Immersing in the Intricate World of Israeli Wines: An Enlightening Experience with Yechiel Wolgel

S. Simon Jacob: 0:09

Welcome to The Kosher Terroir. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, I ask that, wherever you are, please take a moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all of our hostages. The following is a conversation with a truly remarkable young man, Yechiel Wolgel. Though his interest in wine is relatively recent, he has acquired a lot of knowledge and some significant credentials in the wine field. He has a passion for wine, and it all comes across as he expertly guides people through an exceptionally well-orchestrated tasting of his wines. He is highly personable and has been working at the tasting room for the Jerusalem winery, based inside the Montefiore Windmill in Yemin Moshe. If you're listening while driving, please make sure to give your attention to the road. If you're home, grab a glass of delicious kosher wine, sit back, relax and enjoy, as we experience tasting a number of Jerusalem wineries, premium wines. Yechiel, welcome to The Kosher Terroir. It's really a pleasure to have you on.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:32

Well, I've heard all the episodes so far.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:41

So where are we right here? This is an interesting place.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:45

Yes, so right now we're literally in the windmill, the Montefiore Windmill in Yemin Moshe.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:50

Yep.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:51

So we have here. There are tourist attractions here Like you can do guided tours here where they'll take you upstairs. Obviously, at Pocke's you can't hear this, but this opens up this door up here, yep, and you can go upstairs. But that's a tourist company that does that. But they haven't been. They only were back for one day since the war started. They had opened two days ago for children to have some chips upstairs. They were supposed to be open again today, but because it's very much raining they're not here. So on a day like this when it's raining, we do our wine tastings in here.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:25

Yep.

Yechiel Wolgel: 2:26

Otherwise we have them outside or with the view of the old city.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:30

I've actually operated this one, though it's kind of crazy Even the windmill itself you've operated, yeah, yeah, with a chain.

Yechiel Wolgel: 2:37

So since the renovation in 2018. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:41

So before that it didn't operate at all. I mean it might have operated in the time of most of Montefiore. It's debatable.

Yechiel Wolgel: 2:48

Okay, so we have an Arab worker who knows how to run it. When they did the flower a few times, they used to do the flower twice at Forchevouot. Yeah, they used to do that, right, so they don't do it anymore for a number of reasons. One is there's a reason we don't use wind to make flower anymore. It takes so much time to get so little flower. But the real reason is bureaucracy. The Ministry of Health doesn't allow it anymore.

Yechiel Wolgel: 3:12

Wow, so they used to do it once a year before Shevouot there's like a festival but now they stopped. So he told me, basically, so he's in constant contact with the engineer for the Netherlands that rebuilt this. They spent from 2012 to 2018 renovating it in the Netherlands and they brought it here. Yeah, I remember. So he's in constant contact with him because he something opens in and the wind turns and everything Right. And the guy in the Netherlands I think the guy in the Netherlands said this as well that it's debatable that they really could have ever gotten enough wind to make a sustainable amount of flower, but even if it did work, it was for the most 20 years, because then they invented the steam engine which took over for a very long time Very cool.

S. Simon Jacob: 3:56

It's an incredible location, incredible place.

Yechiel Wolgel: 3:58

I'll tell you a little personal note in this room specifically, but I actually got married here.

S. Simon Jacob: 4:04

Like outside, yeah right outside here.

Yechiel Wolgel: 4:07

So this was the ICHID room in the windmill. We had a lot.

S. Simon Jacob: 4:14

So it was very cool. So now, what's going on here?

Yechiel Wolgel: 4:19

So I'm working here in the tasting center. The winery itself is in Atavot, which I don't know is an industrial zone, that's how the wind is showing it technically considered Parvusia Lime, which is considered the only winery in Jerusalem. But I've gone there to meet with Lior the winemaker and I've tasted some of the wines, like in fermentation for next year, which I know you've done in the past. Yeah, I remember you said specifically you're Rose.

S. Simon Jacob: 4:48

I love it, so I had that by him.

Yechiel Wolgel: 4:51

And it looked like almost like a milkshake.

S. Simon Jacob: 4:52

Right, but isn't it delicious?

Yechiel Wolgel: 4:54

It's awesome.

S. Simon Jacob: 4:55

Whenever you get a chance to taste out of the steel, it's like crazy.

Yechiel Wolgel: 5:00

So I went there at like a quarter to six in the morning because at six o'clock he got a delivery of 14 tons of argama. So I saw the whole process at home and then we went to like 20 vets and tasted everything.

S. Simon Jacob: 5:12

So the winery we're talking about is the Jerusalem winery?

Yechiel Wolgel: 5:15

Yes, so this is one of the shore family which started the wineries in the old city and now there's like four different versions of them in actually the Aralei of the Maladumim and Meshardumim. There's like four of them. Right, it's Sarah and Kormim and 1848 and shore. These are all the same family, one of the sons-in-law Mendelssohn who was actually a Chabad chassid, so they almost moved the winery to what's called Nahlat Har Chabad in Keres, malachi. Other than Chabad, it's the biggest. Like Chabad, like Ankhabah, is that a word?

S. Simon Jacob: 5:46

Yep Ankhabah.

Yechiel Wolgel: 5:47

So they almost moved there, but then they didn't. So it started in the old city. Then it first moved to Malachi, israel, like Meshariim area, and then in the 70s moved to Ahtarut. Wow, the name Jerusalem winery is relatively recent. Right, because the winery was bought from the family. One son from the family passed away. A good friend of his who was a businessman bought it to sort of help it maintain it. He brought in a few different winemakers because, like most Israeli wineries, they mostly made Kiddish wine for a long time. Right, I was very excited to hear you learn the term. On one of the episodes you heard the term Yeh Patishim. Yes, which is what I always refer to it. It's a much stronger term than Kiddish wine because of what it kind of said, but so mostly with that, he brought in like.

Yechiel Wolgel: 6:31

Sam Soroko was here for a bit yes, I remember seven then he went to Pesagot. Ariel Beer, who is now at the end of the era, was here for a bit, but since about 2018, they have Lior Luxer, who beforehand was the winemaker at Carmel. So he did like the Mediterranean and Lunar Edition. It was actually when I met him here. It was personally cool that I get to work with him now because I had wines of his saved for my phone. I got married, wow. So I had like the Mediterranean 2016. He opened in my Shavarbrochas and I was like when I met him, I was like, well, I have your wine in my wine fridge for when I get married. So it was really exciting for me to work with him, the Mediterranean is spectacular.

Yechiel Wolgel: 7:09

It makes sense that you would be.

S. Simon Jacob: 7:11

It's really spectacular. Yeah, no, I didn't realize how much wine Jerusalem winery actually produces. Now it's up to four million dollars. It's huge, huge. But they don't make it only under their name, they make it under a whole bunch of.

Yechiel Wolgel: 7:27

Yeah, if you go to like, even if you go, I mean, this is much smaller scale than other things that they do, but like, if you go to, even like pasta bust and the shook, the house wine. Yeah, so the house wine. It says pasta bust on the label, but you look in the back it's Jerusalem wine.

S. Simon Jacob: 7:42

Yeah, no, they make wine. They're not just a service winery, they actually make wine. They're a white label winery that makes wine for other people.

Yechiel Wolgel: 7:55

You get a bunch of people from the States are trying to come and do some private label stuff Right as well, and part of why they had the visitor sent to here basically is once Lior started making the wines, they needed it, because at the road it's not the most it's not the most you know, it's not the most pleasurable place to visit, so they wanted something near the, since the winery started at the old city.

Yechiel Wolgel: 8:15

we have the view here of the old city and then, in 2018, once they finished their renovation here, they needed something here. Basically.

S. Simon Jacob: 8:22

It makes a huge amount of sense. This is brilliant because being in the old city creates a whole bunch of additional issues that you have to deal with, and being here is just outside of all of that purview, and it's for what you want it to be. It's a beautiful this happens to be a beautiful wine tasting room, and you hear, it's just it's great to be here, so we'll get to it later.

Yechiel Wolgel: 8:48

Okay, that's why, like, our flagship series is called the Wood Mill Project, because I did actually have. I can't believe this actually happened. But I had a couple sit here outside, right outside the windmill, and we got and he asked for a pateeve redone. We only have pateeve redone in the windmill project. So when I brought it over I figured I'd give him a little spiel. And I tell him, yes, it's the windmill project. So not always really know the word windmill, obviously. I tell him it's a, it's called the Tachanatavok.

S. Simon Jacob: 9:11

Yeah.

Yechiel Wolgel: 9:12

And he tells me which one. No, I was like wait, what do you? I was, I didn't know what to say and his wife was so embarrassed and I was like this one, like the one, the one, you said the one, and he just like well, why don't you say this one? No, why don't you say the one with the windmill, like I was? But I was. It was very confusing. So I gave the wife a little more of a poor because I felt like she she needed it, but yeah, but like you're saying it's, it's also, you know, an icon of this Jerusalem skyline.

