S. Simon Jacob: 0:09

Welcome to The Kosher Terroir. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, I ask that, wherever you are, please take a moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all of our hostages. Tabernacle Winery, located in Moshev Tzuriel in Israel's Upper Galilee, is a boutique family-owned winery founded in 2017. The following is a conversation with Ari Tannenbaum, the head winemaker at the helm of Tabernacle's winemaking process.

S. Simon Jacob: 0:49

Ari grew up in New York and moved to Israel to pursue his passion for wine, studying under renowned Israeli winemakers before returning to the US to complete his master's degree in enology and viticulture from Cornell University. Degree in enology and viticulture from Cornell University. His winemaking philosophy emphasizes minimal intervention, allowing the grapes to express their natural qualities, resulting in nuanced and refined wines. If you're in your car, please focus on the road ahead. If you're sitting comfortably at home, please select a delicious bottle of kosher wine. Sit back, relax and enjoy this passionate conversation about winemaking. If you're sitting comfortably at home, please select a delicious bottle of kosher wine. Sit back, relax and enjoy this passionate conversation about winemaking and the process of making aliyah. I'd like to also wish each and every one of you around the globe a shana tova umtuka. A very, very happy, peaceful and prosperous new year. Ari pleasure, thank you very much for coming to the Kosher Teva studio. It's a pleasure.

Ari Tannenbaum: 1:53

Thank you for having me, and I'm excited to talk about wine Me too, and to be here.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:58

Thank you, me too. You brought a couple of bottles of wine, so we're going to get to those in a few minutes, so I'm looking forward to that as well. So thank you. Thank you, you're at Tabernacle Winery, so Tabernacle is located in Moshev Suriel, correct? So do you live there? Do you live in Moshev Suriel? Do you live nearby? I live in Safsufa.

Ari Tannenbaum: 2:21

Oh cool, it's around a half hour drive.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:24

It's a beautiful area. I was in Safsufa the other day. It's kind of cool.

Ari Tannenbaum: 2:31

It's kind of the heart of the wine growing region in the Galil. That area Kibbutz Sivan, Dalton, Safsufa. I have a lot of experience with this area and the wine growing region. I've been there. This year is my 10th harvest as a winemaker.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:50

Wow, so you're from the US originally.

Ari Tannenbaum: 2:54

Yes, from five towns, from Cedarhurst, okay from.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:57

Cedarhurst. So being a Jewish guy now living in Israel working as a winemaker, it's kind of like the Jewish dream. Tell me a little bit about it. How did you get to this point? What got you to Israel and what got you into this?

Ari Tannenbaum: 3:13

Sure, yeah, I'll share my story. So I came to Israel to learn in Yeshiva and one Shabbos, a winemaker came to the meal and he invited me to come to his winery afterwards and he had a little cave in Ir David right in the old city and I helped him crush the grapes and we went through the process and I saw him make the yeast and I just fell in love with this process and at the time, connecting to my spirituality and you know, wine has such a big part and connection with our holidays and Shabbos and everything we do so I just was so inspired and fell in love with the land at the time and wine, and that's where my passion started when I said, hey, there's something here. I really love this. I would like to explore it a little bit further.

Ari Tannenbaum: 4:14

Who was the winemaker? Do you remember his name? Yeah, Chaim Sackton. Okay, yeah, he has a winery called Gillard Winery and yeah, friends of friends and he invited me. And yeah, he was friends of friends and he invited me. And yeah, I always tell him that he's the reason why I got into the wine industry.

S. Simon Jacob: 4:32

That was the beginnings. Then how did you develop from there?

Ari Tannenbaum: 4:37

So I went back to the States. I went back and forth from Israel to the States and then I decided I wanted to be here, I wanted to devote my time here. So I looked for wineries to work in professionally and I got to Luria Winery in 2014, and I did four harvests with them and I really started from the ground up. I packaged wine, you know, built nishtachim. I started from the bottom and eventually I learned about vineyards. Luria has around 300 dunam that they manage, so I learned how to grow vines really from the ground up and, on a practical level, fix tractors and eventually I was the manager of the winery not the winemaker, but the right-hand man of Gidi Sayada, who is the winemaker and they make phenomenal wines.

S. Simon Jacob: 5:32

Yeah, he's amazing. That's why, also, at the same time, itay Lahat is also unbelievable he's a really special person.

Ari Tannenbaum: 5:44

It's a good segue.

Ari Tannenbaum: 5:45

actually, I met Itai during my time at Luria and I asked him what's the next step I can take to better my knowledge, expand my boundaries? So he said you should go to school for wine. So I did. Where did you go? I went to Cornell University for winemaking. So I have a master's degree in food science, specializing in wine yeast microbiology Basically the effects of flavor and aroma that yeast can impart on wine, amongst other things, All types of alcohol and food sanitation chemistry. So it was an amazing experience for me. It really broadened my knowledge. It's one thing to know how to make wine, it's another thing to understand what's happening. So it was an amazing experience for me. Do you know, Donnie? I do.

S. Simon Jacob: 6:44

We're friends.

Ari Tannenbaum: 6:45

Wow. Donnie has helped me a lot throughout the years.

S. Simon Jacob: 6:48

He's a Cornell guy Right?

Ari Tannenbaum: 6:49

yeah, I think we're the two in.

