17 Top Kosher Wine Celebrities Discuss the Four Questions Around a Global Virtual Seder Table

S Simon Jacob: 0:09

Welcome to the Kosher Teruah. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, I ask that, wherever you are, please take a moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all of our hostages. This pre-Pesach episode is going to be both interesting and very special. I've reached out around the globe to some 10 or 15 friends wine friends and posed the following four questions. It's Pesach, after all. Do you have a go-to strategy for handling the four cups at the Seder? Do you start with light wine? Heavier wine, red, white, sweet, dry wine? Question number two If you have or had two Seders, does your strategy change for the second night? Three, do you have specific wines you would suggest for each of the four cups? And finally four, can you share one really special or interesting custom or tradition that either you do at the seder with your family or you have experienced at someone else's Seder?

S Simon Jacob: 1:27

This turned out to actually elicit way more diversity than I thought possible. Please excuse some of the sound quality, because I was reaching out to people literally all over the world and, as Pesach is an extremely busy time, many of the people that I reached out to were in their cars or in the middle of transit. Finally, these are just simply excerpts from the original recordings of the interviews. The entire interviews ran for hours and hours. That said, this is still a very long podcast, but I figured, as people are preparing for Pesach and people have a lot of work to do, that you could simply listen to this in the background and enjoy your pre-Pesach activities. If you're driving, please focus on the road. If you're home, please open a great kosher wine and either work through those Pesach chores or sit back and enjoy. So, michael K, welcome to the Kosher Terroir. Our special Pesach edition Wonderful. I'm calling to ask do you have any special Pesach strategies for the four cups?

Michael Kaye: 2:43

I do. As a matter of fact, you know, I think everybody who enjoys the wine, in particular as part of the Pesach Seder, has some kind of strategy, master plan, and probably, in some ways, is frustrated that there's only four cups. And probably, in some ways, is frustrated that there's only four cups yeah, because they would really like to plan out multiple layers of opportunity to try different wines. But that being said so, I like to start off with a big red, and the reason I do is twofold, and the reason I do is twofold. One, I like to get a little bit of a buzz before I start this very long process. And here is an opportunity for me to take a gesund amount of wine and kind of get me in an altered state so that you know it's special, it feels special. You know, kiddush is always something that is about transitioning from a non-holy space to a holy space. The second thing is that I have the ability to carry it. You know it's still early in the evening, I've got plenty of energy, I haven't had a whole bunch of other wines, I'm not super full, I'm not just doing it out of obligation, like I genuinely want to have the wine, and so that's what I start with Now we happen to. This year just released a Petit Syrah in Bayes. Petit Syrah, that fits that, but I can think of numerous Big Reds that would be great in that space. Then I feel like it's a matter of pacing oneself.

Michael Kaye: 4:59

If I were and I say this because I go to different types of seders or host different types, you know, and some everybody wants to get out of Mitzrayim immediately and the whole seder, from start to finish, is done in 90 minutes and others don't finish till 630 in the morning, you know, adding sherry and whatever else. And so you know, if I'm moving quickly through a Seder, I need to not just be for me, not just be drinking reds and heavy. I need some lightness, and even if I'm doing a longer Seder, I need that as well, except for potentially, the last wine. So, like, what I might do is start off with the big red, then go to either a light red, like a Pinot for example, something that's like oh okay, this is nice, right, or I'm going to do something like an interesting white, a Sancerre, a Sancerre, a Sancerre Inve, muscat, cannelli, dry, perfect, it's got a. It's got a nice. Uh, it's very aromatic but it's dry, so it's not sweet, any of that, but it's going to refresh you and refresh your palate and it's not going to feel like now you're weighted down under two things of big wine, which I have experienced before, and it starts to become. It starts to become a nevada as opposed to a pleasure, and since it's a night of freedom, I think there should be as much pleasure as, as you know, you can.

Michael Kaye: 7:04

The other two wines, the other two cups, so to speak, um are, uh, really, um. Well, to me feels best suited to a sweet or a semi-sweet or an ice wine or dessert wine, something that's again got a good strong alcohol. I don't mean like a sweet, like a Rashi Light or something. I mean like we have a Gewurztraminer. It's 14%. I have a semi-dry version of it that is 16%, but the 14% is quite sweet and again, you're going to get a nice buzz, but it's going to be a treat, it's going to be like a dessert, it's going to be yummy and it's going to be good. And if you've got a well-made sweet wine I don't mean a heavy cloying thing like a Manischewitz, but like a well-made sweet wine it's a nice way to finish.

Michael Kaye: 8:17

But coming back to cup number three. That's kind of a grab bag, you know. So, like I said, start out with a big, heavy red. Second, one's going to be like a light red, like a Pinot or like the dry Muscat, like I mentioned, you know something interesting a floral, but that's not going to weigh you down. And then the third one. I sort of feel like that, in a way, is like another special moment where it's like you're, you can create a special space for this one, because it's like in the middle of it all.

S Simon Jacob: 9:06

Right and you've had food. What's that? You've had food.

Michael Kaye: 9:13

You've had food so that you can handle more. Also, it gives you a little bit of a another little bit of excitement to. You know, wake you up, you know like, oh, I've got this cool thing coming, so maybe you're going to do something that is, I would say, unusual. That's what I'm thinking. Okay, so what would you suggest.

Michael Kaye: 9:40

I've got, example, a four gates Cabernet Sauvignon from 2014 that Benyo gave me. That I really hope to use for like the third cup, you know, because it's interesting, it's exciting, it brings out something new to people. What I might do is, as I mentioned earlier, you know, I have this off-dry, dry Gewurztraminer that's 16% alcohol. It's an unusual white wine. It's like a big white that's not buttery, like a Chardonnay or anything, and it's it's full of flavor, it's it's full of aroma and uh, and it'll get you a little shicker again to sort of carry you for that last to that last thing.

Michael Kaye: 10:40

Yeah, so that's how I roll Big red, and then second one, light red or white Third one, something like that's really interesting and kind of different, and then the fourth is dessert.

S Simon Jacob: 10:53

Excellent. Any special customs that you have at the Seder?

Michael Kaye: 10:57

One special custom? Yes, I can, okay, cool, so my father introduced a minhag many years ago.

S Simon Jacob: 11:20

Okay cool, sounds like a wave sort of mood yes, right yeah, right so.

Michael Kaye: 11:25

So like the wave, which is first of all like a, a hint towards the parting of the sea, right, very quick. But also you're sitting there for a long time. You kind of got to get people moving. So for dianu, yeah, when, when we do the chorus Dayenu, we go around the table in a wave.

S Simon Jacob: 11:49

Very cool, I love it. Yeah, I absolutely love it, michael.

Ari Lockspeiser: 11:54

Thank you, Thank you, thank you thank you my pleasure.

S Simon Jacob: 11:58

All right, my pleasure. Chag Sameach. Chag Sameach. Be good. Shalom Ubrecha. Welcome Amichai Luria from Shiloh Winery.

AmiChai Lourie: 12:09

So first of all, I make sure that I'm hydrated.

S Simon Jacob: 12:14

Cool.

AmiChai Lourie: 12:14

That means before I even drink wine, I make sure that I drink a lot of water or seltzer, because I like to somehow get through the Seder and since I'm on an empty stomach usually, then I prefer to make sure that I'm hydrated. That's number one. Number two usually my strategy is that it's a very good opportunity to drink older wines that I have in my cellar. Cool, I'll pick wines that are at least five years old and more, because, first of all, I want to enjoy the wine more on Lelaseda and also because usually wines that were aged are easier to drink with nothing on the side, when you don't have any food next to it. Then I do that. And I'll tell you something even more uncommon a lot of people will drink four different wines for Le La Seda. Yep, I usually pick a wine and drink only that wine for all four Kosot. For a couple of reasons. First of all, that way I don't have to finish the glass completely and I only have to add on to it. It makes it a little bit more easier and convenient.

S Simon Jacob: 13:48

So you're not doing any blending.

AmiChai Lourie: 13:49

Second of all, I'm not blending, I'm not pouring out the rest. I finished my revit. I drank what I had to drink.

S Simon Jacob: 13:57

Good.

AmiChai Lourie: 13:59

And all I have to do is just refill the glass. All I have to do is just refill the glass. Second of all, it's nice to see how a wine develops through such a long dinner, because let us say that it's probably the longest dinner you ever have. So you see how the wine started and then, hours later, how the wine turns out to be Very cool, and so I'll pick one wine and drink it throughout the Seder. That said, the meal of L'Ela Seder, which is also one of the I don't want to say most important, but it's the funnest meal of the year. Okay, yep, funnest meal of the year. Okay, yep, it's the meal that we have on Lelaseda, family friends, khairut.

AmiChai Lourie: 14:56

Usually, times like now, it's difficult to forget our troubles in our life, but usually we're focused so much on other things that it's easier to forget the difficult parts in our life. So it's a very extra enjoyable and important meal of the year, and so what I do is I'll have one wine that takes me through all of the Seder, and at the meal itself, we'll open up a lot of different wines and we'll taste a lot of different wines. And you'll see, in our house, sometimes in front of each person, there'll be three, four or five different glasses. Sometimes, in front of each person, there'll be three, four or five different glasses. We're tasting and drinking and enjoying ourselves through the meal and always getting back to that same glass of wine that we started at the beginning of the sedna and took us through all the way to the end of the sedna.

S Simon Jacob: 16:00

Very, very interesting, Amichai. I've never heard that sort of practice before. It's super.

AmiChai Lourie: 16:13

Any suggestions you would make for that bottle of wine or for other wines to share. So I was just a couple of I don't know a month, a month and a half ago, I was in the States and we tasted it was a good friend of mine's at his house for Shabbos and he brought out two of the wines from the Heroes Edition that we made Wow In 2014, the year before Shemitah, so we're talking about a 10-year-old wine and it was like really amazing and I said to myself you know what? This is going to be the wine that I'm going to drink for L'Essad. And when I got home back to Israel, I checked my cellar to see if I have any of those wines left. I thought I did and unfortunately I don't.

S Simon Jacob: 17:01

Oh, boy so.

AmiChai Lourie: 17:01

I was planning to drink the Hero's Edition for L'Easeda and that's not going to happen. I do have. My son is supposed to check out our cellar and pick one of the old vintages that I have in my cellar in the house and we're going to see what we have enough of. He says I really don't know what happens in my wine room in the house. He knows better than I do. I mean, he's married with a son and left the house years ago but still he knows his way around my wine room better than I do, is way around my wine room better than I do. And he says that we have and we actually tasted this. I think it was for Rosh Hashanah. We had a 2006 wine, the mosaic that we did in 2006. He says that we think we have a couple of bottles of that, so maybe we'll do it with that, but we're not sure. I really don't know. You know we just had I just did a big wine event here in Israel in a really really nice restaurant called Sfera and the guy brought in for the wine tasting.

AmiChai Lourie: 18:23

We tasted the Cabernet Secret Reserve 2021 that we just released. It seems like it's the best Cab Secret Reserve I ever made and he brought a double magnum of the Cab Secret Reserve 2014, which was the highlight of the event and of the evening we had there the exclusive edition mosaic. The mosaic gets so many different wines at this event and the Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve 2014 was really the highlight of the event. We're talking about a 10-year-old wine. That was totally amazing. Still had a lot of years yet into it, so there's a good chance they're going to open up a big bottle from the Capseeker Reserve either 2013 or 14, because I have both of them and probably we'll do that. That's what it looks like at the moment.

S Simon Jacob: 19:20

I would normally ask you about the second Seder, whether you'd do things differently, and probably your answer to me would be move to Eretz Yisrael.

AmiChai Lourie: 19:30

I'll say even more than that. There's still time. I mean, you can still buy a ticket. Come to Eretz Yisrael and do only one seder right.

S Simon Jacob: 19:40

Yep, yep, it's unbelievable to be here, yep, it's unbelievable to be here On Chol.

AmiChai Lourie: 19:45

Amoyed, you can make up for the wine that you usually drink on the left.