S. Simon Jacob: 9:38

It is, it is it is. If you ever see a, if you ever see a motif of Jerusalem, typically in the motif you see, you know the Kotel and what have you, but you also see the windmill. Yes, it's, it's, we have also here I can show you afterwards.

Yechiel Wolgel: 9:52

But we have, I mean, you know some of these, but when people come to visit here, so we have like historic pictures of how it's. So you know, we could also give I also give a little bit of a history of the area, of people come and then if you well, you're sitting down and say don't get up, right now. But if you look up here, so people can look up and see the mechanism see the mechanism.

S. Simon Jacob: 10:12

Yeah, that's a great. That's a great intro. Yeah, so if you're blocking to go into Orts Chardonnay rather than so, we're going to do it when you're here, because we'll talk about it when we try the wine in a minute because, well, currently the Sonyeo Manga are very similar in terms of style.

Yechiel Wolgel: 10:27

They're both relatively early harvest, highest acidity, very refreshing. On a day like this it's not as important, but in the summer, when we had people shredding outside, it was very helpful, whereas the Chardonnay the Orts Chardonnay is from the Windmill Project series, so half of it is really in oak. So that way I can like, when people come, the two favorite kinds of people that come to visit here people who really know wine, because then we can just geek out over wine. People who are like I actually don't know anything, I just went. Whenever then I start explaining about the yeas and what leases and all this stuff, whatever they get, a lot of people come here and then I have these conversations with them and then they leave and they're just like I need to learn a lot more about this and I'm like, okay, I did my job, I did a good job. If people are more Very cool, more interested.

S. Simon Jacob: 11:04

That's exactly what you want.

Yechiel Wolgel: 11:05

All right.

S. Simon Jacob: 11:07

Yeah, so we're going to taste some wine. So, wherever you'd like to start, I'd like to start Great, so we'll start with.

Yechiel Wolgel: 11:16

we'll start with, but we just had the conversation. Yeah, we'll start with the Sauvignon Blanc.

S. Simon Jacob: 11:22

So, but I really wanted the Rose Emily. No, no, I have a few, I have a few, don't worry, don't worry, don't worry, relax, relax.

Yechiel Wolgel: 11:31

The issue is that the 20, 2023 isn't. Even though I tasted it at the winery, it's not ready yet. It's not. Yeah, and the Rose and I'll explain it a second why but the Rose and the Sauvignon Blanc, they flew off the shelves for us this year. I'm about this, but like maybe a more complex Rose, and I think it's been very interesting with these in Israel lately. But I think, like the Sauvignon Blanc, the Rose just became a really, really refreshing this year.

Yechiel Wolgel: 11:57

I asked Lee or why that is? Personally, I think a lot of it is because he's been in the winery for a few years now and he's taking more control. He's also the CEO, he's not just the one who's the fine maker. So, and like I, when I went there, I tasted next year Sauvignon Blanc, which did not have this thing. I'll tell you in a second that he said the 2022 had, and it's still. I tasted it and like his face lit up when he tasted a few of the vats of the Sauvignon Blanc. I think next year will be pretty good too, but this year Sauvignon Blanc. I basically asked him so these come from the Amorphous Jerusalem Hills area. Some of that stuff comes from other places, I'll tell you each time. But he basically said this was the first vintage he had the 2022, which their American listeners will not have been able to have.

S. Simon Jacob: 12:42

Yeah, because it's Schmitel.

Yechiel Wolgel: 12:46

A few people who I know listen have been here and have had it because I ported for it. It's Hete Machira, hete Machira, yeah, we had it. It's our vating run that was sold at cost In general, one of the great things about Shemitah. Besides all the great things about Shemitah, in my opinion, I don't really like when people view it as like a Shemitah problem. I think it's like you know, but the I don't remember the exact title of the book, but one of my rabbis in the receiver wrote a book called like the Shemitah wonder or Shemitah phenomenon or something like that. I just liked that the book had a positive title.

Yechiel Wolgel: 13:17

But one of the things is also because if something's out there baiting, they can't charge that much for it. Yeah, so you can get like I recently got. Well, I got engaged in that I bought, so I bought two, one for a first year about after we got married. When we got engaged I bought the like the yard, then blank the blank, like the scores, like 2008,. 2008 was all sort of baiting and they took care of the beer. It says beer was done at the winery because they had it for 10 years, but because it was all sort of baiting, very reasonable price, but had the McCree, I guess, award that. But any event, I asked them why he thinks this one was so much better than previous ventures.

Yechiel Wolgel: 13:50

This 2022, the Somia Blanc from the premium series. I asked them why he thinks it was so much better than the previous ventures and I could tell I came here for tasting with my wife last year and I had a Somia Blanc. It was nice, but this was, I think I think, better. He said because it was the first vintage where he didn't have any heat waves in the spring.

Yechiel Wolgel: 14:08

So you know as much as we liked. He's very much a control guy, but it you know, not everything we can't control. And if you, yeah, this is what you want.

S. Simon Jacob: 14:27

Yeah, go on. That's a really nice and it's very, you're right, it's refreshing, but it's also very balanced.

Yechiel Wolgel: 14:53

Yeah, I don't. I think in terms of like aromas and flavors, it's not that crazy a conversation Now it's. Actually. When I first started working here, it was like I didn't really get any gooseberry and grapefruit at first. I had to warm up a little bit before I got it. But now I'm getting it a little now, right right, and I just opened that, just poured it. It doesn't have so much of the, so it's interesting. Yesterday someone came here asking this question. One thing I like actually about a live visually summoner blog is that they have like the tropical element a little bit, but I like. So this one, I think, really doesn't, doesn't rear that direction so much, at least in my opinion. I think it depends on the way like, for example, like you know, like Gusha Tsion, like the 2021 summoner blog I thought had a really nice amount of tropical the 22. I felt that could maybe not as much. So they also didn't have a heat wave that the Shafakil didn't. Shafakil elements didn't come out.

S. Simon Jacob: 15:53

Yeah, the aromas. It could be, because it's just cold, the aromas are not so pronounced and it sounds like I feel like this one. Once it warms a little bit it'll be better, but it opened up a little bit, but that said, it's delightful, it's fresh, it's refreshing, it's got acid, it's definitely it's really nice.

Yechiel Wolgel: 16:14

No, I described it as like. So I'm obviously very into wine and I've well again a few of your listeners. I learned WSUT with them in the States. My wife is into beer the way I'm into wine, so in beer they have they obviously like if it's like, if it's like crushable, you know. So I feel like I don't know if I guess it's crushable with a wine, but I feel like this one's like if you could say crushable about a wine. I feel like that this is where it's at and it goes with so many foods. Yeah, like I we, especially in the summer when I was working here, like when it was like really hot, I went through a lot of this.

S. Simon Jacob: 16:48

So what's really special about these lighter, lighter wines that are also crisp and with acid is they go super well with with Israeli flavor it goes in everything Like we've.

Yechiel Wolgel: 17:04

We've had it with fish, we've had it with pasta, we've had it with like. She brought falafel here for me once from. We just sat here and had it with falafel.

S. Simon Jacob: 17:10

It was good it went, like I could imagine, with spice. What goes really great with spice is orange wine. Yes, we've spoken about this, but this is but this is very, very good.

Yechiel Wolgel: 17:21

But actually after you had we had that conversation, I, I, we had like a spicy fish, like sort of, and we had one of the orange wines I have at home with it. I guess I didn't think about doing this, but you mentioned it so many times. So then she's like I want to make a spicy fish and I'm like, wait, yes, make it. I open up one of my a million orange wines I have at home and I went, I went, I went pretty great, right, it's very cool, yeah, but this one for sure goes pretty well with spices.

S. Simon Jacob: 17:51

So were you from originally. We're originally.

Yechiel Wolgel: 17:54

So I was born in the States and New York, but that part of the New York story is basically irrelevant because my parents made LAO when I was six months old. Okay, I lived in Harnoff for a while and then removed from my life. My parents still live, um, yeah, I grew up in my life. I went high school here, army here Um, I don't have some heroic army story. I was in the oven, I had some. After my service was over, I had some in the limb. That was a little more, I guess, for lack of a word, traumatizing, right. Then, just like making sure the food is kosher, yeah, but yes, I did have stir here. I did actually another year of a sheba here after Hester and then after, would you?

Yechiel Wolgel: 18:39

sheba for years. So high school on Hester I didn't, I was in Sullivan and then the extra year I did I was in the Gush. I did Shirov in the Gush, which was fortunate because it was one of the last two or three years that Rolithon Singh gave his.

S. Simon Jacob: 18:52

Gomarash here.

Yechiel Wolgel: 18:53

Wow. Then I went to the States to go to college and to. I guess I needed a break from Israel for a while. Um, I was there for 12 years now. I mostly worked as a teacher and I'm one of the teachers. I was my wife. She was hired as my boss like two weeks before the COVID lockdown basically. So we didn't really work in person so much during COVID.