S. Simon Jacob: 6:51

Israel. How did you get connected to Avi Feldstein?

Ari Tannenbaum: 6:57

Or did you? I did? Yeah, me and Avi. I could say we're friends and I got connected to him because I was working in that region, in the Upper Galil region, and I ended up making his, some of his wines when he was transitioning. We're talking, you know, in 2016, something like that. So I got to know him, you know, got to know him personally, professionally, made some of his wines, his roses, asés, his whites. So learning from everybody.

S. Simon Jacob: 7:28

Learning from great people? Yes, really.

Ari Tannenbaum: 7:31

They're great.

S. Simon Jacob: 7:35

You know, I was going to ask you how in the world did you end up like Moixav? Tz'riel is just a little bit north of Carmiel, I think, yeah, and like so what's there? And then I started looking into it and it's like dalton luria all of these, uh, incredible wineries are all surrounding you.

Ari Tannenbaum: 7:55

So suriel's a little bit more western galileo, it's around the half hour drive, but yes, correct that that's the region where a lot of our amazing northern wineries are located, in the Azortasia of Dalton, dalton Cool.

S. Simon Jacob: 8:11

Where are the source vineyards?

Ari Tannenbaum: 8:13

for you. For Tabernacle Winery we have planted around 150 dunam in the Golan Heights. So that's near Tzomet, amir Shech Sha'al. It's beautiful there.

S. Simon Jacob: 8:27

It really is.

Ari Tannenbaum: 8:28

And it's an amazing wine growing region and the fruit that's coming from there is phenomenal.

S. Simon Jacob: 8:34

So what have you learned up there? What have you picked up as you've been going along? You know, this year especially, we're all wartime winemakers, you're right in the midst of everything, being smack dab in the middle of the north.

Ari Tannenbaum: 8:50

To answer your question, I've learned tremendously. I always plan to learn from everybody around me, like we've been talking about these phenomenal winemakers of the north, and you know I don't take it for granted and I try to learn from everybody. Winemaking is very versatile and I think it's important to go with the character of the raw material, which is grapes, right. So if you have thick skinned cabernet, then maybe you should do. Maybe the winemaking process should be to extract a lot of flavor and tannin, because you can, because that is the character of the grape which is can be translated to the character of the wine and lighter grape varieties like Grenache, or even Syrah, syrah. You could go big with it, you can make it a bigger wine or you could keep it a little bit more smooth and lighter and easier, an easier wine. So I think that this idea of really getting to know the vineyard and understanding what direction the grapes are going in and to coddle it to reach its potential, so tell me a little bit about your wines.

S. Simon Jacob: 10:08

Which wines you know? Let's talk about Tabernacle first. Yeah, Because I know you have your own brand as well, so tell me a little bit about Tabernacle.

Ari Tannenbaum: 10:17

So the winery was established in 2017. Yeah, I got on as winemaker in 2020.

S. Simon Jacob: 10:23

Yeah, there we 2020. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, speaking about the North Wow, it's been getting hammered for the last couple of days. Yeah.

Ari Tannenbaum: 10:40

There's been some action.

S. Simon Jacob: 10:43

Yep Like oh, it's just action. Yep Like oh, it's just okay, sorry.

Ari Tannenbaum: 10:50

No, I live that. Yeah, you know, they say when rockets fall on a Shattach, patuach, that's the vineyards, that's where we are. Right, as wine growers, as winemakers. So yeah, it's tough, I don't know what I can say about it. That's positive.

S. Simon Jacob: 11:12

Just trying to make it work. Just trying to make it work. You're single. I am Okay, cool, I just I almost I don't know why. I assumed you were married, but because it's pretty far up north. So that's dedication. Definitely Okay, Dedicated to the land. Focused dedication. All right, talk to me a little bit about Tabernacle Wines.

Ari Tannenbaum: 11:37

Sure. So Tabernacle was established in 2017. We planted our first vineyards in 2019. That's when I got on, around 1920. 2020, I became the winemaker and now we are producing wines from the vineyards we planted.

Ari Tannenbaum: 11:55

Now it's important to mention also that the winery was created this idea of tabernacle to honor and do the mitzvot, which are Begadol, shemitah and Miser taking Miser. So the owners, ownership, has dedicated this winery to doing the mitzvot of the land and that was the original passion, project vision and to make amazing wine, also to make premium Israeli wine. That's where I come in and the team comes in. So we have 150 Dunam in the Golan Heights and we produce around six different reds and we have a rosé, we have a white and you know, just taking all the skills that I've learned along the way and trying to make an amazing product, make an amazing wine from amazing fruit from this land, and the fruit is spectacular. You know, granted, you take care of the vine, but the region is really, I would say, up there and holds a candle to other regions in the world. I mean, we have what to offer here. So for me it's special living up there and to make wine from this amazing fruit.

S. Simon Jacob: 13:19

Talk to me a little bit about the harvest. You're right in the we're actually in the midst of the harvest, or you might've actually in the midst of the harvest, or you might have actually brought in all of the fruit already. I don't know if you have or haven't.

Ari Tannenbaum: 13:29

So we're a little colder in that region. So in about a week, a week or two, all the grapes should be in and we're kind of like the last in the country because we're micro cool climate Right Because of the elevation.

S. Simon Jacob: 13:46

So tell me a little bit about what's the process, how do you harvest and how do you make wine?