S Simon Jacob: 19:51

Just drink that much more on Chol Amoyed. Okay, the last one is can you share one really special or interesting custom that you either do at your Seder or that you've experienced at a Seder hosted by somebody else? Do?

AmiChai Lourie: 20:04

you have any special customs. I'm married for over 30 years and I think only twice I was in home for let us Seder, okay, so we usually host it In our family. We have a funny thing that has been going on for I don't know how many years, probably generations. In the Haggadah it says Matzah zu sha'anu ochlim al shuma, right Yep. That means this matzah that we eat. Why do we eat matzah, right Yep? So you can also read that same sentence in a different way. You can say it like this Matzah zu shan uchlim al shum, that means the matzah that we eat on garlic. And then everybody says ma. And then you continue to say al shum. That means matzah, this matzo, the we eat on garlic. And everyone says what? Yes, on garlic. And that's exactly the same words. I didn't change anything in the Haggadah. All I did is put a question mark and a pause in different parts of the thing. And then, yes, in our family we have a lot of garlic all year round, and on Pesach even more than that.

S Simon Jacob: 21:32

Since I've been at your table, I can absolutely understand that and it must be amazing. It must be absolutely amazing, amichai. I know you're a busy person, especially pre-Pesach, and I really thank you for taking the time to do this. Thank you, hello. Hi, penina, it's Simon, so I have here on the line Penina Kasanowicz, a good friend and an incredible winemaker. So I have four questions for Pesach that I'd like to bounce off of you and that I've been bouncing off of everybody.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 22:06

All right, it's Pesach after all.

S Simon Jacob: 22:07

Yes, right. Do you have a go-to strategy for handling the four cups at your Seder?

Penina Kustanowitz: 22:14

So much like our more formal wine pairing dinners that we've shared over the years. I like to start with a sparkling wine, something to open the appetite, something that is very festive A lot of people have a very strong mingha that the first glass should be a red wine and if you do choose to go that way, I would recommend a light red, something like a Pinot or a Grenache. For the second glass, I like a very big, heavy red, something that's going to open in the glass, something that we know we're going to drink together with our meal, something that's going to open up in the glass throughout Magid as we share words of Torah and take our time. And for the third cup, which is essentially dessert, I like a good dessert wine, something sweet.

S Simon Jacob: 23:19

And then for the last cup.

Penina Kustanowitz: 23:21

this is really what people enjoy drinking their favorite wine of the evening. Or I like to go back to sparkling again because it's a nice bookend. It's a nice way to end the meal. It's light, it's usually a lower alcohol.

S Simon Jacob: 23:40

Do you have any suggestions as to wines that you would fit into those slots?

Penina Kustanowitz: 23:46

Yes.

S Simon Jacob: 23:46

I do.

Penina Kustanowitz: 23:48

So for the sparkling wine, I really like the Gamla Brut and the LV Kava If you can get it. It's not really available here in Israel and I recently had the Raziel sparkling, which I can also recommend was absolutely delicious. For the Big Red, I really like the Clos Masora or the Psa Gut Peak, because that's something that you really need to take your time with and even decant before the meal so it can handle being out and open in your glass for all of maggid. And for the dessert wine, I am incredibly partial to the yakov oria old musketeer, but I also really like the ore by yakiv sora and remind me what the dessert wine is called from Wittgen.

S Simon Jacob: 24:44

The Scharschimp, the sweet Scharschimp, yep.

Penina Kustanowitz: 24:48

Huge fan of that one and, like I said, I like to end with a sparkling that I began with, or a different sparkling, okay. Or a nice gentle white wine like the Upstream Chardonnay Love it. Like the Upstream Chardonnay Love it. Or like the Jaco Aurea Playground. Or the Tavor Chenin Blanc.

S Simon Jacob: 25:13

Cool Okay.

Penina Kustanowitz: 25:14

And if you're a rosé fan, this is also a nice time to just sit and unwind with a glass of rosé.

S Simon Jacob: 25:24

Okay. So the last question I have for you is can you share one really special or interesting custom that either you do in the family or that you have experienced, that hosted Seder?

Penina Kustanowitz: 25:37

At our Seder there is a stack of backpacks and walking sticks by the front door, and when we get to the part where everybody has to see themselves as though they themselves were redeemed from Egypt, my husband Jack, who leads the Seder, gets everybody up and everybody chooses a bag and a walking stick and they leave the house, they go down the stairs, they do a little hakafa in the yard and up they come back.

S Simon Jacob: 26:13

Wow, I love it so cool.

Penina Kustanowitz: 26:17

And, yeah, it lets you stretch your legs and it gives the kids who might be fidgeting something to do.

S Simon Jacob: 26:23

But also ask questions. It's great. I love it. It's a great idea, it's a great custom, super Thank you. Penina, I know. Thank you very much for taking time. What I was going to say is I know that this is a really busy time of the year, so thank you very much for taking the time.

Penina Kustanowitz: 26:43

It is my pleasure. Thank you for calling me.

S Simon Jacob: 26:46

Pleasure Todah, todah, todah, thank you.

Penina Kustanowitz: 26:49

Chag Sameach.

S Simon Jacob: 26:50

Chag Sameach. Chag Keshav HaSameach. Welcome, auntie Sinton. Thank you very much for agreeing to join me. I have four questions for you After all it is Pesach.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 27:03

You know, it is Pesach coming up, so I have four questions, All right.

S Simon Jacob: 27:08

The first of those questions is do you have a go-to strategy for handling the four cups at your Seder?

Andy Sinton: 27:19

I definitely have a strategy. I'm standing up on my chair to answer the four questions here. Great, I'm standing up on my chair to answer the four questions here, great, yeah. So listen, my general strategy for the four questions for the four cups is informed by, I think, a Seder experience I had about 22 years ago in Berkeley about what not to do during the four cups. So you know, I was in Berkeley and my, my, my fiance at the time and my future in-laws were there, and it was Berkeley. So what we had was I had like large 12 ounce, 16 ounce cups.

Andy Sinton: 27:54

I remember when we drank four gates right, that's what we drank at our Seder Cause back then. That was, you know, the local winery and you do not want to drink four cups of dry, high alcohol wine using a large glass. So I try to do everything that's the opposite of that. My general strategy is I go for. I want my wines to be easy to drink and I want to enjoy drinking a whole glass in one go. So that's like my line, and then I have a few other criteria that I put around it as well.

S Simon Jacob: 28:25

Anything different on either one, on either of the cups.

Andy Sinton: 28:31

So my general strategy for the first two for sure, I want to make sure that I'm sober for leading the Seder and I usually go for an Israeli red non-mavutial, enjoyable to chug, low alcohol wine, which generally means some type of red Moscato. It's very hard to find a non-mavushal one these days.

Andy Sinton: 28:52

The only one I know of is Tabor, and you could take like a Germon Moscato and add a little bit of red wine to it. You could do that, but no. First two cups for sure. I do low alcohol, something like that 5%, that I can lean back and enjoy chugging, and then I have a nice wine for Shulchan Orech and then for the third and fourth cup it really depends how I'm feeling. Depending on how much I've had. For Shulchan Orech I might go with a drier wine, but for the most part I will drink something like a Moscato for all four cups. That is my default strategy.

S Simon Jacob: 29:28

Okay, I have one last question. Can you share with us a special or interesting custom that you either do at your Seder or that you've experienced at a Seder hosted by somebody else?

Andy Sinton: 29:41

So, my co-sale, I really have to send you a picture for it. I had a friend who was in the stone business near Severon and I really wanted a stone, a nice stone Kiddush cup. So I printed out on a regular eight and a half by 11 piece of paper like the shape of a Kiddush cup that I wanted and gave it to him and said can you, you know, get this made for me. And he a week later comes back to me with a Jerusalem stone cup that is literally 11 inches tall. I mean, this thing it requires two hands to lift because he gave it to the Arab guy who was working at the stone foundry and said, hey, can you make this?

Andy Sinton: 30:17

And he made it the size of the whole piece of paper. He didn't understand. It was supposed to be something that you could hold in your hand. So I'd say that's the most unique custom that we have at our Seder is we have this Jerusalem stone, kos Eliyahu, that can hold almost exactly this is really a siyata bishma exactly 750 milliliters, pretty much, so I can pour a whole bottle in there and wait for Eliyahu to show up at the door. Andy, thank you very, very much.

S Simon Jacob: 30:43

I know it's a busy time. Thank you for making the time for me. Good morning, a soft pause. Do you have a special strategy for handling the four cups at the Seder? The four cups?

Assaf Paz: 30:58

is something that you pour for everybody okay.

S Simon Jacob: 31:01

Right.

Assaf Paz: 31:01

So you need to please everybody with their different flavors and and taste. And from the other side, uh, sometimes it's not. Uh, it's not necessary to pour, to pour the more, the most expensive wine to 20 different people when only four of them will enjoy it. The other won't drink it or you know worse than that. So this is the first rule See, know who is drinking and fit the wine to the taste of the majority.

S Simon Jacob: 31:38

Okay, Got it.

Assaf Paz: 31:40

This is very important. So because in my family we drink the four cups, but after when Shulchan Aruch, shulchan Oech, we pour more different wines that we want to spoil ourselves.

S Simon Jacob: 31:57

For the meal, for the meal you drink them.

Assaf Paz: 32:00

Yeah, so over there we can invest in, like the specific wines that are interesting to the different drinkers. We start either with the Single Vineyard Rieslingo, vipkin, or the Reige Wurz, or even the Grenache Blanc, the collector's edition. That's for the third cup. No, this is the first cup. The second cup is the Pink Israeli Journey. For me, Okay. The third cup is the Witkin Pinot Noir or Witkin Grenache. Noir because I want like a complex and delicious but not heavy red wine.

S Simon Jacob: 32:40

Got it and the fourth cup.

Assaf Paz: 32:42

Over there, I can invest in something a little bit more deep, complex and powerful, like our Old Vine Carignan or Single Vineyard Cap Franc or even the Old Vine, petit Syrah.

Assaf Paz: 32:56

But it's extremely important to see that the majority of the people will really enjoy those wines. If you have, like, a majority of aunts and grandmothers and people that are not used to drink very heavy red wines, I'm not going to pour the Petit Syrah. Maybe I'll use the Pinot Noir and then the Grenache Noir or even the Red Israeli Journey so they can enjoy those wines. This is extremely important. Sometimes we choose the most expensive wines and we forgot that wine is meant to bring joy. It's meant to make you happy, to be delicious. So this is very important.

S Simon Jacob: 33:38

I wanted to ask you if there are any specific customs or special things that you do or that your family does at the Seder.

Assaf Paz: 33:46

We're melting pots. So when my father-in-law is making the ceremony, it's Calcutta style, okay. And when it's with my brother, so it's the father of my sister-in-law, so it's a Yemeni style. And when my father used to be the manager of the Seder, it was Ashkenaz style Romanian. So you know it was Ashkenaz style Romanian. So you know.

S Simon Jacob: 34:26

Hazzak Baruch, it was beautiful. Okay, shalom and Barakah, I'll let you get back to your life, okay, it's always a pleasure to talk to you.

Assaf Paz: 34:36

It's part of my life.

S Simon Jacob: 34:38

You're part of my life, so it's okay, thank you. Thank you, tadah tadah.

Andrew David Krausz: 34:46

Good afternoon, andrew Krause. So I would say that there isn't one strategy. Each year feels a bit different and this year it feels to me that it should be really all about who has produced the wine. And you know, here we are on the other side of the year to uh, young, and it's a great moment to take stock of you know, the journey. This is all about journey and where we're up to and where we're going.

Andrew David Krausz: 35:14

And what I'm going for this year is really who has produced the wine. And you know how do they inspire me in terms of where I want to go from here to the end of the year. So my selections on the producers are based around, really, that question of who has inspired me for one reason or another. Cool, so it's got very little to do with the technical side of the winemaking. All I would say for Pesach for me a very personal thing that it should be from Israel. So that's where I go to in terms of country, but in terms of producer, two producers that I'm going for this year. One is Yaakov Oria and the other one is Kishor.