Yechiel Wolgel: 19:20

That was when I really started getting into wine because they um, kosher winecom did the first I don't know if it's the first, like I know Royal people Online tasting, but they did online kosher WCT level too. And because it was online, they sent you full-size bottles because you didn't just do the tasting at the in the classroom. And that's what I met a lot of people that had. How I got to you was because a lot of my friends from those classes told me I should speak to you, and then they did the level. They did level three as well online. So we already knew at that point we were going to be coming back to Israel. So I was debating if I should do it right now because it was a decent amount of money. But then, like, my wife was like, we're trying to go into wine when you're in Israel anyway, and I was like you know, so why not? She was right.

Yechiel Wolgel: 20:04

So I did level three again. That's why I met a few more people that we know in common. Um, and I was that's, that's, it's a. Really it's only been about two years that I've been like really because and really the reason I did level two was a because I was bored, because we were stuck at home and the American government was storing money at everyone. So I had, I had the money for it, even on a teacher's salary. But I was like I got tired of like going to wine stores and not knowing what I'm talking about. Like, not every wine store is Evia Tower where he can like you tell him three things about what wine you like, and then he yeah, and he was always right.

S. Simon Jacob: 20:37

Yeah, he's always right.

Yechiel Wolgel: 20:38

Yeah, I really liked that thing. He said playlist, but most stores aren't like that. You know, we're living in Brooklyn. There were a few good stores, but not everywhere is like that, and especially here in New Shrine, like you know, all these stores, basically they'll go to wherever that. This, a lot of places will go, based on like if they get a, if, like that, the guy recommending to you gets a commissioner or not, you know.

Yechiel Wolgel: 20:56

So I was like I want to know a little bit more so I'll figure out what I like. But then, once I got into it, I was like okay, this, this, I'm clearly passionate, more, much more passionate about this than I realized. Yeah, and now we'll see. So now, making it's not, it's not marketable wine necessarily, but like there's a friend of mine, meledwin, who makes wine in his garage every year, so now I'm making I'm sorry I have bought into this years it's, it's a big deal to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to even try that and to go through the process and to see what's involved.

S. Simon Jacob: 21:28

Um, hands on, it's a lot different than just tasting wines.

Yechiel Wolgel: 21:32

Yeah, maybe we won't, you know, I know you said you didn't. Like you know, we woke up at four o'clock and went to get the grapes and every day after work, when I was here, I would, I would go to his house and I, you know, punch down the, the, the, the skins, and we do them like the specific gravity measurements to see like how much alcohol it is or whatever. And we did it. I mean, you know all the crushing and the pressing and everything. It's cool Cause, like I read, I just read about it in the books, right, and I was actually doing like I own, like I, because we basically picked it too late.

Yechiel Wolgel: 21:55

The wine's going to be about 18% alcohol. It was dry Um. But so I told I happened to walk into Oreo, a stack of Oreo a few weeks ago, and he was like, well, at least it'll stay, it'll keep, it'll keep. But I said 18% Um. But I've had previous vintages. This guy made um actually, for he also read, I think read Mountain Minor, because it's a maleid domain Um, so now he's a good friend of mine. Actually, um was a friend of my parents, but now he's a good friend of mine as well, Um, and so, yeah, it's been very interesting just to see, like to see the things hands on. It's also very interesting to me to compare. So he only used the wild east, for example. But then Lior, where we're at now, which was a winery, does not use any wild east because he controls it.

Yechiel Wolgel: 22:36

He wants to control no he tells me, like any east I have was originally in the lab, started as a wild east.

S. Simon Jacob: 22:40

Yes, he's like you know, but it's also, as soon as you use any yeast in a winery, the idea of using only wild yeast is ridiculous, because the yeast is all over the winery, it's just in the air. So any any hope you have of any sort of control is gone, unless you're adding your own yeast into it. And by adding your own yeast, you're just simply overpowering all the rest of the yeast that's floating around in the winery. So, um, that's, that's cool. It's interesting, you know. Um? So first, when I got involved with wine, I once I started to learn about things like punching.

Yechiel Wolgel: 23:20

Yeah, let's, let's try, keep going what?

S. Simon Jacob: 23:22

are we going to try? What's the next one? Next one, the shard, okay, good so. Um. So what happened is you know, you learn about punching down, uh, punching down the, what you call this, this, the sediment, and and then you learn later that, wait a second, in really good wineries they don't punch down anything because it's too a aggressive, so they just they pour over.

Yechiel Wolgel: 23:53

I'll tell you so. I'll tell you even more than that.

Yechiel Wolgel: 23:55

So that's why we were right. I obviously we learned that in the course. Yeah, one thing that was cool that I saw when I went to to meet with Lior is that, besides the pumping over, he once a day opens the, the tube, the tube basically, and all the the juice goes out into this big container and then back in. I was just like so I asked him what it was about and he wanted it to touch the oxygen because he said he needs the oxygen. I don't remember the exact number, but he said he needs seven or eight generations of yeast for the full fermentation and the oxygen helps generate these. It needs the oxygen.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:24

I was like yeah, I was like I never.

Yechiel Wolgel: 24:26

I never we'll talk about oxygen a little bit later when we get to the reds, but I just felt like even that was so. It's actually a little. It's kind of cool for me right now because I'm in between the one. The guy making a wine with hands on is very just like, and he also like cause it says in the Gamora somewhere that wine is fermented in 40 days. So he leaves it in for 40 days, even though it doesn't not much happened at the last 20 days, right right, but we still, you know when. Every night it was cool to take. Obviously, as I spoke earlier, it was cool to taste it during the process. I think we're going to do some racking next week actually, but so that's been fun. And then, on the other hand, lior is like a real, he's like a very exact perfectionist. So it's been very interesting for me to learn from both. Both like styles, I guess.

S. Simon Jacob: 25:14

Yeah, that is an interesting. It's an interesting comparison. You know, one of the best ways to compare wines is to have the two wines you're comparing in your glass, in the two glasses, and compare them and actually really compare them. And that makes a huge difference when you're comparing things that are supposed to be similar but you can pick up the nuances between them. But going through that process of actually making wine, while you're looking at how they're doing it in the winery and how you're doing it, your you know, hands on, is really, it's really amazing. It really points out all the differences and all the different potential things you can do.

Yechiel Wolgel: 25:57

I mean, I'm hoping to. I was going to go this year, just didn't, didn't work out. I'm hoping to go to SORIC to do like the actual wine making school. It was a little funny. I'm very much like a very I'm very excitable, like fan boy kind of person. So like when I met Oriah like I've spoken to him so many times on Instagram, just like asking him a million questions, and every one of his I have a thousand, a million questions. So then I tell him, yeah, I think I'm going to SORIC, he goes. You know I went there. I'm like, yes, I know you went there.

Yechiel Wolgel: 26:20

I also know and I just started telling all these things about what he did when he was there, because I like, but so it's hopefully, you know, hopefully that'll that'll come to fruition next year, hopefully Cool, the year after we'll see. But it's interesting because it's like SORIC's just like this, one of the there's a few more schools here now, but it's just school in Israel. And then almost every winery I go to whether it's a bigger winery or if I go to these festivals and they have these little boutique wineries if I find the wine interesting, I'm like let me, guys, you want to SORIC? So I'm curious. I'm just curious what they do there that everyone you know. I thought they get like a very interesting output of people.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:01

Very cool, it's no like, as an example, lewis went to Davis yes, and then he went to UC Davis, and actually so did Yisro Flam yes, was in UC Davis, and there's a bunch of winemakers who've been in UC Davis. They're also they're a lot of really interesting, really good schools globally, either in Italy or in France, or also Donnie Friedenberg went to Cornell.

Yechiel Wolgel: 27:38

It's funny I'm saying this on a podcast. I highly doubt he remembers who I am. He was my chavruta for a little bit.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:43

I'm sure he remembers.

Yechiel Wolgel: 27:46

I haven't spoken to him in over a decade.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:48

Well, you should speak to him, because he makes a phenomenal wine for Tebra Verde.

Yechiel Wolgel: 27:51

I know I remember I don't really go on Facebook that often, but now I've gone more for the wine stuff. But basically since like 2016,. I hadn't been on until I took to WST and then I saw he was like he was living here and then I saw he went to Cornell for wine and he came back. Then I saw he released his line. It helps that he has a very recognizable label. That was a real step out. It was easy for me to recommend to people because I tell them you'll see it.

S. Simon Jacob: 28:20

That was an interesting play by Tebra Burke to allow him to make something that was so different.

Yechiel Wolgel: 28:27

It's especially different from what they normally do. What? Yeah, it's a really scene, but I feel like it's almost surprising that it's coming out of Tebra Burke for somewhere else. Not a fun, yes, but it's fine, because he said it when you interviewed him. But Louis said that I don't remember the exact phrase but that he, at Davis, he learned, like a certain aspect of it at Davis.

Yechiel Wolgel: 28:53

All the science and everything, but I don't remember the exact phrase. It was something about like actually I don't know if actually I don't want to put words in the map, but I don't remember the other aspect of it. He said that they tell you, davis, that you'll get outside when you go to actual wine. I thought that was interesting.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:08

Yeah, there is almost soul of making wine that you pick up from other winemakers and you pick up from experience. But the mechanics are definitely there. That's what you have to get. That's the entry fee to be able to play. But that's what happens.