Ari Tannenbaum: 13:53

Sure, yeah, definitely. I love to also go bring myself down to explain this in a practical way, because sometimes people get scared or worried that they don't know something or they feel like they're not tasting it right or or many things right. So I like to bring it down to earth. Basically, grapes grow on a vineyard, on a vine, you, we do hand harvesting, so so we'll have 80 workers, let's say in a 10, 20 dunam lot, something like that. Hand harvested, go into bins, bins get put on a truck, gets trucked over to the winery. We receive the grapes, we weigh them, we find out our yields of which sections. Then we take the grapes, it goes through a de-stemming machine, then the grapes get crushed and a pump takes it to the tank. This is for red wine. We're talking red wine right now.

Ari Tannenbaum: 14:57

This is stainless steel tanks, Right, a stainless steel tank with a cooling jacket, a glycol system which allows you to control the temperature of the tank. Why would you need to do that? So temperature is an important tool in winemaking. Temperature can extract color and tannin.

S. Simon Jacob: 15:20

Flavors.

Ari Tannenbaum: 15:21

Warm or cool? Well, that's the question.

S. Simon Jacob: 15:24

Okay.

Ari Tannenbaum: 15:25

Right? Well, what type of wine do you want? Okay, do you want? We talked about different wine styles, right? So Cabernet, thick skins, big tannin. If I want to make a bigger wine, I'll probably ferment it a little bit hotter. Typically, let's say, run of's, say, the average fermentation temperature I would say is 25. And then you could go. Once you get above 26, 27, you start to get a different wine. You start to get more black fruits, more weight, more a fuller flavor in your mouth and your palate. Yeah, it's important also not to go too hot, right? It's also important not to go too cold, right? So if you're going to ferment colder, let's say, then you'll get a more aromatic wine, I think from my experience. So the body will be less beefy, but you'll save a lot of the wonderful aromas that, depending on which grape variety you're working with, will stay in the bottle, will stay in the wine.

S. Simon Jacob: 16:37

Inside the wine Right.

Ari Tannenbaum: 16:41

Very interesting, very cool, so you take it through that process, yeah, the fermentate, just to add also a little, just some things I've learned to share. So when you're fermenting, really it's about tannin regulation. You're trying to regulate the tannins, because when you're fermenting, the must, the juice on the grapes and the peels, so you're also mixing it and it's getting hotter, right. So these two um factors can be a way where you can extract more color, more flavor, more more tannin into the wine, right? So you have to be careful that you don't extract too much, that the wine doesn, right? So you have to be careful that you don't extract too much, that the wine doesn't get overly, that it doesn't have an overly mouth-drying sensation. And it's a good description of tannin, right? Yep, because tannin could just wipe out all the saliva from your mouth and you're left with a dry dry space.

Ari Tannenbaum: 17:42

So I love wines that are juicy and enjoyable and full and fun, and I think not everybody 90 of the market is not an expert and they just want to drink something that's nice that's delicious.

S. Simon Jacob: 17:58

That's delicious. They don't have to explain it.

Ari Tannenbaum: 18:00

It has this and that. You know, for the wine lovers there's plenty there to dissect and to talk about and to have a fun time there through a conversation. But 90% of the market just wants something that they're going to drink and say, hey, this is good, I don't know why, but it's great. It's a great wine.

S. Simon Jacob: 18:20

So let me ask you a question. So the goal is to make the wines approachable from the beginning. Yes, okay, I mean, do they have an aging quality to them?

Ari Tannenbaum: 18:30

Sure, yes, so for Tabernacle we have the Reserve line, which is a Syrah, a Cabernet, and then it's the Levite, which is a blend typically of Syrah, merlot, maybe Cabernet, depending on what I choose, and then so that's the reserve I skipped we have an entry-level bottle called the Pomone, which is a more lighter, easier wine, not as heavy. What varietal Of the Pomone? Yeah, it also switches from year to year. Yeah, now that we have vineyards, so I'm working more to understand the vineyard and then to create consistency over time.

Ari Tannenbaum: 19:16

But you know, the truth is, right now I use the tools at hand to make the best wine possible. You know, and if Malbec was a big component of the Palmon, but this year I don't have that component, so I'll do whatever is best for the wine. That's kind of my vision. Maybe other people don't like that, but to me that makes the most sense. I just want to make the best wine with the tools that I have, the best wine with the tools that I have. So the percentages of varietal characteristic of the wine will change from year to year until I find something that's satisfying and we'll stick with that.

S. Simon Jacob: 20:01

In setting down the vineyard, because you've been there since the beginning, since they planted the vineyards and what have you. Is it figuring out the lots as well, Figuring out what each of the parts of the vineyard produce and how to keep those elements separate to be able to blend them the way you want to blend them?

Ari Tannenbaum: 20:26

Yeah, interesting question. You know the vineyard depending on the weather of the year can also change the vineyard totally depending on how you're training your vineyard.

Ari Tannenbaum: 20:37

Does it open canopy? Is it vsp? Sp is a vertical shoot, positioning of the leaves Right? So it really depends on a lot of factors. I don't know if I can answer that question, but the idea is to learn the vineyard to grow grapes on the vineyard, basically what. There's this old uh fight between uh yield right and high yield and low yield. Yeah, right, if you have low yield then you're going to get a better wine. That's what the common thought or knowledge in the industry, um, but really it's not true. You can get, let's say, 1,200 kilo per dunam as opposed to 700 kilo, right, and those two yields could be the same quality. Yep, create bigger wines just because the fact is there's more skin to liquid ratio, right, right, just a lower yield. So the grape is more complex, more concentrated, but you can get the same concentration and complexity with 1,200 kilo Right, and I do know that's what I've. I'm just sharing what I'm seeing.