S Simon Jacob: 36:06

Okay, very cool, very cool. Both of them are wonderful. I love Yaakov. I absolutely adore Yaakov.

Andrew David Krausz: 36:16

You know it's as a person, you know his humility, his generosity and his generosity and his honesty and sincerity, as well as his technical genius facets, that you know, when I drink my cup of cups of wine, that this is what I want to have front and center, that these were made by someone of these qualities.

S Simon Jacob: 36:56

Is there anything different for you between the first Seder and the second Seder? Any shift?

Andrew David Krausz: 37:03

Yeah, well, the first one. Typically I go to my brother-in-law's Okay, and my brother-in-law is Persian, so it's a very, very different thing to go to a Persian Seder to having my Ashken Seder on night two, to having my Ashkim Seder on night two. In terms of the wines, I will take a bottle to the first. For the second, I will have a selection of my own, but it's a very different thing being beaten with spring onions on night one to maybe a karma kind of backdrop on night two. But there's a serious side to it too, which is that I like the idea of a combination of Ashkenazi and Sephardi custom. It's all about we're different but we're the same, and that's the way I like to start my journey on night one and night two it's to pay homage to my family heritage, which is Hungarian.

S Simon Jacob: 38:22

Very, very cool. Is there any specific custom or special interesting uh practice that you do at your satyrs?

Andrew David Krausz: 38:32

uh, night two to me is is what's normal? So is it special and different, probably to anyone else? Um, I don't know it. It's more profound. I on night one, when it's really very different. But you know, on a simple level, night one is a combination of Farsi, hebrew and English and a lot of noise, and night two is a combination of English and Hungarian and Hebrew, probably in reverse order. So that's you. That's an obvious difference.

S Simon Jacob: 39:11

There are actually parts of the Seder that you do in Hungarian.

Andrew David Krausz: 39:15

Yes.

S Simon Jacob: 39:16

Wow.

Andrew David Krausz: 39:17

For me, seder is very much about including everyone at the table on the journey. Not Dufka doing a language, because that's what's been done previously, but to make sure that everyone has their part in that journey. It's all about journey, and at my table I have my grandmother, who lives with us, who's in her 101st year.

Andrew David Krausz: 39:43

She doesn't speak any English. She speaks Hungarian and German first year and she doesn't speak any english. She speaks hungarian and german. So, uh, to include her. Uh, and in fact, another guest, you know, is a bergen-belsen survivor who speaks english, hungarian, but very little hebrew. Um, so you know, they should all have their active role to play in in the, uh, the seder. They shouldn't sit there, uh, you know, uninformed and uninvolved, otherwise they're not part of that journey why kishore go ahead.

S Simon Jacob: 40:16

That's a good question the two these are.

Andrew David Krausz: 40:18

These are two that are special to me this year. You know, yakov, I've talked about yep uh k Kishore is one of the wineries I visited not so long ago and you know I was moved by the people who work there and who are involved in the wine production and the you know sincerity, the excitement, the you know purity of some of the special needs people, members of that community, that are involved in producing. You know what is a very good wine? Um, and I want to celebrate that too as part of my journey this year. We're blessed to have many opportunities to, to contribute to many worthwhile causes, and when we go to these causes, you you know it moves us in different ways, but this was one that moved me on the one hand, but I also tremendously enjoyed.

S Simon Jacob: 41:12

So hug Pesach, Hashem and Samael.

Andrew David Krausz: 41:16

And to you and to your family.

S Simon Jacob: 41:18

Thank you, shalom u'bracha, thank you. Thank you, andrew.

Richard Davidoff: 41:25

Hi Simon, how are you?

S Simon Jacob: 41:27

Good afternoon, Richard Davidoff being Pesach. I have four questions. Okay, Four quick questions. Go for it All right. Do you have a special strategy as far as handling the four cups at the Seder?

Richard Davidoff: 41:41

So I'll tell you what I do For the first cup. Well, let's start from the beginning. I understand that there's a minhag to enjoy red wine specifically at the Seder, as opposed to white wine to correlate to the blood. I stick to that for the first three out of four cups. So for the first one, I like to kick off with a champagne. So I'll go with a rosé and I this year will be doing the Baron de Ross shelf, which I thought was quite nice, and I think it kicks off the evening with a bit of a bang, with a bit of fizz. It's nice.

Richard Davidoff: 42:36

For the second cup, I like something a little bit lighter. So going with a Pinot. So going with a pinot. For the third cup, we're ready just into the meal, or beginning just before the meal, and the leftovers will go into the meal. So going a little bit heavier with an aged Bordeaux. I've actually got I think it's my last, or my second last Leoville 2000. I think it's a fitting time to enjoy it. And then, for the last cup, I'm going with something sweet. So I'm going with Yakov Aureas, either the V or the G.

Richard Davidoff: 43:24

I have another question for you, any difference between the first night and the second night? Very good question. So the first night I typically do a more robust lineup. The second night I will typically do lighter wines. So, for example, with a third cup I'm not going to be doing a Bordeaux, I'm sticking with Pinot as well, and I've got. For the first night I've got the 15, the Chantal Esker 15. For the second night I'm doing 16 and 17. So it won't quite be a vertical side by side or three, but I'll be doing the 15 on night one and the 16 and 17 on night two.

S Simon Jacob: 44:24

Okay, so I have one last question for you. Do you have any interesting customs that you do in your family?

Richard Davidoff: 44:31

I would say we just do traditional, normal, traditional Seder and enjoy.

S Simon Jacob: 44:37

Okay. Well, that's my four questions and I really, really thank you for taking the time to answer. Good afternoon, jay Buxbaum. It's almost Pesach, so I have four questions, right? Do you have a Pesach strategy for the four kosot, for the four cups?

Jay Buchsbaum: 44:55

I do. I always start with a lighter one, usually these days, the last couple of years, a rosé. Yep, I'm going to go through the strategy quickly and then I'll tell you if you have other specifically. And then I go with the richest red, and it's funny that you would think that as normal thing, wine people go from the lightest to the last, one being the heaviest, even a sweet wine, let's say. But in this case, because the second cup goes into the meal, I like to go to the richest red so that I can continue with that red into the meal. And then I go to a lighter, and this is the general rule. Then I go to a lighter red, like a Pinot Noir and depending on the Chianti, let's say a Chianti, again depending on it, because Chianti can be in a wide range of heaviness and flavors and then often I will end with a sweet wine, just to kind of it's my own, like little New Year's, even though I know it's not New Year's, but you know, and the Seder on a sweet note, cool.

S Simon Jacob: 46:11

Okay, what about for the meal? Do you end up having bottles for the meal?

Jay Buchsbaum: 46:19

Yes, so so the first glass for the meal is usually that, like I said, the second wine that I used for the Seder, and you know I continue with that for a little bit and then kids go down to the cellar and get whatever you want. That's my rule for the meal wines.

S Simon Jacob: 46:43

Is there a difference between your first Seder and your second?

Jay Buchsbaum: 46:48

Not in terms of the stylistically, definitely in terms of the wines, okay, but stylistically I keep it the same. So I definitely do not have I mean definitely. You know, as a rule I don't have the same wines, not the first, not the second, not the same wines, not the first, not the second, not the third, not the fourth.

S Simon Jacob: 47:09

But I do keep it stylistically the same any suggestions for what you drink at those four cups you'd like to make?

Jay Buchsbaum: 47:18

yes, go ahead. Yes, so I always, I always, especially this year, but I do it anyway. I always include, you know, one Israeli wine for sure. Okay, this year I believe I'm going to use the Israeli one for sure for the second cup. Okay, and it might be something classically Israeli, like an aged Argaman.

S Simon Jacob: 47:44

Cool.

Jay Buchsbaum: 47:48

Which would be really cool because that's exclusively Israeli wine. And the first cup I really enjoy, the Herzog. So the Argaman could come from Jezreel, for example, but the first choice and there's also an Argaman, I believe, from 1848, but the first choice and there's also an Argoman, I believe, from 1848. But the first choice. And the rosé it's not an expensive wine but it's really quite good and that is the Herzog Lineage Rosé, which has been 100% Pinot Noir and so you know it really is light and fresh and some fruit, and on an empty stomach you know it really is quite nice. And then, for the third cup, I'm thinking this year to have something from Burgundy, like a hardy wine, H-A-R-D-I which is also Pinot Noir.

Jay Buchsbaum: 48:49

Maybe there's some really wonderful whites this year. There's a Grand Cru Chablis that I might incorporate for that third cup, and maybe I'll pull out an old Sauternes from either the 90s or the early 2000s, because as Sauternes age, they become oh gosh, they become more complex and they become a little bit golden and they become more aromatic and they become more luscious. Some wonderful stuff.

Jay Buchsbaum: 49:31

So that's, your fourth cup and there's also yeah, that's my fourth cup and, to mix it up, maybe the next night I'll have the late harvest from Sagot, or there's very few of these around, but or Elie, ben Zakeh and Benelay Harvest Wine. Right, that's only a few, not commercially available, but you know it was available. We got one.

S Simon Jacob: 49:57

It was available at the winery the M.

Jay Buchsbaum: 50:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got a few bottles. I think I have a few bottles of those. I might double up on Israeli wines the second night. The second night I might do something like a really wonderful new winery, cantina Giuliano, from Italy, the only 100% Shomer Shabbos that I know. Of the only 100% Shomer Shabbos run, owned and operated winery in Italy, I believe there might be one other, but I think this is either the only one or one of only two, and his Mano wine is a blockbuster which one?

Jay Buchsbaum: 50:46

Just a real blockbuster, mano. It's called M-A-N-O. Gentina Giuliani, mano, mano.

S Simon Jacob: 50:54

Any customs that you follow at the table that are interesting, or any you know like special, different things you do at the Seder.

Jay Buchsbaum: 51:10

It's great that you asked that question because I want so much to share it with people. What I love to do and I mention this because we also met a wide variety of people over the years and what I love to do is share with them our Yiddish songs that we sing at the Seder. So we sing a song called Mu'assafra, which is about who is one, and then someone told us who is one in English. So our customs, more than the traditional customs, which are not unlike the traditional customs, our special contribution, if you will, are those very unusual but wonderful Yiddish and English versions of various songs in the Haggadah. You know, years later I had somebody call me, actually someone sent us a letter that they never this is somebody. I didn't even know who they were.

Jay Buchsbaum: 52:11

They were sitting at the next table at Moshe Weed's program. This was in San Diego no, not San Diego, it was in California, anyway and he said, said you know, this was our first religious Seder that we went to, the one that you were at, jay. 15 years later, you wrote me, writes this note and he said I want you to know it inspired us to become observant all the time and since that day. We've always been observant and in part I mean I can't take credit because I'm sure it was a much bigger journey than just listening to our Yiddish Moa Sapra. But you know, it's just nice to know that we are so happy with it and that's conveyed. We're so, you know, we have such a good time with it and apparently that's conveyed.

S Simon Jacob: 53:05

Thank you. Thank you, jay, I know it's a busy time of the year. You're welcome, all right, take care. Shalom u'bracha. Thank you.

Penina Kustanowitz: 53:12

Bye-bye.

S Simon Jacob: 53:13

Hi, hi, shalom u'bracha, nathan, it's a pleasure to speak to you.

Nathan Grandjean: 53:20

My pleasure too.

S Simon Jacob: 53:21

So I have. It's almost Pesach. So I have four questions, Okay. Okay, the first one is do you have, uh, do you have a, um, a plan for how you deal with the four cups?

Nathan Grandjean: 53:40

The first thing to know is, uh, that for the cidereder, like all the year about wine, the more important thing is to like the wine we have to drink. It's freedom. You're free, you have to drink what is good for you, and that's the first thing. But it depends on how you spend the time of the seder, how long you stay on the table, how long you are making the agode. For me, I'm beginning very late to eat. I'm beginning very late to eat, so it's very important to have a light wine to begin, because after a long day to prepare the Yom Tov and the Agode, after that you don't have, it could be very hard to drink powerful wine and high alcohol wine.