Yechiel Wolgel: 29:32

Well, that's part of also why he can you know he's. I mean, you have his wine, you have your podcast and you got to try the liquidity too, which I haven't been able to try it. But it's what. He knows, what he's doing.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:49

It was crazy. We tasted some of the other and we tasted a liquidity with him. Emojos, emojos, yeah.

Yechiel Wolgel: 30:00

It was funny. I did a tasting by him actually last. I told you I did a tasting by him last week Like but I'm sure I do mean many others American couple there, and they were going to buy just to be DX. But then I showed the American guy what you wrote about the liquidity on Facebook. So he was so, whatever language you used, and that was, I guess, strong enough that he decided to buy one.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:22

So this one this one is so the first one we had the one we just poured out, so the first one we had was from the School of Premium Series Sonya Mbong 2022. Yep.

Yechiel Wolgel: 30:34

There's one white, one rosé and three res in this series. And then we have the Windmill Project Series where right now I only have one white for you. From it. There is a very limited run. They made called the Wine Lab, where they made about a thousand liters of each of an old wine, caramel, and an old wine, colombar, and they sold as a set. But the last one I had to do for a tasting I opened the one from Schmoll Sofra, so I'm working on getting more. So for now, for the white I have in this series, this is the Chardonnay and I actually like to have it after the Sovian Mbong because it's so different, because it's, like you said, it's relatively simple, like you said, refreshing wine.

Yechiel Wolgel: 31:19

This one is A, obviously it's different great, but also stylistically, half of it was, like I said, certainly an oak, half was a stainless steel, and then it was combined and it was blended. Yeah, but they actually don't grow that far apart, geographically, at least.

S. Simon Jacob: 31:38

Two what are the different levels of the different wines here? So the Windmill Project is the Right.

Yechiel Wolgel: 31:48

The first level is that we don't have here because the winery makes, like I said, four million bottles a year. A decent amount of that is for a lot. We do a lot of restaurant. You just met one of our restaurant reps.

Yechiel Wolgel: 32:00

We do a lot of restaurants, so those are like some of the Bushel wines there In the Shook. They sell them like little, like five for a hundred, four for a hundred. But I'll say as a side note I believe I mentioned this to you before one of the nice things about living here is that all the wineries make pretty solid wines that are three for a hundred. Like you know. As much as I would like to open some crazy wine every day, I can't. So it's nice to have a. Yeah, obviously not age-worthy or anything, but very nice stuff you could have like that. So there's a lot of there's literally millions of bottles like that. Then there's the lowest series that we have here or that we do in festivals. It's called Vintage, which is those two whites you see up there. There's also a. I don't. You remember when you were here last time and this lady was looking for a wine, yes, yes, so that's from the Vintage series. It was a, so it's a Mavik Shiraz.

S. Simon Jacob: 32:57

It was a Mavik Shiraz, it's a Mavik Shiraz, right, right, right.

Yechiel Wolgel: 33:01

So we served that at the Israel Museum Festival this year, yeah, and we had also some of the like higher end stuff, but that like we kept running out of it, wow, and that's like a 40-shuckle wine and it's Again, I'm not going to put it away for a decade, but it's very nice now. So that's the next series, and then we have what's called the Premium series, which is the Somi Amant you just tried. We have the Rosé and then we have Reds and then above that there's the Windmill Project. But the Windmill Project has a few subseries. So one is I mentioned, the Wine Lab, which I unfortunately don't have today.

Yechiel Wolgel: 33:32

One is the Reserve series. You don't have it for tasting, but do you have it? I want more, to get more, because I want to buy for myself. Okay, I can show you what the Karanian bottle is, but I don't. They're saying it's in those boxes, but those are really empty. But yeah, so I, yeah, yes, I actually have been very curious to hear about you, because Keshmurl agreed with me that I think both of them could age, the red and the white in that series. But so we have, like I said, the Wine Lab has a separate story, but even under the Standard Windmill Project. We have Reserve and then Single Vineyard. Every Reserve just means that it's not Single Vineyard. They're all from the Jerusalem Hills area but not a Single Vineyard. We have then the Single Vineyard ones as well. So this Rose Sorry, this is Chardonnay is in the Reserve series and, like I said, half of it certainly in French Hoke for six months. It's a fuller wine.

S. Simon Jacob: 35:02

It fills your mouth, it fills your palate and you know what else. It's not like leaving toothpicks with a lot of oak. It's got some oak, but it's not over-oaked.

Yechiel Wolgel: 35:25

Well, that's part of why it's only half the wine, right Because?

S. Simon Jacob: 35:31

I feel like a lot of stuff with the oak.

Yechiel Wolgel: 35:33

Well, first of all, a lot of wineries have been here where they put it like I've had wines that's like 36 months in oak but the grapes just can't handle it. But also I've had whites here where it's, I feel like it is. It's usually pretty hot here and I feel like the super heavy doesn't always work. So I thought you did a pretty good balance here. Yeah, it is, it's just well balanced. First, in my personal experience with this wine, when I first I've only been here since, I think I got hired like June 30th, basically a few days after I came back to Israel they were hiring. I was just let's go, yeah, but it's also the closest wine rate to where I live.

S. Simon Jacob: 36:12

Right, that has a visitor to something.

Yechiel Wolgel: 36:14

So when I first got hired I didn't think it was so. I don't know if integrator is the right word, but it didn't work as well for me to shard in it. But then on the same end of September I felt like just a little bit of time I had the bottle. I felt that it sort of came together a little more. Now I like it a lot more than I did even just a few months ago.

S. Simon Jacob: 36:40

It is. It's not a typical heavy chardonnay at all, but it's lovely. It's really Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. It is definitely integrated. There's no, it's not like there's pieces hanging around. It's well done from that perspective. It is on a lighter side from other Chardonnays that I've tasted, but that's actually not a bad thing, because it's not so oaky. Very often, oak is used to cover mistakes and cover problems, and this is not like that. This is lovely. The oak does bring out some extra body to it, but it's not like it's not overpowering.

Yechiel Wolgel: 37:34

The one funny experience I have with this one of the funny but sometimes people come here really into wine. So one thing I like to do when people come for tasting is I don't like it so much when I go to wine reviews and they tell me you're going to taste this or you're going to smell this, because, hey, when I started the WCT, I never smelled any of what the teacher said that you were going to smell. I literally just went to the farmers market in New York and just started smelling everything. I went to the forest and smelled everything, and then I got better at it. So if I did all that, all that, it's not fair for me to tell someone who's coming especially someone who tells me they don't know much about wine, like, oh, you're going to smell something for sure, but also I like to. Then I don't like putting the pressure on them, but if they want to discuss it, I have to discuss it.

Yechiel Wolgel: 38:10

So this one specifically a lot of people smell hazelnut and gozele, so I smell some nuttiness sometimes, but a very faint almond. That's what I need to say. I haven't made a new tasting note on this since I started liking it more. Another thing, though, also is that when I first started here, the first thing I smelled was the yeast. Yeah With this, which I think it's not as it's got some yeast to it, but it's not At the beginning, that's.

Yechiel Wolgel: 38:40

That was like immediately.

S. Simon Jacob: 38:40

Oh, you smelled, I smelled dough.

Yechiel Wolgel: 38:43

Yeah, so we have the rosé and then we have there's a lot of reds we can get to, so this one is our only one. That's from the Shambuon, the grapes here, from Nihar Braha, we don't have, so these are pinot noir, the the great, 100% pinot noir. We don't have a pinot noir as a red. He grows these for the rosé. They do early harvest. So I mentioned this earlier, that this, and assuming I'm not, I don't remember if it was a I think that attention when the guy from the winery was here.

Yechiel Wolgel: 39:15

But this is the same series, very similar wines, I think, in terms of the style, pretty relatively high acid and, like I said, fairly refreshing. And you know there's all these, all these wine awards that they have here, but, like in the what's it called the Shkorazaha, they both won this year, I think, just because it was hot and they were refreshing, to be honest. But yeah, so they do it early.

Yechiel Wolgel: 39:41

They do it early harvest with this he does less than an hour with the skin for this and, like I said, this vintage and a few previous vintages have gone. This year specifically, it's been Like I couldn't, like we couldn't stock it enough here, wow, but yeah, so assume the 2023 will come out. I think it's supposed to come out in January 2023. So hopefully it will Because, like I said, we're almost out of this one. But you know, I'll pour it we'll see Because it's pretty. It's the same thing with the two whites it's pretty cold. So hopefully it will, hopefully it will. One thing about this rose is a lot of times when people come here, they either People will either say I don't like whites, I don't like rosés, I don't like reds or whatever, but rosé goes very well with people who come and tell me they don't like rosés.

S. Simon Jacob: 40:40

Wow, this is really lovely.

Yechiel Wolgel: 40:44

Told you. That's why I was like I have to open it. This is really lovely.