S. Simon Jacob: 22:05

No, that's really a great perception Because, as an example, a lot of people are complaining this year that the yields are down. Right, okay, so that the yields at least in Israel. We're not talking about the world, we're talking about Israel, all over Israel, okay, all over Israel. The yields are down. But though the yields are down, people are saying, well, the yields are down, but the complexity, we're not sure yet, but the complexity might be up with the wines. So the wines that we're producing might actually be really amazing this year. We'll see.

Ari Tannenbaum: 22:39

We don't really know yet they probably will be amazing actually because of the lower yields, right, I mean, I've talked to grape wine, grape farmers and they're really excited about the product the fruit, but on the other hand, you have half 30% less fruit.

Ari Tannenbaum: 23:01

Right, you know. So you want to make wine, so that's, it's kind of. There's's a balance here. Vineyard wine is all about balance balance in the starts, balance in the vineyard, balance in the winery and the fermentation. Balance, uh, when you're looking for characteristics in the glass, you know balance of tannin, balance of color, balance of aroma, of weight, of intensity, of length.

S. Simon Jacob: 23:30

We could, uh, we could go on and I know one of the things you mentioned in the tasting notes for the wines is um a process of rack and return, daily rack and return. What does that mean? I've never heard of it before that's why Interesting.

Ari Tannenbaum: 23:46

Yeah, so we talked about mixing the wine during the fermentation. So a rack and return is to take all of the juice out of the tank, out of the stainless steel tank, to another tank. So that means you separate it during fermentation. So you separate the juice from the peels and then you return it.

Ari Tannenbaum: 24:04

That's a peels and then you return it. That's a rack, and then you return it. You return it on top of all the peels, so it basically, instead of just mixing it in a closed circuit, you take out all of the wine and then you reintroduce it to the top, and you do that on a daily basis. No, it's not a daily basis. I try to do it two or three times in the period of the fermentation lot. It's all about tannin regulation and if you feel like a wine is not getting enough color or not getting enough tannin or structure, so then you can do a rack and return it. Doesn't? It might improve it I mean it usually does granted that your grapes have great color, Right, you can't make amazing wine from mediocre ingredients, right, you need good grapes. Then you have a chance of making amazing wine.

S. Simon Jacob: 25:08

The winery produces. Now like between around how many?

Ari Tannenbaum: 25:14

bottles Like 120,000. 120,000.

S. Simon Jacob: 25:17

Yeah, you've grown, it's great, Amazing.

Ari Tannenbaum: 25:21

I think when I got in it was like 40,000.

S. Simon Jacob: 25:26

And where it's, the wine is sold in America, in Israel. What's the? Yeah, the?

Ari Tannenbaum: 25:31

wine is sold in the States, mainly in New York East Coast.

S. Simon Jacob: 25:38

Okay.

Ari Tannenbaum: 25:41

There's a restaurant, Tabernacle Restaurant.

S. Simon Jacob: 25:43

Okay, right, we sell the wines there. That's also part of it.

Ari Tannenbaum: 25:45

That's nice. There's a restaurant, Tabernacle Restaurant. We sell our wines there. That's nice. It's a separate entity, but they have the name, we have the name. They sell our wines there, sell our wines in stores all over America. We sell here in Israel.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:00

Let's talk about the wines. You brought one of them to taste. What is this? I didn't even look at the label, so I'm sorry should I tell you?

Ari Tannenbaum: 26:08

yeah, yeah, tell me okay. So this is what we're tasting. Here is the tabernacle reserve cabernet sauvignon. It's a 2021 vintage and it's aged for 15 months. In french oak I don don't go more than 30% new French oak. We have amazing barrels. We have the Marcenet Rubies. We have amazing barrels. I mean top of the line what's on the market 30% new oak, 70% neutral. Okay, and I'll give my, I'll taste it and shoot, shoot some ideas out. So first I look at the color. I see it's.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:53

It's fresh, right, no browning yeah, there's no breaking, that's great 2021 vintage quite young, right.

Ari Tannenbaum: 27:02

Nice color. It has depth. It's not super black, but it has ruby red and it has depth to it. Right, the nose is nice. It's not burny, it feels like there's cherries and maybe pomegranate, maybe some tertiary. I feel some clove, some spice from the oak. Baruch, atah, adonai l'onim acholam b'ri ha'agefen, amen Baruch ha'agefen Amen.

Ari Tannenbaum: 27:47

All right, pretty full, not super heavy, but textured it has some weight to it. You know it's not a super big wine, but it has depth to it. The acid is alive. This wine is young. It is juicy though on the finish, and actually it's 14.9% alcohol. It's strong, it's pretty hot, yeah right.

Ari Tannenbaum: 28:19

So we're harvesting at around 26 bricks, 26. This is a wine that you can drink, enjoy with food Also, you know, with the steak, with some meat. I think it's a very nice wine for Israel and I'm proud of it, and I would enjoy drinking a very nice wine for Israel and I'm proud of it, and I would enjoy drinking a bottle of this.