Nathan Grandjean: 54:55

It could be complicated in the mouth and, if possible, with low alcohol, usually beginning with rosé, like Provence rosé, or maybe maybe light wine, like Light Syrah from the Rhone Valley or Cabernet Franc from the Loire. Not, I don't have in mind A light Syrah from the Rhone Valley or Cabernet Franc from the Loire. I don't have in mind a Cabernet Franc or Syrah that we can find in California or in Israel. That could be very heavy. We are talking about light wines, of course, not Bordeaux in the style and for the two first cups. I think it's the best way to begin. After that for the meal, for the third and the fourth cup, it's more up to you. Depends on what you are eating, what time is it and whether you're still very powerful by yourself. But it's more up to you, I think.

S Simon Jacob: 56:23

Is it the same for the first and the second seder?

Nathan Grandjean: 56:31

Yes, in fact for me it's the same thing, the same problem, just in the second day. We eat a lot at noon, so it's a little bit less important. But for me to be light and easy all the way of the Hagoda, I need a light wine too. It's very important for me. For the rosé, I don't have any name. It could be anything, depends on the price you can put. For me, rosé is always something near wines. It's not really wines, but it makes a job for the kiddush, for example. But I don't think you have to put a lot of money, but it's not a big difference. For me it's always something light and fruity.

Nathan Grandjean: 57:39

light, but nothing, so there is no difference, no real difference it must be good, but not a very good something, doesn't matter which one for the Kiddush. For the second one, one more time I will, I think, but I don't know exactly what. I'm living in France, so I know more. What is viable in France, okay, so I would go on. I think it's a very good idea, maybe a light Syrah or something like that. Ok, there's a lot. I don't know exactly what you can find in USA for the third cup, you'd go for a Bordeaux.

S Simon Jacob: 58:45

Would you go for something that's heavier? No, for me it's go for a Bordeaux. Would you go for something that's heavier?

Nathan Grandjean: 58:47

No, for me it's too heavy a Bordeaux. I don't appreciate Bordeaux. We are tired after a big meal. After the Bordeaux I have to finish the Hallel and finish the Cedar, so I don't it's too much. Maybe for the fourth it could be, but it's not. I don't feel happy with Bordeaux to drink in my cup for the fourth too. So all the way I need something lighter than Bordeaux. I think it's not a kiff. It's not a kiff to drink a heavy Bordeaux.

S Simon Jacob: 59:36

Okay.

Nathan Grandjean: 59:37

I have one last question For the afternoon meal of the October. It's a good wine.

S Simon Jacob: 59:44

Okay, it's a good wine for then, where you can appreciate it over time and that's where you're focused on rather than having to worry about the Seder. I get it.

Gabriel Geller: 59:53

I have it, I understand what about?

S Simon Jacob: 59:56

what about customs? Do you have any like specific or interesting customs?

Nathan Grandjean: 1:00:02

not customs, not really personal. Minhag, it's very interesting for me meaning to talk about freedom and kheros. The right way is to begin to discuss with your son. It's not a. I think it's a real way to to discuss with your son. It's not a. I think it's a real way to make it happen, to be Ben-Horin. It's to talk about the importance of the Torah and Yitzhak Mitzrayim and all those things. It's to talk with your children about that. That is the right way. It's not two different things. I have to talk about freedom and if I have to talk to someone, it could be my son. No, to talk to your children. It's a real way of of, and, and I think it's a real way of Chaim Chelle-Cherus, and I think there is a long, many, many ways to understand that and making that happen, but I think it's very important. I think it's very important. So I'm teaching to my children to appreciate wines too, but it's just one point about a big relationship between father and son.

S Simon Jacob: 1:01:44

Excellent, I love it. Thank you, I really do I?

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:01:48

thank you very much.

S Simon Jacob: 1:01:50

I know everybody is pressured, but also congratulations. It's your daughter who got engaged, mazaltov. Yes, mazaltov, thank you. Okay, be well, todah. Thank you for taking time with me. Shalom ura Chag sameach.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:02:11

What's up, Rob Simon?

S Simon Jacob: 1:02:12

Hello, dr Medeb. So you're up for four questions. All right, sure. So the first one is do you have a strategy for the four cups that you do at your seder? Do you start light? Do you start with heavy? Do you, you know? Do you have a strategy as to how to go through the four cups?

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:02:35

Sure, absolutely Okay. I, I, um. What I do is you have to understand. Uh, you know, I'll tell you what my issue is. Go ahead.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:02:47

In the past I used to go for the biggest wines and I would be irritated the whole set there. So what I do, based on experience, what I do is I start with a rosé. I believe that rosé is a red wine. Especially people who are in the winemaking business, you realize that we're bleeding the skins, there's maceration time and we really make it like a red wine. Especially the French and most of the Italian rosés are made the same way that you make a red wine. So I start with a rosé and I think the biggest issue we have is that you have to drink four cups, but when you're gulping wine down, you don't enjoy it.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:03:32

So to make it enjoyable, I use rosé for my first glass, because this way you're on an empty stomach. People don't like to eat in the afternoon, so they have hunger for the matzah. So I start with the rosé. It's light alcohol. I think it's lightly acidic, you're not going to be suffering afterwards, and then you have to read the entire Haggadah. For the second glass, I use a Pinot Noir. Same reason. Okay, because you're going to start eating.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:04:04

I feel like if you use a Pinot it's a lighter, lighter alcohol, especially French Burgundy, okay, so you're not getting a heavy. You can get a beautiful wine, earthy, a little bit if it's from France. California Pinots might be a little bit heavier if people want a bolder wine. But what I do is Rosé Pinot Noir every year, the third glass, and then I would put uh au bordeaux and I tried to do an aged bordeaux, my, my, uh. My wine of choice usually is valentro 05 and some years. Depending on how many people we have at the table, I'll use it for the third and the fourth and some years I'll use that and I use um, a newer french wine for the fourth class, because you know at that point you're not worried about anything as much. Right, and I'll use uh bordeaux either. Le fan rocher was one of my favorites. I stay away from cedar for the entire seder because of the heavy nature, the grape acidity on it and things of that nature.

S Simon Jacob: 1:05:06

Okay, so let me ask you another question. This is question number two. Is there a difference between the first and the second Seder for you?

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:05:16

No, okay, for me it's not. I do the same thing, I just try to switch. If I use a French rosé for the first night, I'll use an Italian rosé for the second night. I use a set. I'll use an Italian rosé for the second night. I use two different types of Burgundies. So, for example, I'll use usually De Montiel first night, then I'll use Agerterre for the second night. If you look at my portfolio Right, and I'll mix it up, I'll mix it up. Usually I use totally different wines, so I'm bringing eight bottles. Even when I go away, even if I did the alcohol on the program, I will bring eight of my own bottles to do that. The only ones that I might repeat is the Valo 5, which is what I drink now.

S Simon Jacob: 1:06:00

That's an unbelievable bottle.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:06:03

Yeah.

S Simon Jacob: 1:06:03

It's a great bottle, okay, so let me ask you another question Can you make a suggestion for each of those cups? You made some suggestions, but yeah.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:06:14

So what I use, I'll tell you. I'll tell you for the rosés, the two that I've picked for this year, I use Fantastique. If you see in our, in our chat you're in my chat, my wine chat the fantastique every year gets best rosé of the year. I think it's worth the extra money because it's Pesach. I think for Pesach you have to spend you're asking Hashem for stuff. You want to show your freedom, you want to show what we've done. You want to spoil yourself. You know even the Midrash says you have to take all the gold out, all yourself. You know even the midrash says you have to take all the gold out, all your gold. You should put on the table the mikubalim. You know, uh, put out everything they have in gold because they, uh, and the moroccans are very big in it. When they dress the table they make sure it's gold, it's yellow, because they want to show that, uh, it's a pesach. So I use fantastic, usually the first night. Uh, last year I used my pascayaé. For the second night, this year I'm using Vizione, which is the Faudi San Gregorio Alianico Rosé. I think it's beautiful. It's actually weighted. On your tongue it drinks more like a white wine than a rosé. It comes in a beautiful Lalique bottle. I can take a picture and send it to you. You'll see them, and so I'm using those for the two rosés. There are other beautiful rosés I think people could take, but these are rosés that have dominated the market. The price on the Fantastique is obviously going to be a little more expensive, but I think it's worth it for the holiday. For my second glass this year, I'm using one of the De Montiel's. I probably will take the Nuit Saint-Georges or the Volnais, which are drinking much younger, much better. For the second glass First night, I usually use De Montiel.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:08:01

I think it's just a much more prestigious wine. For the same reason, because it's Pesach, I would use that. There's actually a couple of choices for that. You could use the Volnay from 2020, or I would use a Nuit Saint-Georges, which is de Montiel's. You know, baby, child, and it's not the most expensive. But to me I think it's the greatest combination right now of pinot that has earth and um and fruit.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:08:30

Now, this is a young wine, obviously. Uh, you know, if you have another wine which is not ours that somebody has in there which I use, this purim, my last bottle. There is a close vijoe 2004 made royal brought it in. Then it's lou Louis Latour. If you have that bottle, this is the time to drink that bottle. That would be the ultimate one of the Mashiach wines that they call. I would use that bottle. I used it for Purim, so I don't have it. The second night I would use Ajetar.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:09:02

My choice is Bon Premier Cru, again, not the most expensive, but either the Bon Premier Cru or just a regular Volnay. There's a regular Volnay. It's not Premier Cru, it's village level. Again, not the most expensive, but beautiful. Drinking Fruity has a little bit of earth on it. The weight is a little bit heavier, so a little bit of earth on it. The weight is a little bit heavier, so a little bit more extracted. So a lot of my Ashkenazim friends love it because they like a weightier wine. So those are what I would recommend for those wines. The third glass again, I'm spoiled. I'm not going to lie to you, simon. You know I'm going to drink a Ballinger 05. But what I drink I share. Simon, you know I'm going to drink a Valens 05, you know. But when I drink I share with everybody. No, I know.

S Simon Jacob: 1:09:51

Ralph, I'm asking you for your opinion. I love it. I love it.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:10:00

Everybody. You know there are people at different levels, right? So Valens 05 is what I would pick. I understand that you're talking about a $400 bottle, $500 bottle, so people can't afford that. Another choice that I would probably use is there is we have used a Leoville OO. Okay, because it has age on it. The legs are now showing themselves.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:10:24

It's a long wine that's made by Royal beautiful wine. I have a lot of that as well, so I would use that. Last year I used Smit Lafite 2000. You see, if you use these aged wines, you're not going to be burnt down with acidity, you're not going to be burnt down with, like, overly tannic wine. For the third one, where you're going to eat with Shulchan Orech, last year, again, I used Smit OO. I used I used in the past Valandrol 5. I use almost every year for the last five years and but I would use an aged Bordeaux, which is which is what I do.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:11:02

As a note, I will tell you rather recently I don't know if you saw my Instagram we hosted Ham David Yosef. I saw, I saw, and one of the things he told us about his father, his father would use grape juice for the last, at least for the last three cups, if not four. Why? Because it says you know you stay up and you protect and you want to learn Torah. So he didn't want to be bogged down with overly heavy wines. That would make him tired and then he couldn't learn all night. You know, he stressed the point that it has to be for the kids and that you have to really stay up at night.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:11:39

So from there I took my, one of my takeaways. We have to find wine is that is not going to bog us down. So that's why I do that. Um, other choices that I thought would be nice um, just so you know is an age, just something you have in your collection is the old chalk hills 97, 98, 99, those. This is the time to bring them out. Those chalk hills, um, have fruit, they have the weight. They're not going to bog you down with acidity. There will be a little bit more fruit in there, like sugar, because California is obviously higher alcohol content, so that would give you a headache in the morning. But now is the time to bring all of those early 2005, 2004 chocales, if you have them, that's the time to bring.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:12:23

For the third cup, for the last cup, I'll tell you what I do. This year I probably will be doing something a little different. There is a brand new wine that I was very excited we made. It's called Baffanero. It's an Italian Merlot and what I like about it is that it's aged for three years in large oak, so it's not overly tannic. It's a beautifully balanced wine and I think for the last cup it's a beautiful last. So this year, rather than doing a new French for the first night, I will be doing this Italian Merlot. It's called Baffanero, it's brand new.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:13:02

People again who don't want to spend. I would tell them there's another excellent choice. For the last glass I would use a Chianti Reserva. It's a little more acidic than General, but the Reserva is aged a little bit more. And the people who want a more bolder wine, a beautiful wine for that, so they don't wake up with a headache, so they don't have all this extra sugar at night. There's a Sicilian wine called Faudi di Biscotto. It's a Nero d'Avola. It has the weight of Pinot Noir but it drinks like a big cab and you can use that and it's not expensive. You're talking about a $50 bottle Nero d'Avola from Sicily. The company is Faud di Pesciotto.