S. Simon Jacob: 40:53

You know what's kind of funny? Because out of the three wines, this is the one that's the most pronounced.

Yechiel Wolgel: 41:00

Well, that's so. It's interesting. I'm glad you said that, because I always debate when I produce for people. If I'm really going from lightest to heaviest, I should do the Sauvignon, vain Rose and then the Chardonnay.

S. Simon Jacob: 41:11

I don't like doing that, though, because I think it works much better this way, because if you did that, it would make the Chardonnay look Muted. I think, yeah, look really muted, at least the way we're tasting it now, but also I think it.

Yechiel Wolgel: 41:24

But I also like doing the Chardonnay after the Sauvignon Vain Especially. People don't know anything about wine. It helps you to show, like, what the oak and the leaves will do to it.

S. Simon Jacob: 41:32

Yeah.

Yechiel Wolgel: 41:33

Not very happy with this reaction.

S. Simon Jacob: 41:36

This is really lovely.

Yechiel Wolgel: 41:37

There's a Pinot Noir.

S. Simon Jacob: 41:38

Yeah, wow, 100 Pinot Noir, and actually the aromatics are coming off a bit now too.

Yechiel Wolgel: 41:46

Yeah, so for me there's a lot of like, you know, like red fruit, but obviously what I'm about to say is red too, but I also get a lot. I feel like a decent amount of red apple.

S. Simon Jacob: 41:55

This is much harder and it's got.

Yechiel Wolgel: 41:59

It's like a raspberry or cherry, then on this strawberry. That's why I talked to Valarne. I tell her it's telling her like Rosé. I'm like first of all I tell them you had a Rosé, what grape, what varietal was it? So I don't know, yeah, but it's yeah, you know because also this one, if you look at the label, it doesn't say the varietal on the front. So whenever people come here, like one of the things I tell them whatever, if you don't listen to the technical stuff about the wine, like this is just actual advice If you have Rosé, check with Grape If you like it.

S. Simon Jacob: 42:23

Or especially if you didn't like it, check with Grape yeah check which one you'd like.

Yechiel Wolgel: 42:27

I found personally that I don't love ones that are Cabernet, but then friends might have been like, oh, if you had so-and-so's Rosé, it's great, and I'm just like. I like it, didn't it?

S. Simon Jacob: 42:37

Okay, yeah, no, it's, that's lovely, that's lovely lovely. Yeah, yeah, that's a great Rosé.

Yechiel Wolgel: 42:48

And the wine's going on, the little MCC lights, yeah, and also again, because of the lower, because of the lower series, the prices were reasonable For Reds. We got a lot, really, and I got it all, I got it all, I got it all, I got it all, I got it all, I got it all, I got it all, I got it all, I got it all. If you want.

S. Simon Jacob: 43:03

Tell me where would you? Let's pick four, Pick four. Yeah, pick four. What would you like to?

Yechiel Wolgel: 43:11

So we're going to skip the Cabernet, okay, so what we'll do is like this We'll do two from the Not the Windmill Project series, from the Primitive series, because they're more Mediterranean. Okay, and from what I've heard, you seem to enjoy those.

S. Simon Jacob: 43:24

Yeah.

Yechiel Wolgel: 43:25

So we'll do two from the Single Windmill. We'll do the Petit Badon and the Petit Syrah.

S. Simon Jacob: 43:31

Okay.

Yechiel Wolgel: 43:31

All right. Cool, so let's go to the Single.

S. Simon Jacob: 43:34

Windmill. What's the best selling of the?

Yechiel Wolgel: 43:37

Of the Reds Of the Reds. Well, that's the one I'm about to give you. Okay, we're also almost out of it, so this is the. So in the series, we have three Reds. There's a Cabernet. We have three Cabernets actually Right, so there's the Cabernet in this series. This is called.

Yechiel Wolgel: 43:51

This is we're back to the Premium series, which the Rosé and Sauvignon Blanc were, right, and these are Young Reds, they're 2021, but they're very much a drink now, and there's a Cabernet in the series for people who want Cabernet at that price point. Okay. We then have a Cabernet Windmill Reserve meaning not single vineyard which is 12 months in oak it's 2018. It was 12 months in oak and then a year Well, now two years in the winery already. We have also a single vineyard, cabernet from 2018, which was 15 months in oak, and I think that actually needs a little more time. So I usually serve any of the Cabernets. I serve the Windmill, not single vineyard one. Okay, what we're going to do, though, from this series is we have a Marseillean and then we have a Marseillean-Carrignon blend Cool, so we'll try these. The Marseillean is I say this a lot about wine that tastes very much subjective.

S. Simon Jacob: 44:45

Yeah.

Yechiel Wolgel: 44:45

So the most important thing for me is that I'm not bored by it because I have it. My taste doesn't match with the person, fine, there's no way to control that. Even the people who don't love this say that it wasn't boring. I'm like great. But other people this is a British guy who so we haven't really been advertising so much, I've just been posting on Facebook or whatever it's like. His wife's friend was like oh, I saw this thing.

Yechiel Wolgel: 45:08

Maybe you should go. He's bought dozens, Like yesterday. I got a box of it and he just came in. I didn't even make it to the shelf, he just came in and took it. He's buying it for his wife because of the MRS Right, so it would be a wedding wine. So, even though I got married here and the wine was obviously provided, the Chupa wine wasn't from here. I used the Ezra Canegda.

S. Simon Jacob: 45:37

Yeah, we just had some of that, not last night, but the night before I said can I have it?

Yechiel Wolgel: 45:45

You could edit this out or not, but I got to say I would like to be invited to these mojo dinners.

S. Simon Jacob: 45:51

I'd love to. I'm sorry, I would love to.

Yechiel Wolgel: 45:54

Good. So I went there and I actually gave him some wine because we stopped first at wine friends, because it was my wife's birthday. So we stopped first at wine friends and we got this very nice wine actually Sweet guy there your wine friends. Yeah, it's a really nice place.

S. Simon Jacob: 46:07

The person who owns it is a sweet guy, Ruben.

Yechiel Wolgel: 46:10

Yeah, he stops by sometimes, so I thought he's a really nice guy. So we got this Dalton wine called Tsurimon. I sent you a picture of it. Yeah, yeah yeah, it's like this random varietal they found for the only ones that make it. Basically it was very light and very nice. We didn't finish it and then we went to dinner. So I told Tsurimon I heard him on the podcast so he had some of the Vidkampino noir. He gave me some and I gave him some of the Tsurimon.

S. Simon Jacob: 46:35

Yeah, our relationship started by sharing bottles.

Yechiel Wolgel: 46:40

So you said the story on the podcast of how you became friends because you didn't mind waiting. And then he asked me when I met him he's like you know how.

S. Simon Jacob: 46:48

Simon and I became friends, that's a great varietal.

Yechiel Wolgel: 46:54

This is what it's a great varietal. This is the Marzilla. Yeah, so really only half of it was actually an oak, even Finished for a few months. The rest were just in stainless steel. It's wonderful, because he wanted it to just be.

S. Simon Jacob: 47:07

Super deep red, beautiful, beautiful color it's actually a little darker.

Yechiel Wolgel: 47:14

I think it is a little purple, like if you were in the sun, yeah no, no, no, it's.

S. Simon Jacob: 47:18

Yeah, it is purple as well, it's really deep and it's got great viscosity and it's just really nice.

Yechiel Wolgel: 47:31

So yeah, of the reds, this one. Actually, this is the Patissiere. Let's see which we'll get to.

S. Simon Jacob: 47:37

What the Patissiere?

Yechiel Wolgel: 47:39

This and the Patissiere are the ones that. So I'll explain how he does it. Basically is that we'll not have it do this, but he gets the Marzilla from different vineyards those he puts in the bottle and then the ones that are a little more muted go into the blend with the curingan, because the curingan is old vines and it has a pretty. So if we had this Marzilla, I think, with the old wine curingan, I don't know that it would blend as well. So that's why we asked him separately. And this one. Well, you see me, elizabeth Kratz. Yeah, sure.

Yechiel Wolgel: 48:15

Yeah, so she took WST with me and she keeps trying to get them to export this to the states. This one's going. This is beautiful.

S. Simon Jacob: 48:25

This is a bottle and it has a big MRS on the front of it, so it's easy to find.

Yechiel Wolgel: 48:32

Yes, and someone said that we should have one like maybe a more low work with the MR, because then you could do it as a pair.

S. Simon Jacob: 48:38

For We've had a few.

Yechiel Wolgel: 48:40

American brides that come in and want this just because of the name. But these two basically, especially the Marzilla, like you want to. Don't leave them in the fridge for three days. You want to drink?

S. Simon Jacob: 48:56

it yeah.

Yechiel Wolgel: 48:57

Like it has some. Like it has some viscosity, but the structure isn't really there to stay open for very long, To support it for long but it's actually it's a lovely wine.