S. Simon Jacob: 28:49

I'm interested to hear what you say. It's really nicely balanced. It's really perfect across the palate, there's no holes, it's from the beginning through the finish. It's just really really nicely balanced and it's got a prolonged finish to it, which is also really special. I like it a lot.

Ari Tannenbaum: 29:15

A little sweet on the finish. Not like sweet sweet, but it's not super dry.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:20

I kind of like wines that are a little sweet on the finish because it extends it, but it doesn't claw in the back of your palate. Right, you're not drinking a sweet? Yeah, no, this isn't sweet, but it's got a sweetness to the finish that I kind of like in wines.

Ari Tannenbaum: 29:40

Yeah, I love that in wines. Actually, that's what I try to do. It's got a juicy finish and it could be because the grapes were harvested a bit higher in sugar so some of that sugar will stay over. Okay, it won't fully ferment out, so that's called residual sugar, so that can add a little bit of viscosity. Right, sugar is viscous, so it can add a little weight, add a little sweetness and can make the wine that much more pleasant on the finish, as opposed to being like feeling the alcohol or it being burny. It's very surprisingly smooth for 14.9%, for almost 15%.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:28

Yeah, it is. It's not as much as you said, it's 14.9%. You don't sense that?

Ari Tannenbaum: 30:36

Right. Normally I aim for 14.5%, 14%, but here that's what it came out to. And for me, I think, my vision is I'm trying to make great wine with the tools that I have. You know, not necessarily follow the rulebook to the T.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:58

Talk to me about the process after it's inside the vats. You at the end of the fermentation. How do you know the fermentation is over? How do you know so?

Ari Tannenbaum: 31:12

I, I check it. So the the grapes get crushed, yeah, they get pumped into the tank. Then a day later I check how much sugar is in the must. Yep, right.

S. Simon Jacob: 31:26

It's really nice. It's nice, it's opening up a little bit.

Ari Tannenbaum: 31:30

Feel the wood. I feel some green, some methoxypyrrazine from the Cabernet, feel flowery a little bit. Anyway, enjoy All right. So, yes, the grapes go into the tank. And what's the question you asked me?

S. Simon Jacob: 31:47

The question I asked you is what's the next step Once they're in the tank? How do you know when the fermentation's finished Right.

Ari Tannenbaum: 31:54

So I check it in the beginning. I know what sugar I start with and then I get down to where I want it to be on the Mishkal Skuli, on the hydrometer. I follow it every day. I check it every day. I see that the yeast are eating the sugar. The sugar is going down and that's how you follow a fermentation to make sure that it's not becoming sluggish or it's not stopping because you want a healthy fermentation. This is chemistry. Yeast are a machine.

Ari Tannenbaum: 32:23

They're single-celled eukaryotes right like us right and and the fermentation should be strong and healthy and I'm looking at around three weeks, about a month, to peel skin contact on the liquid. So it could take anywhere from two weeks to a month that the skins are fermenting and being mixed back into their juice.

S. Simon Jacob: 32:55

Okay, yeah.

Ari Tannenbaum: 32:56

So basically I check it with the hydrometer until it's dry and then, when it's dry, I extract all of the wine. That's wine already. And then the peels get extracted from the tank, we move it to the press and we press. We get an extra 10%, 15%. Pressing fractions are important for a winery. It's a business and you spent all this time and energy everywhere making the grapes and making the wine. Now you want to extract some of that press fraction.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:29

Does it impart more acid? The?

Ari Tannenbaum: 33:32

press fraction. Yeah, the press fraction sometimes could be even more tasty, um than a free run fraction, in my opinion. Sometimes you could pick up more tannin. Uh, you could oxidize the wine a little bit if you, you know, run the press, if you do too many, si vous venez too many turns. So you got to kind of understand your equipment Balance again.

S. Simon Jacob: 34:00

Your equipment.

Ari Tannenbaum: 34:00

Yeah, you've got to. You know I've been working with the same equipment for five years four years at Tabernacle, so I really understand it. I'm also a mechanic by trade, so I love. I grew up fixing heat, that was fixing tractors, that was the fixing tractor part. I grew up in a family that's a heating and air conditioning family. Okay, so I very, very much love machines and to get to know the machine and what it's actually doing to the wine. Every machine is different, so that's also something interesting there. You know a wrench in the system that you've got to look out for that you've got to figure wrench in the system that you've got to look out for.

S. Simon Jacob: 34:37

That's why some of the presses are oxygen-free. When people are trying to control that so that they're not getting any oxygen, they press the grapes under a nitrogen environment, Right exactly, yeah.

Ari Tannenbaum: 34:56

So a lot of the inert presses think it's uh, I don't have that, I have a membrane press. But yeah, the wilmiss has an amazing press that will blanket in um with nitrogen or argon right, uh an inert gas.

Ari Tannenbaum: 35:13

Yeah, and it will protect against oxidation. For whites that's extremely useful For reds because of the tannin. Tannins actually can prevent oxidation. You know red wine in barrels, besides for putting sulfite in it, the tannin pickup will help a little bit against oxidation. Sometimes, when tannins are too strong, if you aerate the wine then it could become softer because the chemical reaction is happening with the tannin and oxygen. Is that true, I guess? So Okay, don't worry, yep, more action. You know what I'm going to be positive right, Because we should be positive right.