S Simon Jacob: 1:13:46

One last question Any special customs or special experiences you have at the Seder that you could share?

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:13:55

So you know, one of the big customs you find in the Serbian community is when they do you know, the dams for their. I don't know if they do that, but they pour wine and water. They usually give it to the young girls to do as if they're taking away all the makots they're taking away, and usually that's a good sign for girls to get married that year. So when the father's reading them, there's one girl with one of the eligible ones who recently need to get married within the year. One is holding water, the other one is holding wine and they're pouring it into a big basin. Then they take it out of the room, which is a custom that you see in very and all they do they do it You're talking about Syrians and Lebanese Egyptians and all they do they do it. You're talking about Syrians and Lebanese Egyptians. So that's one that's custom that I think is unique to the Sephardic religion. Obviously, you know every state that has.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:15:00

We're very big on focusing on the kids I'm sure many people. So we bring toys, we bring gifts and games and everything for the kids so that everybody's asking questions, everybody's saying it Vartora, everybody's doing something so that they're giving out prizes to the kids and even where we go away, right. So even we were in Punta Cana last year. This year we're going to Curacao, to a Dutch island. We slept all the toys, everything with us so that the kids, um the so the kids are, the kids are happy and they're asking and they're all involved. We want to get them involved in the center. So it's a it's a very big thing, it's like unique for us that we, the entire family, doctors and lawyers and everybody get together even easier to get together there than to get together on an average Shabbat. Amen, and like the Pasuk says, ki me'etzeh techa me'eretz mitzrayim Hareinu nifla'ot, I should continue to give you protection the whole year and we miss you very, very dearly and the light of Pesach should continue for you the whole year.

S Simon Jacob: 1:16:04

Amen, and for you too. Please, thank God, take care.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 1:16:09

Amen.

S Simon Jacob: 1:16:11

Good afternoon Avi Davidovitz. Pleasure to speak to you. It's almost Pesach, so I have four questions, okay, okay, the first one is your Pesach strategy for the four kosot, for the four cups.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:16:41

So for me, I really have had a strategy for the last number of years that has worked for me really well. And I'll start off with the first cup. You know we're sort of coming into that first cup after a day of cooking and you know you go to Daven Longkila and then you get home and you're pretty much on an empty stomach and you're asked to drink. You know, rove Coats the majority of a cup of whatever Coats you have, of that first wine and it's not to zip, you have to drink it in a certain amount of time. All these, all these cups.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:17:18

So I don't like to go with anything too heavy on the first cup. I go with a rosé, um and uh. You know I like to have it not too austere. You know there are, there are different types of rosés. Some are very austere and crisp and dry crisp and dry and some of them will be all the way around and you can get an offshore rosé that's very sweet and fruity. I'm not usually into that, but I go with something which is not too austere but still dry and not over-the-top alcohol-wise. Most rosés aren't. So for this year I actually chose the 2023 Flam Rosé, which is a wonderful bottle. In general, I would suggest to everyone who's listening to always go with the current vintage for rosés. So that's a topic for a different conversation okay, second cup that's the first cup.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:18:23

Second cup we move on to. You know, the second cup sort of comes, leads us right into the meal. Um, you know you're you're drinking it. You know with pretty much, you know with, uh, right around the, you know with pretty much, you know with right around the matzah and right as you move into the meal and for that I also don't want to go anything too heavy, also because I'll likely be finishing that bottle with the meal I sort of get something which will lead into one of the courses that I'll be having with the meal. So I usually have a poultry course at the Seder and I try to get a Pinot, and this year I chose the 2018 Pinot Noir, which I think is one of the best Pinot Noirs that's been put out. It's both varietally, true, and it's got the right body. It's a New World Pinot, so it's not going to taste like a Burgundy, but it's one of the better New World Pinots that's been put out, certainly out of Israel.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:19:32

And one other note before I go on you know this year is a. It's a tough year in Israel, uh, for obvious reasons, and I think it's really important, even if you don't necessarily only drink Israeli for the Seder. I know some people have that been hugged only drink Israeli wines, uh, for the Seder? Um, I don't, but this year I am, and that's really to support the industry. I think it's important for everyone, if they can, to make space for Israeli wines at their Seder this year. The industry is hurting and the country is hurting, but the wine industry specifically is hurting. It's been a tough few years and I think we should do whatever we can to help support these wineries that we all love, especially now, because it is really tough out there. 2022 was a sneaky year. There's obviously a drop in sales 2023, you know we had a tough time with the war and tough, tough out there, and that's coming after COVID, where it was tough for these wineries too. So I'm a big believer in doing what we can to support these wineries, if we can.

S Simon Jacob: 1:20:54

You know it's interesting. I was speaking to Amichai Luria earlier and a whole bunch of his guys just got called back into Miloim. They finally came back and things were finally getting normal and moving along and he's ready to, like I was going to say, pull his hair out. He doesn't have much hair left to pull, but he's um, but he's like going crazy because they're some of his main people who finally came back after being away for months and months. He finally had some release for relief from that. Have gone back in at least at least through june is what they telling him. So it's really crazy.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:21:37

It's made a difficult situation going into 2020, into this vintage. You know it's intolerable. I mean, basically, while the vintage is okay in terms of harvest, right, basically most of Israel had harvested by October 7th, right? Basically most of Israel had harvested by October 7th, right? But no one had really processed their grapes fully and no one had manpower. And people really are struggling to get these wines produced. And then you know a and and and and, just even just the production of the wine. Just you know blending and and and and. That's knowledge there's. There's there's a lot of labor that goes into making a wine and if you don't have the manpower available to you, um, you know the wine is really at risk. And a lot of these, these wineries, are suffering. And let's not even talk about what's going on up north and the wineries that are up there who are under constant bombardment, like to this day. You know it's a very tough time in.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:22:49

Israel and obviously things have gotten better from where they were. But it's really important, I think, for people to try to support the industry if they can. Anyhow that's me on my soapbox.

S Simon Jacob: 1:23:05

I know Okay, so you've gone through. I think we've gone through two consults.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:23:10

First two.

S Simon Jacob: 1:23:11

Yeah.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:23:11

Then you have a meal and for me, I have a whole bunch of people over we have around 20 people over each year for for the seder and, and you know, we consume wine. Uh, so that's where you bring out. You know the special bottle, you know what you're having with your. Your pays off food. Uh, you know, we people always talk about having a bottle of wine that you really serve to mashiach, if he came to start the ghoul at that time. So you know you try to pick out a wine that's been aging for a bit. This year I chose Yathir Forest 2013. I haven't had it in a while.

S Simon Jacob: 1:23:45

That's great. That should be unbelievable. That should be a great bottle.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:23:49

And I'm looking forward to drinking that. Then we move into the Third Coast, which is right after you've had that big meal, uh, and I again don't want to have anything too heavy there because I just had a big meal and I know I have another coast coming up at the end. So I move back to rose and, uh, usually something a bit more crisp than the first rose, and this year I'm going to go with a Matar 2023 rosé and that's as close to provincial rosé as you're going to find in Israel. It's crisp and full of minerality. It's a really really nice bottle. The Philam and the Matar are really my top two rosés for this year, for the 2023 vintage. Great stuff, Highly recommend.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:24:45

Who's the first three? The last cup is I do something a little bit off the beaten track. The last cup is after we finished halal and we're right before the singing section of the Haggadah and really all that's left is to. This is the last thing you're going to be drinking and eating. This is the last taste you're supposed to have in your mouth and you know I don't mind sort of blasting off into the stratosphere. So I actually go and I have these small. You know, I don't mind, sort of blasting off into the stratosphere. So I actually go and I have these small, you know minimum requirement amount cups for the Seder that are about 100 milliliters.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:25:27

I go for a port which is obviously not everyone's choice, but I love finishing a meal with a port, and why not do it at the theater? And this year it'll be 2012? Matota LBV, lake Bavo Vintage Port, which is one of my all-time favorites and that's what I'm drinking. I'll also have another rosé on the table, just for people who don't want to go that route, because I do have 20 people there and not all of them are going to want to. You know, blast off with me, uh, and for that I'll have a ammoni vineyard. Noni estate winery. They have a wonderful rose, uh, and if you're in the states, you're lucky. You'll be able to find it. If you're in israel, you're less lucky. It it's called Pale of Rosé. They make three or four different rosés. I can't say that I've tasted all of them. This one I have, and it's wonderful how do you spell that?

S Simon Jacob: 1:26:25

How do you spell it?

Avi Davidowitz: 1:26:27

Moni.

S Simon Jacob: 1:26:28

No, no, no, no, I meant the pale. What's it it? No, not pale. Oh, it's a pale rosé.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:26:34

Okay, no, not pale Pale T-A-L-E.

S Simon Jacob: 1:26:37

Oh, tale of rosé, okay.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:26:38

Tale of rosé Got it. The story of rosé Got it got, it got it, but it's not found in Israel.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:26:49

You won't find it in any shelf here. If you want it about, you know a half, so so it's. It's. It's hard to find in Israel, but it is readily available. I think the happy hearts brings it in in in New York and so you can get it there. It's a great, great rosé and very nice to finish off if you don't want to go the port route. That's, that's my, that's my state of strategy. Cool.

S Simon Jacob: 1:27:20

So normally I would ask you a third question. Well, a second question as far as the suggestions for each of the cups, but you already went through that with me, so that was good. Unless you've got another suggestion, I'll give you one.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:27:39

I mean, listen, there are a lot of different strategies a lot of people will go with and I don't and I have this at my theater also, I don't, you know, write about it or suggest it for you know, for obvious reasons. You know, I have the moscato type wines for people who just want something very low alcohol, um and and sweet and easy to sort of knock back, you know. So that's important, it's important to have, you know, the best wine is the wine that you like. It's important for the theater to have wines that people like, and not everyone is a big wine drinker and likes dry wine.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:28:10

I try to make sure that everyone has something to drink and luckily, you know when I'm something to drink and luckily you know when I'm hosting. I really, you know, just open up, you know, the cellar and pull out whatever you want. So it's just sort of easy. But these are the ones I try to have, you know, make sure that I have on hand, uh, so that I'm, you know, sort of providing automatically, and if someone wants something else, I'm always happy to pull something else out. Someone wants to try something, but, like I said, the Moscato, not the Moscato specifically, or the Bartonero Moscato or whatever. I try to actually have Pepper. Burr and Carmel both make in Israel at least pink Moscato. That sort of are better for the four cups, so I try to have some of that on hand as well for people.

S Simon Jacob: 1:28:54

Okay, so I have one last question Customs or experiences you guys do at your Seder, or that you've seen at a Seder that's been hosted by somebody else for you?