Yechiel Wolgel: 49:12

Yeah, Very cool. It's also great that we have this here because, especially if we will come, who? Well, first of all, because it's good, people like it. But people come, like I said again, who don't know so much about wine and I try to explain to them the difference between the young red for something else. So, if I give them Again, when I kind of get to the cab, like the 2018 cab versus this, there's a lot of things that aren't fruit going on in the 28. It also was 12 months ago, like I said, so it's very this is very approachable.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:37

Yes, this is actually very interesting. The Marzilla is very it's very varietally correct, right, so that's why this is the one that's like I said solo, and then the Marzilla here is a little more muted, but still I liked it.

Yechiel Wolgel: 49:52

So this one is substantially lighter. The one I'm about to have it's substantially lighter than the one you just had.

S. Simon Jacob: 49:56

Okay.

Yechiel Wolgel: 49:57

But I basically decided that I'd rather give the single varietal Marzilla on first, and then I tell people, see if you can sort of find it, find the.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:05

Marzilla.

Yechiel Wolgel: 50:06

Find it in the blend, but it's the lightest of our reds In the summer. So now the Marzilla overall is the one that sells the best In the summer, the one you're going to have now sold the best Because it's the lightest of our reds.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:17

I would believe it, because this is very approachable and it's really and we also just opened it yeah, no 100%.

Yechiel Wolgel: 50:27

But so this you'll see now is so this one, the Marzilla and the one you just had? Yeah, so the Carmel area, that's the MRS one. Yeah, now we have the red blend, so it's half Marzilla from the Neely area and half Old Vines, about 40, 45 years old Vines, carinian, from Minamina. Okay, this one, though this is kind of interesting thing. It's interesting to me At least. I told you before. I'll get back to mentioning oxygen later. Yeah, this is the point before I mentioned oxygen. So basically, this is so deep in color I guess I will try it and then I'll tell you the oxygen. I love the aroma on this one.

S. Simon Jacob: 51:04

Yeah, mmm, it is muted, but it's not. It's lovely and it's got an incredible aroma.

Yechiel Wolgel: 51:14

So the story here what I was saying with the oxygen, yeah Is that basically, lior said he needs some oxygen during the fermentation for these, like I said he needs, yeah, but either seven and eight or eight or nine, whatever Generations of these tenets, okay, they said once the fermentation is done, the oxygen essentially starts aging. Yeah, these are young reds. They don't want any aging. Additionally, you know, everyone knows basically that not every Israeli wine is age worthy. So he, basically he spins me like this Right now the winery is using 225 liter barrels.

Yechiel Wolgel: 51:44

That I don't know how you measure grams of oxygen, yeah, but he said that does one to one and a half milligrams of oxygen per liter per month. And there's the thing Now he doesn't want he wants to have less of an oxygen effect. Additionally, in wine like this, he wants less of an oak effect. So, first of all, these are old, these are older barrels. Second, he's now switching the whole winery to using what's called Hogshead, which is what's used for whiskey. So 300 liters, yeah, it's going to take about four to five years to get the whole winery switched over, but this is the first wine made with these 300 liter barrels.

S. Simon Jacob: 52:14

Wow.

Yechiel Wolgel: 52:15

So that there's less of an oxygen effect. Well, also, as far as I know like someone came here who he does these wine festivals called Mai Yain, he's actually in the middle of the year.

S. Simon Jacob: 52:26

Yeah, I know, nati.

Yechiel Wolgel: 52:28

Nati was here and I had him try this and he said no, he doesn't think.

S. Simon Jacob: 52:30

I'm one of the country makes this this one. I don't think so either, so I asked him. It's called red blend. It's called R blend. Yes.

Yechiel Wolgel: 52:43

And I see he told me that yeah, he said that in Code de Ronde. You'll find it because you've learned their friends in Australia. So, for example, we're not opening it but we could if you want. Actually I don't know why I said that, but we have a dessert one. It's a fortified shiraz because you learned how to make that in Australia Because after it was in France it was in Australia. So it's interesting about it. It's fortified with brandy that was a 20-year-old brandy from the winery and it's done. So this is a one-time deal, this fortified shiraz. The next run that they're going to make next year is going to be basically with a record. That was just aged wine barrels, but it's not a 20-year-old brandy. But if you look online for fortified shiraz, there's a lot of it in Australia but not much out of Australia. And then after that he also ages it from the other 12 months after the fortification.

S. Simon Jacob: 53:39

So it sounds like he's taking the winery in a new direction.

Yechiel Wolgel: 53:46

He's been working there for how long now? Here 2018. 2018 is when he came, and then before that he was over a decade, as far as I know, in Carmel. So you got us off Pazan and he mentioned that he so he weighed some changes in Carmel and then Lior came and made some more. I think the wines that both of them made they are probably some of the best they've made. Now we're going to do so. These are again the Windmill Project series, but these are single vineyard, single varietal and 15 months in oak.

S. Simon Jacob: 54:16

Very cool.

Yechiel Wolgel: 54:17

The Petit Vidal is 2019. The Petit Syrah is 2018. The Petit Vidal is from the Jerusalem area. The Petit Syrah is also Bin Amina again, and it's old wines, again 45-year-old wines, and actually we'll see. So we just discussed the two reds from the Marcellan alone in the Marcellan blend, pretty much 50-50 people's preference, and it's also true here. I'm going to Petit Vidal first, which I hope hopefully will work out well. I'll tell you afterwards why. But it's also pretty much split into the two as well, which I'm hoping people like more. That's another thing we always tell them about the Petit Vidal. We say, like he said it used to be maybe three and 10 vintages you can make now, because it's hotter, you can get. He thinks it's almost like seven and 10 years. You can get the Petit Vidal to be ripe enough to do it as a single varietal.

S. Simon Jacob: 55:26

Well, that's really interesting information.

Yechiel Wolgel: 55:29

What the heat. Thing.

S. Simon Jacob: 55:30

Yeah, no that it's made that much of a.

Yechiel Wolgel: 55:33

I wasn't expecting it to be that high. I thought it said like five or so. I mean, I guess an eight and five and seven isn't that big, but also the way he said it it sounded very dramatic.

S. Simon Jacob: 55:40

Right yeah.

Yechiel Wolgel: 55:42

Got it, so that's the win-win project. Petit.

S. Simon Jacob: 55:46

Vidal. Every one of these wines has tasted significantly different.

Yechiel Wolgel: 55:53

Yes.

S. Simon Jacob: 55:53

No, it's like sometimes they don't. Sometimes different wineries, their wineries with the wines, have a very similar play in each of them and these are very different. Everyone is different. This is lovely smell and also beautiful, deep, rich.

Yechiel Wolgel: 56:13

Both of these. I think the color is like Off the charts, yeah. But this is also why I was saying that I like having them on salon, because if I'm trying to explain to people the difference between aging or not, et cetera, I give them a more salon kind of some tenants but mostly fruit, yeah, and then I either give them this or the Cera or the Cabernet. It's just very clear what the differences are.

S. Simon Jacob: 56:37

Well, no, I think for certain people, little say well, I don't want this, I want the more salon, because they're the tenants. It's the mouth, the mouth feel and the approachability to it.

Yechiel Wolgel: 56:50

I decided to open up new ones because I wanted them to be all. I have one from yesterday.

S. Simon Jacob: 56:56

That's okay. No see, if you want to see that that's a good idea, I would love to try it. I would love to try it. That's actually so. This is from yesterday.

Yechiel Wolgel: 57:06

It's really smart. That's why I moved these out. I wanted to make sure it was all given in the right ones at the right time.

S. Simon Jacob: 57:12

Yeah, it's calmed right down, but even the aromatics have calmed down on it as well. Yeah, even the aromatics will come down.

Yechiel Wolgel: 57:24

So I'm going to do the same thing for you with the VTC round. I have one from yesterday and I want one now.

S. Simon Jacob: 57:32

Yeah, it's much sharper. It really needs time to open. That's lovely.

Yechiel Wolgel: 57:39

I like this one. I mean, I liked this one a lot when I came last year, when it didn't work here, so this is the one we bought, let's do it.

S. Simon Jacob: 57:50

Very cool Yep.

Yechiel Wolgel: 57:55

What's interesting, though, is what you said is generally true about people who aren't so into wine, or especially people who don't like red wine so much the Marcellon kills every time.

S. Simon Jacob: 58:04

Yeah, because it's really in your face. It's bold.

Yechiel Wolgel: 58:08

But surprisingly it's usually not both of them but the gravitators, one of these two also, the Petit Vida or Petit Cira, the people who say they're not so much into that kind of thing.

S. Simon Jacob: 58:20

Which one did they go?

Yechiel Wolgel: 58:21

towards the T-Tradot, the non-wine. People go more towards Petit Cira You'll see when we get to it Because I think in terms of flavors I think it's almost interesting of the wines. That's why I do it last. Basically I don't know which one I like more, the Petit Vida or Petit Cira. It goes depends on the week, but in terms of the consistent reaction from people it works best when I do the Petit Cira last because I think it has the most varied and complex flavors and aromas of the reds we have.

S. Simon Jacob: 58:53

It's the same wine, but it's definitely open.

Yechiel Wolgel: 58:58

What do you get from this? Aroma-wise or flavor-wise?