S. Simon Jacob: 36:00

It's a hard time.

Ari Tannenbaum: 36:02

Everyone's going through a hard time in the South and the North, but I'm here to strengthen the people and to be positive instead of negative, because I think that will just do us all better. I think a cool thing about our industry is we don't put each other down. If Israeli wine goes up on the boat, then we're all on the boat. The boat goes up right. So if we're making consistently good products from our wineries here, then we just go up in the rank of a wine country.

S. Simon Jacob: 36:33

You know a place that produces premium wines.

Ari Tannenbaum: 36:36

So tell me the next step. So we pressed the grapes. Now we have all the wine clean of the peels right Now there's like pieces of peels right.

S. Simon Jacob: 36:47

Are there leaves left in the barrels or?

Ari Tannenbaum: 36:50

no, well, so the wine didn't go into barrels yet. It goes through a cleaning process and also through malolactic fermentation, right, where the malic acid is converted to lactic acid, and that's done. Number one for a sensory effect, it's done for a flavor effect and it's also done for a security purpose that there shouldn't be a secondary fermentation in the bottle. Right, because red wine is not filtered. Right, and if you're going to filter bacteria, you need a 0.45 micron filter. Right, yeasts are about 1, yeah, 1.0. That's their size, micron, and bacterias are smaller. So you're not filtering red wines. Right, because you don't want to reduce color or flavor. So you need to go through the secondary fermentation called malolactic, which will protect the wine from fermenting in the bottle. And, as well, it adds a sensory characteristic that can smooth, smooth the wine. Um, makes it takes malic acid just a tad though. Um, you know. So it's reducing acidity a little bit, just a tad. It really makes the wine a little bit more full and creamy and velvety. Okay, so it goes through that process. I check it to make sure all the malic acid is gone. That that's how I know it's dry from malic acid. It's another type of fermentation, right, and then from there it'll get a racking. I'll start to clean the wine from the sediments and then, when it's done with mallow, it could go into barrel and get sulfite.

Ari Tannenbaum: 38:34

Sulfites protect against oxygenation and also against it's an antimicrobial. So it prevents the wine from being oxidized and it also prevents weird bacterias from starting to grow or form or flora sometimes can form on the top of the surface. So you want to keep your wine clean and topped up in the barrel. You do topping once every month and a half, every two months, month and a half. So over time alcohol evaporates from the barrel and then you have headspace. So it's important every month and a half to come and top off the barrel to make sure that it's full, because if it's full there's no air, the wine can't oxidize, it can't react with the sulfite in the wine and that's what the sulfite is for is during that time period when you have evaporation, alcoholic evaporation over a two-month period. When you come back to top off the wine, you're missing around 500 liters, something like that you hope. Top off the wine. You're missing around 500 liters, something like that you hope. Well, so that sulfite addition is going to interact with the oxygen and mitigate and exactly.

Ari Tannenbaum: 39:48

And if you close the cork, the bung very well on the on the barrel when it's full. Then it'll create a vacuum as the wine level goes down. It'll create a strong vacuum around the bung and most of the oxygen exposure is coming from around the bung area. So if you have that vacuum and you topped it off good and you closed it tightly, then you can protect the wine even more. You know you did a good job when you come to open it after two months and you hear you hear the air suck in, so that's a little trick cool.

Ari Tannenbaum: 40:28

Yeah, that's it. We just made red wine yeah, and then it ages for 10 months, 15 months, two years. Whatever type of wine you're trying to make, if you have a very powerful Cabernet Sauvignon and you want to age it for two years, you could probably age it because the wine is in need of that time to soften and to develop and to mature.

Ari Tannenbaum: 40:51

If you're making a Grenache, a light Grenache, then, maybe you just want seven months, six months, something like ten months. So it's all about the winemaker and his vision and where he wants to take the raw material. Where does he think this raw material is going? Where are the flavors of these grapes, these vineyards? Where are they going?

S. Simon Jacob: 41:13

It's interesting to see Syrah go either way. It's like because I've seen people create these really heavy, rich Syrahs and some very light but incredibly delicious Syrahs as well, so you can actually.

Ari Tannenbaum: 41:32

Yeah, well said, yeah both ways, Grenache right.

S. Simon Jacob: 41:35

Yeah, as well.

Ari Tannenbaum: 41:36

You can make a white, white Grenache out of the same grape. You can make a red wine, right, you can make a rosé from Grenache. So those are three totally different wines, you know, depending on when you harvest them. Right For a red Grenache, maybe you want 24 bricks. Right For a white wine, you want maybe 19, 20, 21 bricks, depending on white wine, you want maybe 19, 20, 21 bricks depending on, so you harvest it earlier and then right work it.

Ari Tannenbaum: 42:03

Yeah, you harvest earlier and then you, for white wine, you would crush it and then, instead of going right to the stainless steel tank, you'll go right to the press right, you'll drain all the liquid. You'll get a nice clear juice. That liquid will go to the stainless steel tank and it'll ferment as a liquid without peels Without the skins, without skins. Without seeds? Yeah, okay, do you make any whites? Yeah, tabernacle has a Sauvignon Blanc. Okay, we came out last year with it. This year we're going to come out with it too.