Avi Davidowitz: 1:29:17

had a minhag of, or he has a minhag of, actually, you know, uh, leaving his seder table, going to his neighbors and inviting them over during the seder, um, so that's one cool uh minhag that I've seen uh, seen uh in, you know, around we don't do that but uh, that that was sort of cool the first time I saw that. Uh. For us, you know, the satyr for us is really about food and specific foods that we have. Um, you know, I grew up my mid-head was not to eat, uh, the brocks, which is, you know, anything which has masa and water though I've seen this on past. But so a lot, of, a lot of the foods that we have are, you know, sort of like they're Seder foods, right.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:30:00

So we always have the Seder with another couple, another family, and we all sort of contribute to the Seder food-wise. They always bring a gribanis, which is fried chicken skin and schmaltz which we smear on. Matzah and I make these Pesach noodles out of eggs and potatoes. These are little foods that are special. That for me and my family sort of embody. You know you're having Pesach. When you see all that stuff cooking, you're very excited. That's what sort of makes Pesach and Meshach special for us.

S Simon Jacob: 1:30:42

Avi, I know that it's tough around this time and I know your son went into the army this morning, so I know you've got all sorts of stuff going through your head. Thank you very much for taking the time to share with me. It's really a pleasure.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:30:59

Well, thanks, thanks for having me and you know, hopefully it'll be the holiday of freedom for everyone. Yeah, you know which is really important right now. We can only hope for sure, thank you. Thank you very much now, and we can only hope for sure to wear a besorot to a lot of people.

S Simon Jacob: 1:31:16

Thank you.

Avi Davidowitz: 1:31:17

And thank you very much.

Assaf Paz: 1:31:25

Simon, how are you?

S Simon Jacob: 1:31:26

Hello Gabriel Geller. Great, I'm great, great. First of all, chag, pesach, keshav and Sameach. Please, god, all right.

Gabriel Geller: 1:31:35

To you, to Chag Pesach Keshav and Sameach To you and to all Amish.

S Simon Jacob: 1:31:40

Amen, because it's almost Erev Pesach. I would ask them four questions. Okay, so you up for it? Sure, all right. The first one is do you have a Pesach strategy for the four cups of wine?

Gabriel Geller: 1:31:56

Yes, I do so. The strategy is very simple. I use the same wine for all the four cups, the rosé and for Shulchanoach. For the meal, I open a bottle of aged wine, a nice aged wine, from the cellar, and the first cellar I use only Israeli wine, and the second cellar, the cellar of the. Galut. I use only wine from the Galut.

S Simon Jacob: 1:32:31

Very cool. Wow, I've heard part of that, but that's the first time I've heard that. That's interesting. So there is a difference between your first and second Seder, which is the second question I was going to ask you, and that's really interesting what about selection? What sort of wines would you recommend?

Gabriel Geller: 1:32:55

so selection? Of course that will depend on each. What about selection? What sort of wines would you recommend? So selection, of course that will depend on each individual either the food or, of course, personal preferences, requirements for Mevouchal and non-Mevouchal, and so on and so forth. I would tell people to, of course, drink what they like, but also be mindful of their guests, their family around the table and have wines that will appeal to different palates.

Gabriel Geller: 1:33:34

So, people who really focus on drinking red wine and like really red wine, not just rosé like I do, I would say you could have a nice Pinot Noir it's not too heavy, let's say the Vitkin Pinot Noir a really nice option for that and then you can go crescendo as the meal comes by. Perhaps you can have something a little heavier, whether it's a varietal Syrah Cabernet Sauvignon or a blend Syrah Cabernet Sauvignon or a blend and as you move on to the next cups.

Gabriel Geller: 1:34:19

of course you could adapt, you know, like with the Afficoma and some people I've done that in the past myself develop in the dessert wine and you know there you could go even with a port, which can be a little harsh because port is high in alcohol. But as you are, you know more. Towards the end of the setter and you had the meal and hopefully you also drank some water. It's a little easier and you know you'll have a nice night of sleep have a nice night of sleep.

Gabriel Geller: 1:34:57

So I think those are some of the strategies that I can recommend to people. Or why don't you try it my way? One cup the best rosé you can find for the cups. And then open a really special ball that you've been keeping away, you know, for special occasions, such as the Leila Seder, and open that. So this year, actually for the first night, the first Seder, I will open, god willing, zat Hashem Caramel Limited Edition 2009.

S Simon Jacob: 1:35:34

Wow Cool.

Gabriel Geller: 1:35:39

And Flamme Rosé for the four cups.

S Simon Jacob: 1:35:41

Very cool. Okay, so I have one last question, because you've answered the first three. One last question is do you have any special customs or experiences that you guys do at your Seder or that you've had being hosted by somebody else? That was special um sure.

Gabriel Geller: 1:36:03

Uh, so special, special customs, uh, I mean, you know some people, uh, they have a different minhagim in terms of like which type of food also they they can have like nothing grilled or roasted, because we don't have the vetanic dash and so we unfortunately cannot do the Korban Pesach, and I know that there are communities that have the minak to dafka do four of the Korban Pesach and eat roasted lamb or something like that. We don't do that, but we have the custom to eat tong and that's like the main dish at the meal. We have tong, which I know it's either boiled or cooked in a pressure cooker, which is what we do, and usually, you know, that's the type of dish that I would pair with Pinot Noir. I love the tongue with Pinot Noir, but I think the caramel limited edition, being aged with softer tannins, will be a great match, even though it's not a Pinot Noir.

S Simon Jacob: 1:37:18

Very cool. Wow, I thank you very much, gabriel. I know now is a busy, busy season and things are crazy. Thank you for finding some time to talk to me, that's exactly what I was looking for A pleasure, Really a pleasure. It's my pleasure, pleasure. I miss you. I really miss you. I'm looking forward to either you being here or we might be there the last week or so of May.

Gabriel Geller: 1:37:46

We'll see what happens oh, very nice, well looking forward, and if I make it to Israel soon, obviously I will keep you posted on that you have a place to stay.

S Simon Jacob: 1:38:01

I know you have family here anyway, but you have a place to stay so okay, thank you, look forward please. Regards home.

Gabriel Geller: 1:38:10

Okay, please, absolutely hopefully talk again soon and really to all the family Ha'akash HaBesameach. And God willing all the families who have people handed in by Hamas will be returned to their families for Pesach.

S Simon Jacob: 1:38:35

With God's help. Thank you, amen. All right, take care, take care, be well. Bye, please, bye-bye, hello. Hello Nachum, how are you?

Gabriel Geller: 1:38:50

Mani Shema.

S Simon Jacob: 1:38:52

It's good to hear your voice. I really, really miss you. I miss you.

Penina Kustanowitz: 1:38:57

Thank you.

S Simon Jacob: 1:38:58

Okay. So this, being close to Pesach, this podcast is. I've been questioning a number of people about some of their practices, so I have for you four questions, I think apropos to Pesach. Okay, that's great. Yes, of course.

Nachum Segal: 1:39:15

So I have for you four questions. I think apropos to Pesach. Okay, that's great. Yes, of course.

S Simon Jacob: 1:39:18

The first one is what are your Pesach strategies for the four cups of wine Light rosé, heavy reds, or whatever the host provides, or whatever?

Nachum Segal: 1:39:44

Because of past experience I have no choice but to go as light as possible without crossing over into the grape juice arena. So I generally will use a wine like a Concord Call which again is very little alcohol in it. It's probably the best thing for me and I'd still again, because traditionally I'd rather use wine Seder than grape juice, which I would use on a normal Shabbos. So I would probably go the Concord Cow root.

S Simon Jacob: 1:40:09

Okay, For all of them. You use the same wine for all four cups.

Nachum Segal: 1:40:15

I would imagine. I'm trying to think if I'm going to switch it up. All the truth is, for cup three and four I may go to grape juice. I may be at that stage in the eating and drinking experience where it's better for me to go for grape juice, but for the first two I'll go for real wine, again something that I consider real wine. Have it on the light side is.

S Simon Jacob: 1:40:38

Is there a difference between your first seder and your second seder?

Nachum Segal: 1:40:44

well in general in house. I don't know if this is actually a good practice. I always question this as a, as a father and as a leader of the seder. I don't know if it's a good practice, but there's definitely a lighter attitude toward the second Seder. So if I'm in the mood, so to speak, or physically, if I feel it would be beneficiary for me to go grape juice for the entire second night, I would do it, something I probably wouldn't do for the first and second cup. The first night I would resist that temptation. The second night again. I don't know if this is proper Jewish education or not when you're living in the diaspora, but we seem to take it. Not that we, god forbid, do anything improper, but we take the second Seder seriously, a drop less seriously than the first one.

S Simon Jacob: 1:41:32

Okay, what about suggestions for the actual wines themselves? Do you go with the red Moscato types?

Nachum Segal: 1:41:46

First of all, it's ironic that my favorite wine of the last few months is actually not Cochlea Pesa, which is really, really ironic. I'm referring to the Bartanur al-Lichy can. Bartanur can's regular Moscato are kosher lepesach Al-Lichy ones are not, and that is just so ironic that I can't enjoy it. On Pesach, I'm not only referring to the Seder, I'm referring to the all-the-days Yontif, because I'm sure you know that in the Diaspora we have five full days of Shabbos and Yontif during Pesach, which is really crazy. So you know, normally I'd go in that direction.

Nachum Segal: 1:42:23

We do have a case of regular Barton or Moscato. So I'm sure I'm going to have some of that. And you know I'm going to have some meals. Where prominent guests are over, I'm going to suggest to them to enjoy some of our black muscat, late harvest Chenin Blanc, two of my favorites. And then, of course, you know, there are some Segal and Dalton and other wines from Israel that we do have in the house. So when we have, you know, people who know their wines over for certain meals, those are the ones I'm going to be offering them.

S Simon Jacob: 1:42:54

Very cool. Okay, so I have one last, one final question Are there any special customs or experiences that you guys share at the Seder.

Nachum Segal: 1:43:06

It's funny because I mean this one's not wine related, but I always tell people that because we are from the Vilna Goan, we are eight generations from the Vilna Goan, we are eight generations from the Vilna Goan in honor of Saba Eliyahu Eliyahu is the Vilna Goan's first name my father would always use two matzahs instead of three at the second seder. Again, a way of I don't want to say again I may be using the wrong word about not taking the second Seder as seriously, but people, I think, get the point that we'll change things up, which we would never do during the first Seder. First Seder, of course, our tradition is we have three matzahs. The Gra, the Vilni Gon, had two matzahs at his Seder, so very often my father would use two at the second Seder just as a symbolic gesture tip of the hat, so to speak, to the Ghosn In terms of other you know.

Nachum Segal: 1:43:59

Here's an interesting one. My father, you know most people, I think most people I wonder if I'm right about this Most people will dip their finger, their pinky, you know into the wine in order to spill the wine. During the 10 plagues and during Dombaesh, et cetera, my father always used a spoon, which I know some people are not in favor of, but my father would use a spoon. It would take a little bit out with the spoon, you know, each time that's what we do, which again I think is more unusual than what others do. That's what we do, which again I think is more unusual than what others do in other households. I'm trying to think of what other customs were on the slightly different side, or more unusual side.

Nachum Segal: 1:44:48

The leader of our Seder washes. Orchats washes during the second stage of the stages of the Seder. Nobody else at the table did. My father would be the only one to wash for Orchatz. I in my house, am the only one who washes for Orchatz and obviously when it comes to eating matzah, everybody washes. But that custom of washing and making sure your hands are clean and dry before eating a wet vegetable again, because it was because my father, I assume, viewed it as more symbolic than halachic. You know more, incorporating, you know, one of our regulations, as opposed to it being a strict thing that everybody at the table must do, especially if their hands are dry, that it's likely that they wouldn't have to do it, so he would wash, but the rest of us would not.

Nachum Segal: 1:45:37

Trying to just think if there's anything else. Oh, we always, my father had a very, very strict policy, which I have been a little bit. I've been a little bit lenient when it comes to my father's strict policy. Anything eaten at the Seder cannot be eaten. That day, monday, erev Pesach you cannot eat. Comes is my father's sweet policy. Anything eaten at the seder cannot be eaten that day. Monday, erif pesach you cannot eat. And that included eggs, because we ate eggs at the seder to start and honor of the carbon. And it included potatoes because we ate potatoes for karpas. So if your plan was to have karpas potato, you could not eat meat and potatoes, you know, but you were going to have because you were going to have the potatoes. You can to have the potatoes, you could have the meat, but you can't have the potatoes during the day because you're going to have it at the Seder. So I, oh and then and then he wouldn't eat apples. He wouldn't eat apples or Pesach, because apples are in the haroses.