S. Simon Jacob: 59:03

Strong cherry, yeah, strong cherry, yeah, strong cherry, but they're not sweet cherries at all.

Yechiel Wolgel: 59:13

This is like really so it's fascinating to me to tell me that, because when that, it's just interesting to me how these evolve in the bottles. When I had this last year, I thought it smelled like cherry candy.

S. Simon Jacob: 59:24

Right, that's not even more. But then when I got here this year, I started working here and making my notes.

Yechiel Wolgel: 59:31

When I got here, I tasted everything. I know it's. I thought cherry I didn't like cherry candy. Right, I didn't like cherry at the beginning, but it's like cherry, it's like very tart cherries, now that I'm so, even though it's only one, except for, obviously, this short knife that's from this year, they're different vintages, they were all bottled, they were all released. Well, now it's been a second year since the release.

S. Simon Jacob: 59:58

Okay.

Yechiel Wolgel: 59:59

There's only been one release of the Wemo project so far.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:00:04

So even their different years, the vintages. Yeah, they held them in bottles.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:00:08

So we have. Actually I have to give you some of that.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:00:10

I'm curious.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:00:13

Actually, I have an open session. If you're a little bit too, let's start with. So, either way, the Petit Syrah, something that. Another thing that's easy for me to present to people is that I had the one from yesterday which we'll get to, but also even this one, this one really, really I find more so than the other ones like really changes in the glass.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:00:38

They're all so deep, they're incredible color. This is more apples, pretty sure I wrote them.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:00:51

I wrote a lot for this one. Yeah, on the palette I wrote. The first thing I wrote was apples yeah, but this one, even just in the glass, will turn a lot more, just a lot more tertiary stuff that comes, comes out of it, it comes out of it.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:01:16

I'll also give you the one from yesterday, of course. Yeah, I'm noticing that, just even in my mouth, this is also calmed down significantly. Yeah, these are ones that need some time. Yeah, it's not only opened, but they need some time to really come out. These were much more approachable. This is approachable, but if the tannins are there, it's building. You know, it's even the one that was open yesterday. It needs time, but lovely.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:02:26

No, that's again what I told you. It's like it's 2018 to 2021, but the 2021 is way more ready to drink, I think, Right.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:02:35

Yeah, they're totally different. Yeah, I think he's trying to accomplish very different things.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:02:44

between these wines there's a lot of wineries here that do that, which is something that I mean. I like it as well. We've spoken about this, but I'm obsessed with Agur, and they have their young red quesem Right, and then they have the layam and the special, the shmiram yukheta they call it Very different. Yeah, you put that away for a while, and you should probably put it away for a while, but the quesem is just go for it.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:03:14

It's kind of funny. There are people who say Israel used to make age-worthy wines but it doesn't anymore.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:03:25

What wine did they refer into?

S. Simon Jacob: 1:03:29

They're referring to the old yard dens, like the original Golan Heights ones. Yeah, the Golan Heights ones, the pre-2008 wines.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:03:41

That's so specific.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:03:43

Yeah, is that specific Enough for you? The truth is that I think that a bunch of the winemakers decided that they were going to make approachable wines rather than striving to make wines that people wouldn't like when they opened them up. But it didn't stop them from making age-worthy wines at the same time, and that's what happens. It's also funny because a lot of the wine people have a tendency to open up like 20, 22s, 20, 17s, 20, 19s, and drink them and say, oh, they're not there. They're not there because they're too young to be drinking.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:04:50

But I don't know, at least for me, that's the way I see things. But everybody is very subjective and I admit to not having the finest palate. Thank God I haven't tasted my way into a corner of a room where I can't drink anything else. I let go, because after a while some people get into a position where they can't drink anything and I think it's not exactly what I want and I prefer this and that. Okay, I'm a little bit open. Still, I'm trying to keep my mind at least somewhat open to the world.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:05:34

And I thought that people would come here all the time. I find the women are actually more open to trying other things, but a lot of them like no Rosé is for girls. Don't say women, say girls. Why do they say it's for women or do they say it's for girls so many? If you tried this, this was a relatively interesting.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:05:59

It's definitely not for girls. I mean not that girls don't like it, but it's definitely not what they mean when they say for girls.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:06:07

But then okay. So then let's go further. If you had Guido's Rosé, half of it's an oak, it's a blend very complex. Or the Navet, the Chateau-Goland sculpture line, they have a Rosé. It's 90-grinage 10-series. I've never tasted that.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:06:22

I've never tasted that kosher line, the Navet it's very good.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:06:26

It is, yes, it's very good. They have a white, a rosé and a red, but there was if you just take this rosé, the Guido and a Navet one, for example, or they don't make it anymore. The Bachelonmo had the Jody Summerblend, but they're 100% Caribbean. Yes, these aren't the same animal, and they're all from Israel and they're all Rosé.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:06:50

I've never tasted the Navet yet.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:06:52

It's very good. So that was I generally in terms of festivals here. So one of the reasons I like Nati is because, so he doesn't take money from the wineries. Nati, he does his Mayan festival. They call it that, so he it's not that it's called Mayan, so that's why it's festival. So he doesn't charge the wineries. So therefore he gets a lot of small boutique wineries. So that's why they discovered Agour, so I discovered Bazaar, that's why it's discovered Rotem. These are older people I met at his festivals, or Munits, I met at his festival, like all these people, Benami he's the one from the Bicatae, Arden Benami.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:07:30

His rosé is also really good.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:07:32

It's Merlot Pinot Noir and something else I think Merlot Pinot Noir and Cira. I met them all there. It was great and I really enjoyed those ones. But then, like you have it, it's a museum when it's mostly the big wineries and they don't really bring what you would call the good stuff necessarily. But this year N'Vet sort of had a launch, sort of previous year Shatogolan was there. There's also a museum.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:07:56

They have a museum. Do you want to go out? The museum is also used here.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:08:01

It's a little bit bigger here you can see me. Do you want to see me?

S. Simon Jacob: 1:08:08

Yes.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:08:10

You can look from the window here to see what I'm doing.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:08:12

You can see me.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:08:15

You can see me you can see me. You can see me, you can see me, you can see me. I was very nervous because we were shooting. So usually we had Shatogolan, a big non-coachers sign. But this year we had Shatogolan and N'Vet and I had no idea that N'Vet was a thing.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:08:37

I knew that Shatogolan had a kosher wine, but they branded it separately. It's a separate name.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:08:48

It's not a N'Vet by-ship Like.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:08:50

Mataram.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:08:51

Peltar. They have a red. I don't know if I have it on my head. They have a red which is a 2019. I believe it's Cabernet, from Three Vineyards. The Rose is, I know it's 90% Grenache, 10% Cira they told me it's Cira's Mosey for color, though not for flavor, and a white that I believe. I believe the language they say is Sauvignon Blanc based. I believe what it says on the bottle. They tasted good. I bought all three. I thought they had really nice stuff. I bought all three. So if I've only opened one Mosey, also for the Shabbat, after I've been planning for years, my Shabbat because I know four wines, and then when our first Shabbat, after the Shabbat, because we were alone, so that's the way we had that After the Yardin Blanc de Blanc de Discourge and then had an Ave Rosé there also. Wow, but I think it's a little on the pricey side.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:09:47

It was always pricey, but that they're doing Kosher is a big deal. Yeah, ave is Kosher Kosher. I know, I know, I know, that's what they decided, yeah, I didn't go with Kosher or what they wanted to do.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:09:57

I heard you talk big about this with Adam. Montefiore, when you had him on when you mentioned this winery briefly. That episode Right, but there's been first of all this place. They have Tsohar now Some of that Tsohar stuff. I know there's a whole story about Tsohar Hexhoring older wines, whatever.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:10:10

Yes, yes.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:10:11

But just like, for example, talk about Rotem, one of these wineries I found at Yattsis Festival. So they make a Cabernet, they make a Malbec and they make a Columbard orange wine. The Malbec is amazing and the orange wine is very, very good too. They. But they're a from family from which it's Seon Right, they kind of afford their habanuts prices, but they're from Shomashawa's family and they got Tsohar, I don't. And it says on the thing Tumot, masot, everything you know on the bottles no shemitano, teve, whatever. I'm fine with that, me too.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:10:43

You have other people like this guy, if you heard of him. His name is Yakev Dany, who is he's a nudge up in the best way. I'm saying this as a very much a compliment that he's a nudge up he's out of. I think he's silly, I don't remember, but he went to Sorex just as a hobby, as a as what happens? He makes this wine. Only the they're not from, but only the family makes the wine and they don't work in Shabbat. That doesn't sell them, masot, but it says on the thing we don't, we don't, we don't work in Shabbat. His wines are very interesting. I wish they were kosher because I wouldn't recommend like kosher, kosher, because then I could, because I ended up spitting out his, his, his wine. I can't, but I'm smarty, oh.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:11:26

I think you can't spit non kosher wines. You can't taste and spit.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:11:29

That's one of the reasons why it's so with his so interesting, I don't know, like how, you know, I don't know, I felt like it was. I think one of them actually ended up not spitting, but because of the 2016, I didn't. I'm not spitting in 2016.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:11:43

Because it's not good yeah, like I started giggling when.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:11:47

I tried it. Right, there's some wines that are like that. You know, actually we had Lewis's wine in. Lewis brought this bottle of the 2014. Right, that we talked about and we started tasting. We started drinking it in Mojo and everybody started to giggle. Everybody started to giggle. Oh, you know, we had like five of us there, six of us there, five of us there, and we all started to giggle. It was like this is like crazy. Yeah, this is like you know. You know that it's crazy. It was just awesome.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:12:24

So just because I I don't usually have this open right, but I happen to have open, so basically he got Lior came here in 2018. Yeah, they already had started making. The previous wine maker had essentially barreled the wines for the flagship blend. So then Lior made the blend. I don't think it was Sam, I think it was the something in between?