Ari Tannenbaum: 42:40

And we year with it this year we're going to come out with it too, and we have a rosé. I love the Sauvignon Blanc. It has such a cool character, the Sauvignon Blanc, that you could try it from different regions. It has a similar character.

S. Simon Jacob: 42:50

Yeah, there's some fragrance to it.

Ari Tannenbaum: 42:54

Petroleum Like a Riesling Gooseberry. It's one of the more interesting um aromatic wines that are produced. It's very aromatic, it can be, which it's just fun when you smell something in a cup like that tell me, tell me a little bit about the wines that are available through Tabernacle. Should I go from light to dark? These are our wines, so we have a. Sauvignon Blanc white wine we have a Rosé.

Ari Tannenbaum: 43:28

The Sauvignon Blanc is fragrant and it's made for a nice, light summer wine, exactly, it's hot outside, you're in the pool, you come out, you have a nice ice-cold glass of Sauvignon Blanc Cool, very refreshing, lots of amazing aromas and enjoy Rosé, also Rosé To me. There's so many rosés on the market. I'm just trying to make a rosé that people find enjoyable. Uh, just to drink, you know, without complexity. It doesn't need a lot of complexity. It needs to be fruity, in my opinion, and really just enjoyable to drink. Um, you know, not bitter, uh, lighter, not heavy acid, not not super acidic, but you want acidity because you don't want it to be flat, right?

S. Simon Jacob: 44:21

you want.

Ari Tannenbaum: 44:22

It's like a lemon you squeezed on a salad it brings out all the flavor. So you need balance there of acidity. Okay, and then we'll move on to reds. Yep, so tabernacle is mainly a red house. So we have our entry level. It's called the palmone. It's that wine style is lighter and more aromatic. Right. Then we have the reserve line three bottles in the reserve. We have a cabernet sauvignon, which is what we're drinking. We have a syrah single vineyard from kibbutz, which is a very special bottle in my opinion. Why? Why? Because it's an organic vineyard and the vineyard is just producing phenomenal grapes. The farmer there, ido, he's amazing to work with and it's in a very special microclimate. It's a cool microclimate within our hotter Israel's a hot region, a hot macroclimate. So in Sivon, where the vineyard is located, it's in kind of like a wadi and it's cold. It's cold there. It gets cold at night, colder than other places in the region.

S. Simon Jacob: 45:34

It's interesting we were talking I've been talking on the last podcast about how people focus high on mountaintops in order to get the cold, but they're finding that, um, a lot of these vineyards that are down in bodies are getting these flows down from the mountains that chill them and uh and really impart um also humidity and uh, and end up creating great wonderful wine grapes.

Ari Tannenbaum: 46:02

Yeah, I find that temperature moves right. So if it's cold on the top of the hill later on in the day or in the night, it's cold on the bottom of the hill right. So it's all relative. Yeah, it's like growing grapes is like schnitzel. It's like cooking schnitzel in a pan. If you cook it on a flame, a high flame, so it'll be crispy on the outside right and raw on the inside, you know lots of acid green. But if you cook it steady right on a medium flame, then you'll get a more homogenized, developed grape right.

S. Simon Jacob: 46:44

Well, schnitzel right.

Ari Tannenbaum: 46:45

You'll get a cooked, perfectly cooked piece of schnitzel, cool, yeah. So it's like that with grapes. You don't want super high heat and then hot in the evening, right. You want then hot in the evening, right. You want it cool in the evening, right, right. You want to be able to simmer down that flame and to keep the grapes on the vine for a long time, right, not too long that it shrivels and falls apart, but enough that it's not being overly cooked on the vine.

Ari Tannenbaum: 47:19

So, after the reserve line, then there's the Bezala line. Okay, two bottles a Cabernet Sauvignon and a bottle called Cotorette, which is a blend. It's like the artistry of the winery, of the winemaker, of you, yeah. Of our team, okay, yeah, yes, i's Of you, yeah, of our team, okay, yeah, yes, I make the decisions in the end, but really I appreciate being open-minded and I sit with Itay, itay Laha, that helps us on the blendings. I mean, he's my mentor. I met him at Luria and I've been in touch with him throughout all these years. He sent me to school, so I have a connection with him Years already. We know each other and I enjoy his company sitting there.

Ari Tannenbaum: 48:06

I might have an idea, but I could come up with an even better idea. If I I'm talked and converse with someone, you know bounce my ideas off of someone, a mirror, a board, and Itai is great for that I sit with him, we discuss and he'll give his opinion. I'll say my opinion In the end, yeah, I'll make the decision. But that whole process, I cherish that process. You know to give it space. And when you're blending the wines it's the culmination of your work, of all the grape growing and the fermentation and the barrel aging. And now you're doing the last piece of the puzzle, kind of Blend it and you filter it and then you bottle it and then it goes out to the world. Do?

S. Simon Jacob: 48:51

you wait? Do you have them bottle age for a while before you release it?

Ari Tannenbaum: 48:56

Yeah, we try to do three to six months. Okay, yeah, we try to do that.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:02

Itai is an incredible person. I interviewed him a few months ago.

