. And you know what? We got the proof in two vintages, in 2010 and 2012. I did, a couple of days ago, I did, a vertical tasting of our old wine, petit Syrah. A group of big wine connoisseurs that taste wines from all over the world invited me because they collected their own collection of old wine Petit Syrah from 2006 to 2013,. Some of them in Magnum version, and they wanted me to be the narrator of this tasting. And I brought another wine and it was amazing. And I brought the Petit Zira 2004, which is still alive, delicious and has even a few more years to age, gracefully. And what we saw? That there were two vintages, 2010 and 2012,. That were extremely hot, maybe the hottest in this decade, and I remember that many colleagues had big problems with this vintage especially, you know, cabernet Sauvignon, merlot and so on.

Assaf Paz: 40:27

and I said that my varieties, like Petit Sirène Carignan, really thrived, they shined in this vintage, in this tough vintage, and it shows that they are well adapted, they feel like this is their home and they're showing beautiful results even in the toughest vintages. So what we did now in Vitkin is really telling everybody Cabernet Sauvignon, merlot, chardonnay, sauvignon Blanc or, as I like to call them, the Fantastic Four, because they are fantastic. They are giving amazing wines in most of the places, in most of the countries, but for me they are a little bit boring. Continue doing them. They are good.

Assaf Paz: 41:16

I don't say don't stop doing them, but open up to new varieties, to new techniques, to new genres of wine and experiment. We are a country that have maybe the longest history of winemaking, but since we had the longest prohibition period, from the 7th century up to the 19th century, we need to learn how to walk again, and you're doing that by experimenting all over the place, in all of the terroirs, with all of the varieties and not with only fantastic four have you tried any of the new, new indigenous?

S. Simon Jacob: 42:00

they call them varieties like like bituni. Have you tried bituni?

Assaf Paz: 42:05

I tried. I think I tried the Marawi, the bituni. We have a few other in our experimental vineyard here in Vitkin from those group of varieties that are exciting. I taste the grapes and they look fantastic. I think this is a big part of Israel wine making and wine style future. Absolutely, because this is the source. This is the source for many, many of the world's varieties, but also this is our source and we need to go back to the source. We need to find where they grow best.

Assaf Paz: 42:46

I know that they have a lot of very good properties that we can use in new vineyards, but we need more time. You know we are Israelis, we're rushing everything. Yeah, we're rushing everything. Sometimes it's good. You know we are Israelis, we're rushing everything. Yeah, we're rushing everything. Sometimes it's good. You know we build your country and a culture and achievements that other nations. It took them 500 to 1,000 years to get where we are after 60 to 80 years, which is very good and very impressive. But sometimes there are things that needs time. I I think that it's exciting. I think it's amazing that people try those varieties and we should try more. The only critic that I have my, my own, my 50 cent about this issue is that we do them from the first.

Assaf Paz: 43:43

Trials were made from vineyards that are located near Hebron, in the Palestinian authorities, in vineyards that were. I know this because they offered me the same grapes and I told them pardon my French. I told them, I told them where can I visit the vineyard? And they said, oh, you cannot visit it because it's very unsecure. It's Palestinian authorities.

Assaf Paz: 44:05

I don't understand. How can I make wine if I don't visit the vineyard? Oh, they will send you samples. How do I know how they grow the vineyards? What's the yield per acre? Maybe they give me grapes, but the concentration could be double if they do some activities and treatments in the vineyards to improve it. So they said, oh, you don't know. You hope for the best. I said I don't know. If I don't pardon my French, if I don't piss in the vineyard, I cannot make the wine from this vineyard. So the only critics that I have is let's do this from the best vineyard that we got. It will take three more years, it will take 10 more years and I think that I know that people planted vineyards with those varieties and I'm really excited to taste those varieties from the vineyards that were planted to make wine, and not from the vineyards that are meant to give table grapes Right. Exactly.

S. Simon Jacob: 45:07

I agree.

Assaf Paz: 45:09

So it's exciting. We need more time.

S. Simon Jacob: 45:13

Any message you'd like to send out to the international customers about supporting Israel. About supporting Israeli wines.

Assaf Paz: 45:30

I remember your phrase from one and a half years ago when we sat here for the first time. You and I think I went back to that, and I think I went to study winemaking in Bordeaux in France in 1999, for two reasons. said that the most, the easiest, most enjoyable way to support Israel in those days is to buy and open and enjoy a good Israeli wine. First, all I was really passionate about winemaking because it really combined all my love the love for Eretz, Israel, the agriculture, the science, the biology and chemistry. I like to feed people because I was a pastry chef, so I like to be the Sar Ha Mashkim, not only the Sar HaOfim.

Assaf Paz: 46:21

And another thing that I saw what's happening around the world regarding Israel in the PR field and also it was obvious to see even 25 years ago, and I thought that wine could be maybe one of the best ambassadors for Israel to make our point and our claim and to show that we are here to stay, and when we plant a vineyard, like our ancestors did, and when we're making wine from the grapes of Eretz Israel, like they did in the Bible, and wine is so significant in our culture and our religion. It's a statement and I think that everybody that, of course, from the Jewish people, but also non-Jewish that support our way and believe in the right of Israel and the place of Israel in the world should enjoy Israeli wines. Some of them are very expensive, but you can find them in all price points.

S. Simon Jacob: 47:31

Yeah.

Assaf Paz: 47:32

Like everything is more expensive to make in Israel. Wines are also more expensive than in the rest of the world, but I think that they are delicious and today you have a very wide range of high quality, high end Israeli wines and you can pick up whatever you like and enjoy it and feel like you're part of this beautiful world of Israeli wine. Thank, you.

S. Simon Jacob: 48:04

Thank you so much. Thank you for being on the Kosher Terroir, thank you for inviting me again. There's a saying I saw recently. Somebody asked how much do you spend on a good bottle of Israeli wine? And the person responded at least an hour.

Assaf Paz: 48:25

That's amazing. That's amazing. You know, sometimes people of course the money is an issue and sometimes people are looking too much at the price there was on the other day. I don't deal with sales in the visitor center, but every once in a while I happen to stumble on a client that hesitates and needs some help and I approach them and she told me you know, I want to buy a friend a gift and myself a gift. I said amazing.

Assaf Paz: 48:56

And she hesitated between a wine that costs 85 shekels and a wine that cost 125 shekels. And I told her, I said what's the deal? I said I don't know if I can spend 125 shekels on a bottle. I say, first of all, your hesitation is on the 40 shekels gap between those two Because you want to buy a bottle of wine. Gap between those two because you want to buy a bottle of wine. Secondly, I think one it's. It's one of the cheapest ways to make you happy. If 125 shekels can make you happy for an hour or for a evening or for a nice meal, it's nothing, yeah, it's, it's really cheap%.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:39

I agree with you. I agree with you.

Assaf Paz: 49:41

Wow, so thank you very much. I'm excited to be on the second time on your amazing podcast. I think it's, first of all, you do it in a very fascinating way that I always enjoy listening to it and, secondly, I think they are very important because you're choosing the subject in a very intelligent way and please keep doing it Trying, thank you.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:16

This is Simon Jacob, again your host of today's episode of The Kosher Terroir. I have a personal request. No matter where you are or If you are new to The Kosher Terroir, please check out our many past episodes to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you're new to The Kosher Terroir, please check out our many past episodes. Wherever you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldiers' safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released.