AmiChai Lourie: 1:46:27

So he went in with a full full desire for everything that was being served.

Nachum Segal: 1:46:32

Correct, correct. You have to show that literally, the Seder is the penultimate meal of the year and the most important. Therefore, you don't touch anything that you would have during the Seder. He literally, I think, had borscht without the potatoes, had borscht Erev Pesach and had some meat. I think that was basically his afternoon meal, because everyone wants to eat in the afternoon because the Seder starts so late. So I've been more lenient.

Nachum Segal: 1:47:01

If someone in my family wants eggs or wants potatoes, that that is not a problem. Or something made like potato kugel made out of potatoes, that would not be a problem. But obviously matzah. And I'm trying to think if there's anything else problem. Um, but obviously matzah, and and I'm trying to think of anything else, I mean, I guess, romaine lettuce. We wouldn't have um error, face up. But the haros says ingredients, meaning not haros, haros is ingredients. We would let people have funny tidbit about the seagull family.

Nachum Segal: 1:47:28

My brother, my younger brother's bris, was on error of pesach and they served two items. You can't, you know you can't serve matzah, obviously you and you can't wash on bread. Well, the truth is, you could have washed on bread and it's possible they did, and then eliminated the chametz from the area before they went ahead and served. Obviously, whatever they're going to serve is stuff that's kashul of Pesach, because who's going to mass-produce something that's chametz like Erev Pesach? So I think that they may have washed on bread that's very possible once the bris was done but then, in terms of the meal, when they cleared out the hummets, they served two things. They served potato kugel because, again, you know and I guess my father did have potatoes that year arafat. So they served potato kugel and they served slivovitz. That's something that's very appropriate for this conversation. Have you had Schlitowitz recently?

S Simon Jacob: 1:48:18

I haven't had it recently and I try to stay away from it. To be quite honest, what about eggnosh?

Nachum Segal: 1:48:27

Do you remember those eggnosh bottles?

S Simon Jacob: 1:48:30

You know what I don't? I don't remember those. I wasn't a New Yorker.

Nachum Segal: 1:48:33

I don't know if the I wasn't a New Yorker, so I don't remember those. I don't remember the eggnog, which was obviously a takeoff on eggnog. I wonder if the eggnog was even custom-made, so I don't remember. I don't remember if that was a Pesach item or a Rosh Hashanah Sukkot item, but anyway.

S Simon Jacob: 1:48:43

I certainly remember you bet, you bet, whatever. I know that that was the only that was the, that was that was the, that and the and the salted breakstone butters, salted and sweet breakstone butter.

Nachum Segal: 1:49:02

So I mean yes, the blue, the blue container.

AmiChai Lourie: 1:49:05

Yeah, the blue container.

Gabriel Geller: 1:49:06

Yes. Yeah, it was yep, that was history.

S Simon Jacob: 1:49:12

All right, I know Pesach is a tough. You know this is a tough time of the year Everybody's rushing and doing things. Nahum, thank you very, very much for taking the time to join me A pleasure An honor. All right, really an honor for me too, thank you. Thank you and regards to Stacey, thank you.

Nachum Segal: 1:49:28

To you as well, hakashav as a man as well.

S Simon Jacob: 1:49:31

Ha'kashuvah Sameach and my best to you and your family.

Nachum Segal: 1:49:33

Yes, ha'kashuvah, sameach and, as we say on this side of the world, aziz and Pesach, something they probably never said in Singapore.

S Simon Jacob: 1:49:40

No, they didn't say it in India or Singapore at all, ever, but it's okay.

Michael Kaye: 1:49:46

All right.

S Simon Jacob: 1:49:46

Shalom Ubrecha, shalom Ubrecha.

Nachum Segal: 1:49:48

Thank you.

Richard Davidoff: 1:49:52

Shalom.

S Simon Jacob: 1:49:52

Simon. Hello Yacovoria, it's almost Pesach, so for this podcast I've been asking a number of people four questions. I think it's appropriate for Pesach Four questions, four questions. Okay, good so the first one is do you have a Pesach strategy for the four cups of wine?

Ya'acov Oryah: 1:50:15

Yeah, I do have a strategy and it's really common sense, I think At least common sense to my sense. See, the problem with pairing wine to the four kosot is that we don't really meet them during a meal. It's officially on the seder, but at no point of drinking the kosod. It's part of the meal and it's really meeting the wine on a sacramental, religious aspect of drinking wine, because it's a mitzvah and not because we're enjoying a meal and let's have a good wine with it. And I think that dictates different considerations that we might have if we go out to a restaurant and want to bring a bottle of wine for a good meal. In fact, even though it's before and after the meal, it's not in the meal. So I think and I would add to that, it's a serious night. It's a night that goes on for many hours, with a lot of intellectual debates and interactions with people and singing and staying up late. You've got to think of our consciousness and our awareness and I think that calls for a strategy. What I like to start?

Ya'acov Oryah: 1:51:37

and I like to start off with a very light wine uh, low alcohol okay and uh, it's uh, the easy candidates that are sweet wines with, uh, with low alcohol content, something like a Moscato, or wines made in that style, and they're very enjoyable. For years I used to have a Tepperberg Hamburg Moscato or red Moscato, but recently I find that it's not the perfect pairing because, although the alcohol is low, it's bubbles, and bubbles allow the wine to go into your digestive system prematurely and you actually get a very fast intake of alcohol to the bloodstream. When you have bubbles in the wine, and what would happen is because you're on an empty stomach, as you know to the bloodstream. When you have bubbles in the wine, interesting, and what would happen is because you're on an empty stomach. As you know, you're supposed to come to the Seder on an empty stomach and having wine on an empty stomach is a challenge to begin with, especially if you have bubbles.

Ya'acov Oryah: 1:52:51

So what I try to use for the four kosots the first quote, would be a low alcohol wine. It's not hard to find, but they're not very common. You have to search for them. You know you can find today white wines of 10.5% alcohol. They're enjoyable, they're fresh, they're a good start for an evening, they're a great aperitif and they're easy on you. You don't have to, they don't throw you off your feet. I would go to the last coast now. The last coast is really after you're finished eating and it's after the halal and you know you're basically tucked away the seder and you're on leisure now and that's when I would have a dessert wine, again with low alcohol, because we already consumed a lot of alcohol that evening and I would have a pleasant dessert wine. I mean, it's not a port wine that will take you into the 20% alcohols, although they're enjoyable and you are on a full stomach. But again, this might be a little heavy and if it's too much, then just you know lovely low-alcohol dessert wines which are very reasonable.

Ya'acov Oryah: 1:54:07

The two kossots in between I try to drink red wine mainly because of the at least the second kossot would be a dam, v'esh mit yimrot ashan. I want the wine to look like dam. So I look for wines that are relatively low alcohol, and there are today. In the past used to be harder to find, but today there's plenty of nice examples of, you know, alcohol, the wines that are not heavy, not over-extracted, they're fresh. I can find good wines at 13% alcohol, very enjoyable, very drinkable, not heavy on you, and especially if you had a Carpas in between, and sometimes you elaborate and maybe do a little potato or even completely elaborate and have some antipasti, so you're not on an empty stomach at that point. So we can have an enjoyable nice red and brokkat amazon Also a nice red that's not too heavy. And that would be my order A very light beginning, two light breads in the middle and a dessert at the end.

S Simon Jacob: 1:55:00

Cool. Any suggestions for what wines, what those wines should be? Can you make a suggestion?

Ya'acov Oryah: 1:55:09

The main suggestion is wines that you like. Okay, that's the honest suggestion. I mean, I have wines in my portfolio that match what I just said, but I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending that All right?

S Simon Jacob: 1:55:22

No, I'm Okay, you could. I was asking you. So if there are wines that are in your portfolio that match, then I would love to know them.

Ya'acov Oryah: 1:55:33

Okay, the beginning wine will be definitely or Me'ofel. Even part of the seder we take. We take cool, so it's you know. Basically, in the seder it's 10.5% alcohol. If you're careful to drink red wine and the seder, by definition, it's red wine because it's made from red grapes, even though it doesn't look like that and it's just fun to begin with. Like that, it's not heavy, it's not taxing, very enjoyable. If I were to go again to the last course, it would definitely be the Simeon. For those of us who don't have a problem with Eterna Kira, simeon is 7.5% alcohol, a lovely dessert wine to end the evening with. If you are concerned about Heter Mechira, then we have the Vionier, which is 10%, also very low, refreshing, fun, but not Heter Mechira. And in between I'll drink any good red. I have my Adadam, which is a lot of great wines out there that people could enjoy.

S Simon Jacob: 1:56:36

Cool, okay. So the next question really doesn't apply to you, but maybe you've experienced it in the past Is there a difference between the first and the second Seder?

Ya'acov Oryah: 1:56:52

Yes, I did experience it in the past. Yes, I did experience it in the past and I experienced it in a way that more of an observer and early childhood memories and today, thinking about it, it seems like very overwhelming and taxing. And, you know, finally get through it, start from scratch the whole thing again. But from conversations that I had with people that do do this, I got a lot of feedback of people that really enjoy the second seder a lot more, Because the first one they're cooking and getting ready and cleaning and we were hames and the house has to be cleaned and setting up the table. The second Seder they're coming to already out of a relaxation of Chag. Things are more relaxed, they're more peaceful, they're more with themselves to enjoy what a Seder could be. I find it strange you know the custom or the halakha to continue this, but what could you do?

Ya'acov Oryah: 1:58:00

that's the halakha, it's just the way it is but for somebody that got used to living in Israel, with the correlation between what the Torah says and what we do and going back to Chutzah, when you see the things that are, for so much of historical reasons, are different, it just creates some kind of dissonance with me, but that's just my personal feeling.

S Simon Jacob: 1:58:27

I get it. When I asked Amichai that question, he said they should move to Israel Next.

Ya'acov Oryah: 1:58:36

I said yeah, saying the same thing in a much more delicate more words, but yes.

S Simon Jacob: 1:58:43

I get it. Last question, final question Sure, any special customs or experiences that you have. You have a big family now there that you have at your Seder, anything special that you guys do or that you've experienced even in a past Seder?

Ya'acov Oryah: 1:59:04

Yeah, it's something that I come unprepared Okay, I enjoy. I believe that the light, the enlightenment that the Seder gives us is a little trickle of Org? Ula and because it's coming gradually, that means the Org Ula that we got last year, that was good for last year. This year we're advanced, we're getting a different kind of Org? Ula and the Org Ulaullah, as if going on a staircase every year brings you one step forward and therefore I can't rely on what I know. I'm here to a new experience of the new Orgiullah and I like to read the Sayyidah and the Haggadah with no pre meditated ideas or thought of let's look at it as if from new and I've been doing this for a few years and I think every year I see that I got down in new light and I'm careful not to be prepared and it's just very enlightening to see new aspects that I never thought of before and I just enjoy this data because of that.

S Simon Jacob: 2:00:15

That's really beautiful, really beautiful, beautiful thought, rather than coming into the whole notebook of notes that you want to present to other people.

Ya'acov Oryah: 2:00:27

Exactly, exactly. We're here to take a step forward, right, I agree to take a step forward.

S Simon Jacob: 2:00:33

Right, I agree. So it's always busy over Pesach and I really want to thank you for taking the time to spend a few minutes in helping me with this podcast.

Ya'acov Oryah: 2:00:45

So thank you, my pleasure and honor. Thank you, simon.

S Simon Jacob: 2:00:48

Pleasure.

Ya'acov Oryah: 2:00:50

Pleasure and to all your listeners. Chag Kasher V'Sameach.

S Simon Jacob: 2:00:53

Chag Kasher V'Sameach. Thank you, thank you very much.