Ari Tannenbaum: 49:08

Itai is like the secret weapon of the wine industry here. I mean so many boutique wineries use his talents to do what I just said to help with blending. Even more than that just logistics, and his knowledge is tremendous and we're lucky we have him here in Israel and, amongst others, there are others like him. We have amazing people in this country and we have knowledgeable, educated winemakers, both coming from education and both coming from practical winemaking, which is honestly. They're both important, because I really appreciated school and learning and about chemistry and why the whys to winemaking. But in the end of the day, you need to make the wine and it comes with hand-on experience, I think with anything in life.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:07

Okay, so tell me a little bit about your own wine. Sure, you have a line of your own wines that you make. Where do you actually manufacture them?

Ari Tannenbaum: 50:16

So actually, I've started this project in 2018. I graduated Cornell in 2019. So I started this project then, and then I came back to Israel and I took a job with Tabernacle Winery. So I had this project that I called Kuzari right. The inspiration comes from Rabbi Yehuda Levi. From the Sefer Kuzari. It says that a Jew is domelagefen yudi, domelagefen right. A Jew is similar to a vine, why, just like a vine can produce its ultimate potential and fruit when it's found in its perfect environment perfect sun, perfect slope, perfect nutrients, perfect wind so to a Jew, when they are found in their perfect environment, then he or she can reach their ultimate potential. And where is that place? That's Eretz Israel. So that's my vision, that's the passion behind this project.

Ari Tannenbaum: 51:26

I come from the States and devoted my life to be here to the land and to making amazing Israeli wine, and I believe in this country, and people that are listening to this know that there's a place called Eretz Yisrael. That's their home. They can come whenever they would like, and I'm here, and many of us are here, and you know I'm not preaching to anyone. Everyone could live their life the way you want to live it, but for me, I made a choice to move from New York. There were sacrifices, and now I'm here and I strengthened this land through this project and I wanted a pure story. If I was sending this wine all over the world, right, my brand, or it's going to people's tables for Shabbos, so there should be a meaningful story that comes along with it. I think I'm passionate about that, about this land and about being here, and I'm passionate about loving Jews. You know we should all love each other, and as hard as that can be sometimes, but it's really the key to our success. And I got far off there.

S. Simon Jacob: 52:49

I totally agree with you. It's refreshing to see somebody not only comfortable here, but like this is the place. This is the place for you.

Ari Tannenbaum: 53:00

So tell me a little bit, try a little bit of this.

S. Simon Jacob: 53:01

Yeah, I definitely do, can we? Yeah absolutely so. How many wines do you make under Cruzari?

Ari Tannenbaum: 53:12

I make four wines. I make Syrah, a Cabernet and two blends, which I'm not sure I'm going to continue, but the idea is and I make around 5,000 bottles, maybe this year a little bit more, but the idea is to do something a little bit different and if I see something special along my travels in vineyards and in the wine industry, so I'll try to isolate something special, a section of a vineyard, and I'll make wine out of it. So this Syrah, the grapes are from Safsufa and also from Sivon. I only made three barrels of this wine. It's the Syrah 2020 vintage and I really love this wine. It's a nice balance of what we were talking about an aromatic Syrah and a full body, heavy.

S. Simon Jacob: 54:10

Oh it's so aromatic, it's beautiful.

Ari Tannenbaum: 54:15

Right, it's got a lot of earthy notes Right, syrah. It has clove, it has spice, it has blackberry, it has plum, got good length, really lovely Thank you Really lovely. Thank you. Wow, 20 months in French oak. So do you sell?

S. Simon Jacob: 54:40

this in America too, no, just here, just in Israel.

Ari Tannenbaum: 54:43

Yeah, not just In Israel. In Israel, yeah, I don't have that much to sell to the States, but in the future, who do you sell it through Me? I do everything myself. Oh, okay, who do you sell it through Me? I do everything myself. I'm a one-man show. I have customers, some stores working, I have a full-time job and Tabernacle is really my priority. Does that?

S. Simon Jacob: 55:10

be a tar here.

Ari Tannenbaum: 55:11

It's a full operation. Tabernacle, it's 150 Duna, it's 120,000 bottles, it's a full operation. Tabernacle, it's 150 Duna. Right, it's 120,000 bottles, it's a full operation. This is my baby. You know, this is my special wines, my reserve wines and, yeah, I hope to grow also one day, but for right now, you know, the focus is Tabernacle.

Ari Tannenbaum: 55:31

Yeah, yeah for right now, but this is lovely and I'm really happy working with the vineyards we planted with Tabernacle. It's a dream for a winemaker to plant vines, then to make wine from those vines and to follow it through the aging process. I'm very grateful to have this experience. I'm very grateful to have this experience and it's kind of it's amazing to me because I started at Luria and they also had a state vineyard winery, so really to control your wines means to grow your own grapes.

Ari Tannenbaum: 56:14

So, I think that's huge to be able to have that ability. So it's all about the grape, it's all about the vineyard. It starts in the vineyard Quality, in the vineyard quality, in the wine, thank you. Thank you for the information about making wine. Sure, absolutely, I'd love to share. I love it. If you share, then you get places.

S. Simon Jacob: 56:32

That's what I believe. Yeah, 100%. I look forward to visiting you at the at the winery, one of these days soon.

Ari Tannenbaum: 56:39

You are always welcome at the winery and thank you so much for having me. This was fun.

S. Simon Jacob: 56:44

I hope something interesting comes today's episode of the Kosher Terwa, I have a personal request. No matter where you are or where you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldiers' safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages your safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you're new to the Kosher Terwa, please check out our many past episodes.