S. Simon Jacob: 1:12:43

I don't remember someone in between.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:12:44

Okay.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:12:46

The next one is coming out in 2019, sorry, it's already passed in 2019, obviously, but the 2019 one that will come out is all. I believe they actually are starting exporting it to the States, but they don't have it here yet. What is it? So it's the call special reserve. It's essentially a Bordeaux blend. It's a Cabernet Merlot. I got you. I got you. It's a Cabernet Merlot and Petit Bordeaux.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:13:05

So this opened yesterday because there was a guy who was he owns this. You know, he's the manager of the bar here in town called Hagoren, which is only local spirit, like everything is like the whiskey, the gin, everything. I mean these are brands people know, but he only has Israeli. So he had like a day after me, so he came here so I opened this for him. It's only with a fourth of a time that I've opened this. So because one of these costs as much as two of the Petit Bordeaux and Petit Zero, but this one is not 100% Lior. So Lior had them, like this is 2017, you got here in 2018. But he then made the blend and he aged it again. So they were each aged in their own barrel and then he blend, like I think he does it Amichad, elzebot, dalmoseik, where he blends them separately. What's the varietals? Again, cabernet, merlot and Petit Bordeaux, and then there were seven months together in the barrels and then, but they were bottled.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:14:04

This needs years.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:14:07

Yeah, so you see my open yesterday. Wow, and you're saying that.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:14:09

Yeah, but I figured I have it open.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:14:13

I might as well have a try.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:14:15

It's delicious. This is incredible that I can taste that. It's going to be like wow, and this is from yesterday. Yeah, crazy, wow.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:14:31

I'm very excited that the taste, the one that he, I'm excited for that, even though it will be obviously a lot less ready for drinking. But I'm excited to try this 2019 to see how he, you know, when he had, I feel like when he has full control over the things, yeah, so you know, like with the Sauvignon Blanc, he said like, oh, there was no heat waves, but there was plenty of heat waves this year and I tasted next to Sauvignon Blanc. It was still pretty nice.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:14:52

Where does? Where does he come from? Is it Israeli? This?

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:14:55

is Israeli. He learned in France. I don't remember wearing France. He learned in France, and then he also, and then he worked in France for a while, and then he worked in Australia for a while, which is what he learned about.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:15:02

This is a typical this is a typical play. Same with Golan Flam also.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:15:10

Yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:15:10

He worked in when I heard him.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:15:11

he mentioned him yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:15:13

And then he worked in. He worked in what you call it. He went to South Africa and Australia.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:15:17

Yeah, and then he, and then, and then he came, and then he was in Carmel for a long time, and now he's here.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:15:25

Well, very interesting this is. This is really cool. I'd love to see where this is going to go. I'm going to actually try some of that.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:15:34

I didn't notice anything was because I, I, I, who you mentioned in the package before you on, but I didn't realize it was a Sfarid thing.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:15:40

I'll tell you what the issue with Sfarid is. The issue is that I'm not allowed to get any Hana'a from non-coach or worse it's about Hana'a. Well, we can do it. Well, it's Ashkenazi and it's fun.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:15:51

It's a Sfarid, it's a Sfarid, it's a Sfarid, it's a Sfarid, it's a Sfarid, it's a.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:15:53

Sfarid it's, a Sfarid it's a. Sfarid. It's a Sfarid, it's a Sfarid. It's a Sfarid. It's a Sfarid, it's a Sfarid, it's a Sfarid.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:16:08

So I wanted. I didn't have this number because I had it yesterday. Yeah, it's. It's fascinating to me how this, like it almost tastes like the Petit Vida we just opened. Yeah, a little bit.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:16:20

Here's a texture, but it I feel.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:16:24

Sorry, it feels like the Petit Vida. It's open.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:16:29

Yeah, it's a similar feel.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:16:31

But yeah, you're asking what those are. What is belief? So this is. I didn't open this one for you, no no, no, no, no, no I'm saying I have it from yesterday if you want to try it. Actually, this is the reserve windmill Cabernet. Yeah, so I mean it's not single vineyard 12 months.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:16:50

Yeah.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:16:52

The winery sponsors the local basketball team at Polyover Shalheim. Oh, so they won the Gavia, which is the secondary championship in Israel, last year. So they made I apologize this year. So it's the exact same line, but that one cost 55 Shalheim more Because they bottled it in that label. Yeah, over there, if you look, we have like a three-liter magnum that the team signs, wow.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:17:14

So when I got married here, my nephew was the one who was born in 2014. Right, he's a big upholstered Shalheim fan. So we're like I'm like working on, like getting my ADM and everything. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like the ceremony part of the wedding.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:17:27

And he comes up to me and he's pulling my suit and he's pulling me.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:17:31

He's like where's the signed bottle? I'm like no, it was outside, though, oh, and they wouldn't let him in here because there was preparing stuff in here. So he's like where's the bottle? I'm like not this second, I'm working on like literally getting married. And he's just like no, he's like no, I need to see the bottle.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:17:46

It was very funny.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:17:47

He was like I don't think, I think actually I should have not seen it, but we have that.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:17:54

By the way, have you seen?

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:17:55

I assume you've seen this picture, but these two pictures you've seen, right? I haven't I haven't. No, come on, I'll come over. So you guys showing people coming for the tour. I'm going to do the tour. I got a little bit, so that's how the window was in the British papers, which I like that we have that because they built a new top based on the original design.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:18:13

Right, and you can see that, then this is when the Hagenah had a bunker on top Right and then there's this bunker up here, but then I just think this is a really cool picture, which are the main ones that I wanted to show you. Wow, this is the moment the British blew it up. You know it's the moment they blew it up because, you see, the wings are still attached.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:18:30

Yes Wow.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:18:32

I'm guessing they told someone or they tip someone or they had a photographer of their own, but this is like literally the moment of the explosion and then you remember that obviously. That's how you still look before the rotation yeah yeah, so I'm just going to go ahead and do some writing and wine stuff, if people at all would like to see any of that.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:18:53

So I also show media stuff.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:18:55

It's just very simple. You're going to drink wine, which my wife suggested. Actually, I was looking for all these clever puns with it, but then I said you're going to drink wine, Then people. It makes it easier for people to identify me.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:19:08

Like because it has my name in it which she was 100% correct about it.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:19:13

So she's going to eventually do a beer one. So it's going to be Celine Her name is Celine, it's a similar brand and then hopefully I'm going to write some stuff into other places. But I'm working on a few things. I like to review some festivals, but my big thing I'm working on now is I know you spoke with Evietar about Telen wine, so they have this English version like a gigailleu. But there's an academic article that was written for the Harmonasche Archaeological Survey when they found these ancient vineyards in the Chermont with a method of growing the grapes they don't have anywhere else in the world, basically, and Telen is recreating that. Have you had any?

S. Simon Jacob: 1:19:51

other wines? No, I had one.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:19:53

yes, Well, you had a thing the Sirine Stones. They also have a drag aversed chimney. That's really good, which I know from people that love it. I love that.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:20:03

So I met them at a festival.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:20:04

I'm going to actually go up there once the war comes down. So I'm working because there's this academic article written about the method and then I'm at a wine. That's one of the big things I'm working on now. I'm amazingly seeing where I'm going to publish that, but I might give it to someone we spoke about earlier. But so yeah, I'm doing a few things right now, but during the day I'm here, people are welcome to come. I love it. I love it. You did a great job, thank you. You heal, awesome. Yes, really awesome.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:20:38

This was really lovely. Thank you, you heal. Thank you for being on the coach here at Chihuahua. Thanks for having me.

Yechiel Wolgel: 1:20:42

We're going to share.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:20:44

Okay, this is Simon Jacob, again your host of today's episode of the Kosher Tawah. I have a personal request no matter where you are or where you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldier's safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages and, whenever possible, buy and share Israeli wine. I hope you have enjoyed this episode of the Kosher Tawah. It was exciting and informative for me as well. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you're new to the Kosher Tawah, please check out our many past episodes. Again, thank you for listening to the Kosher Tawah. The Kosher Tawah is also available on the Nachom Siegel Network at 6.30 pm New York Time Thursday evening and on the world famous NSN app.