Jay Buchsbaum: 2:01:04

Hello Ari Loxbizer.

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:01:06

How are you, Rabbi Jacob? How's everything doing?

S Simon Jacob: 2:01:09

It's not Rabbi yet. I'm still just a Stam Pashut Yehudi. You're a Rabbi to me. That's all me. Thank you very much for joining me.

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:01:19

I told you for you, it's my pleasure.

S Simon Jacob: 2:01:21

So, this being kind of the air of Pesach podcast, I wanted to call a bunch of different people and ask them four questions. I thought it was appropriate for Pesach four questions, that's perfect. So okay, all right. So here goes here. Four questions, that's perfect, so okay, alright. So here goes. Here's the questions. The first one is do you have a Pesach strategy for the four cups of wine Light, you know? Do you start with light heavy? Do you have a strategy?

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:01:49

Yes. So it's going to be a little convoluted, but my answer is yes, and my strategy is to drink what's around the house, and what I mean by that is as follows I do not hardcore plan in advance in terms of I'm going to have this for my first cup, this for my second cup, heavy, then light rosé sparkling. I don't plan like that. I basically have a bunch of bottles in my house that I'm like ready, going to drink for Pesach, and this year I'm going to be away, so even more so like I'm going to whatever I'm going to have.

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:02:18

I'm going to have with me.

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:02:19

That's it and and. And. A lot of times, like my wife and I'll go look at the wine, and a lot of times she'll be like let's have a rosé for the first cup. I'm like sure, these are our four or five rosés, so it's, and then it'll kind of go that way through the rest of the cups. She kind of falls off after the first and doesn't drink any other wine, or maybe a little bit of grape juice, a little wine mixed in, whatever. But like I'll I'll, so I'll finish usually have that first bottle for the first two and then I probably will open a.

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:02:49

I usually open a red for Shulchan Arif. Like I'll have a red for Shulchan Arif and then usually I'll just have that for my last cup and then usually I'll open either another. I'll probably go another red after the. Once I open red. I usually don't go the other way, like I'm not going to finish sweet, like I don't do that and I'll just have the reds. But it's really about whatever is around. I don't have hardcore planning in advance. I don't have. Like you know, I wrote it, write it down what glass I'm having, which bottle. Like I don't. I don't really do it that way.

S Simon Jacob: 2:03:17

Okay. So the second question is do you have any suggestions for those wines, though? It's really whatever you have in your house, but go ahead.

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:03:26

Absolutely. So I will tell you what I've been having, what I know for sure that I love to have. I like to have like Yardane Brut Rose, it's always a bottle that I like to have. Like yardane bruit rose, it's always a bottle that I like to have for the dalicosos. Um, whatever vintage they have, as long as it's not shmita, um, I'm happy to have. I love having that for the dalicosos, especially the first two. It's kind of like gets you going with the bubbles and everything. So like I kind of like that one.

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:03:47

Um this year, some of the roses that I've tried that I happen to really like already so far. Um, I know my wife loves the tour and it's because the tour is like kind of on the sweet end, um, so if she picks that we're gonna, we're gonna have that um, so tour is a good one. Um, I had like the capsana rosette this year. I thought was really nice also. Um, I also have actually for I usually don't you don't have to write this, but I usually don't love this bottle but the Sheila Rosé this year was very good, it's really nice. So I would say you could do those three. In terms of the reds, reds are very subjective, because some people like to have old French, some people like to have big Israeli because of Israel. I'll stick to my Rosé recommendations and let everyone pick their own rats on their own.

S Simon Jacob: 2:04:39

Okay Cool, this really isn't applicable. Well, it is applicable to you. Is there a difference between the first Seder and the second Seder?

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:04:54

No, really no, honestly no, I don't think I approach them differently. I really approach them with the same mindset a lot of times. The second seder will be easier to pick because the first cup will be basically whatever's open from the earlier meal, if there's anything open, so it's very I'm very nonchalant about it. I try to, like you know, enjoy all the wine that I'm going to have with me. I'm going to enjoy, right. So, like whether I have them in a meal at the Seder, or whether I have them Friday night at Shops Calamay or whether I have them at, like, a day meal, I know that these are wines that I've picked because I want to enjoy them, and whether I have them at the Seder or whether I have another meal, I'm not super particular about it.

S Simon Jacob: 2:05:42

Okay, so I have one last question. All right, of course, any special customs or experiences that you guys have at your Seder that's different and fun and unusual, or at a Seder that you've, you know, different and fun and unusual, or at a Seder that you've experienced in the past, go ahead.

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:05:59

So it's a good question. It's so funny because my, my daughter, is in first grade and they asked her Maura's asked her this same question like what do we do special at our Seder? And we were like thinking about it and going through it and deciding it's like I wouldn't say we have any like, like special, like oh well, we came from this town in Europe and in this town they do this Minhug. Like we don't have that, like I don't have a crazy useless background anyway. So like the one thing that we do is like our family is that like the Makos like really come to life.

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:06:29

So, like, when we do the Makos, we try and like either someone will will like wear a mask for like one of the animals and, like you know, the kids will like pretend they're one of the wild animals or like will like pour like a cup of red, like something It'd be like oh, it's blood, and then they'll have a white one next to it. Like we try and really bring the macros to life, because that's like it's like the part where the kids can like, almost like act it out a little bit, like I know, for when we get to the bar out, we like throw mini marshmallows at each other. We've been doing that for years, like that's our hail. So so like um, we, we just try and bring the macos to life. Very much so, um, and but other than that, I think we have a pretty standard satyr.

S Simon Jacob: 2:07:10

I don't know nothing like crazy special sounds cool, sounds cool and I love the idea of we have a good time I will tell you that yeah, well, that's that's important and it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be about getting kids to ask questions and for them to participate in it, and it's not about this, isn't about having a fancy meal, it's about having a meaningful meal. So you're 100, right, right?

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:07:33

I don't like to. I don't like to like speak to the kids, right, like I wanted them to be, like I want them. I almost like kind of take a backseat like, and then I'm like all right, guys, you're up. Whatever you guys want to say, wherever you want to say it, like it's your Seder, like let us know, you know so. So that's kind of try and do that as much as I possibly can.

S Simon Jacob: 2:07:52

Ari, I want to thank you. This is a time of the year that's really tough for everybody and everybody's rushing to get stuff in place for Pesach. Thank you for taking the time to speak to me, my pleasure.

Ari Lockspeiser: 2:08:07

Anything you need, I'm always happy to help. I'm still trying to get there to stroll so we can hang out together. When I get there, you're going to be the first person to message that I'm coming.

S Simon Jacob: 2:08:17

Good afternoon, Jerome Parnes. So I've been asking a bunch of different people all over the world four questions. I thought it was appropriate for Pesach four questions, Okay. So here goes. Sure, I'm going to shoot for the first one. Here goes. The first one is do you have a Pesach strategy for the four cups of wine?

Jerome Parness: 2:08:45

Like how you know starting with a rosé or heavy or whatever. Yes, I do not start with heavy. I actually. It's a little bit of a story how I start out, and I think it was in 1988. When did Craig put out his black 88 something?

S Simon Jacob: 2:09:05

like that. I think 88.

Jerome Parness: 2:09:09

I saw it in my local wine store and I had just recently discovered his wines and I said, oh my God, what is this? So I said I'm going to try this for Pesach and it blew me away. It was not a heavy wine, it was absolutely delicious, easy drinking, a hint of sweetness and beautiful fruit, quality, elegant wine. So when he went out of business I had like a case and you know, over 12 or six or eight years I got, I finished it and couldn't find any more black Muscat for my first coast. It was my first coast until Herzl came out with a Jeunesse black Muscat.

Jerome Parness: 2:10:11

In terms it has a lot of similar taste, not the same quality, but I've been making kiddush on that and the philosophy is is really you have to drink Rovekos? I have a reasonable size like a six or eight ounce wine glass that I use for the Arba Kuk and that was a tradition in our family that I got from my parents and I could not handle a 14.5% alcohol wine and then be sane for the rest of the Seder. You know Roquefort for the Seder. So I decided to go with primarily black muskat. Occasionally I'll do a rosé for the first cup, okay, and then it progresses from there on.

S Simon Jacob: 2:11:09

Progresses meaning that you go up to higher, you know.

Jerome Parness: 2:11:14

Yeah, by the third coast, which is before Shulchan Arayekh. I'm already using a high-quality red general baking and I may even add a white to it for the meal, depending upon what I'm eating at the meal. I generally use a high quality red I. I don't like to get blown out of the water, um, with heavy, um, heavy red tasting wines, so I try to have I'll have a pinot pinot for Hosh Lishi, generally speaking, and that will take me into Shulchan Ovech. The other thing that's interesting is there are what would consider to be. There are what would consider to be, you know, typical heavy California cabs. I don't like that. My palate has grown to favor much softer wines. So a California wine that I have really used for Cauchychee has been br cones cab. They have a 2019 now, which is really elegant and um, um, and so I might use that, um, I would use uh, amia, luce, syrah, green stems or csm, or uh, or, or a Shiloh Fiddler, something like that, or this year I'll probably use SOB.

S Simon Jacob: 2:13:05

Okay, cool. I have another question Is there a difference between your first and second satyrs?

Jerome Parness: 2:13:18

So, um, uh, the answer is probably. I never really thought about that. So, generally speaking, um, I have leftover wine and, uh, I mean the Jeunesse Iesse. If there's any leftover, I'll use that for Kiddush again. Otherwise, I think I'm going to use a sparkling wine for the First Coast, but I find that too filling, too gassy. I'm not crazy about that idea. I will use a rosé for the First Coast there are many out there that I like and the second coast. If I've used black mouscade, I'll go to a rosé. And then the third coast is as I said, and the fourth coast is generally. If anything is left over from the third coast, I'll have for the Fourth Coast, and if not, I will open up something nice also for the Fourth Coast. And then on the second Seder, I'm generally drinking what's been open for 24 hours, and if it's a good wine, I like to see how it progresses, which I generally do anyway, even on Shabbat.

S Simon Jacob: 2:14:57

Cool, I have another question, another question for you, because you've discussed the selection. I would have asked you to tell me some of the selections and what have you, but I think you've discussed that pretty well. The biggest question I have for you is are there any special customs or experiences that you have at your Seder? That's different and fun and that's special Traditions.

Jerome Parness: 2:15:27

So that's traditions. So the wonderful thing about Sadarim is that they're old traditions and that we get from my father, who was a Holocaust survivor, and then we have traditions very. Our oldest child is a girl, is a woman who's um a teacher, very artistic, and she puts together, um, she decorates the ceiling and the table with all kinds of stuff that relate to the seder and it's really amazing. She has this really great idea of when we talk about Yitzhat Mitzrayim and going through the yom suf. So she has created like a blue-green curtain on both sides of the table that out of metallic strips, so it looks like a wall but it's slightly moving, like you expect water might be if it were in a wall. Cool, and it's pretty, very interesting. We also have small grandchildren, so when it comes to like Svardea, she has like these tiny little frogs that she's just throwing out on the table and things like that.

Jerome Parness: 2:17:18

My father it was really maror and haroset, so he made the maror and he made the haroset, and the maror was typical Eastern European white horseradish that really would take the hair off your chest and the idea was, who could eat a kezayet without bursting it, without having tears coming out of their eyes. There was always competition at the house. In the house and my father's kharoset was very interesting and you know the components of it and every year we would come up with an addition to the recipe To make it more interesting we would use. To make it more interesting, we would use my father had a typical heavy red wine, malaga wine, apples, nuts and raisins. Then we started adding in all kinds of other fruits, exotic fruits, then making it more spartic, adding allspice to it and things like that, and then it became a staple after the study for lunch or something like that, as a spread. It would last the whole thing. My kids still ask us for these recipes and they now make them.

S Simon Jacob: 2:18:58

Wow, jerry. I know this is a time that's really pretty tight, with all sorts of things going on for Pesach. Thank you for taking the time to help me with this podcast.

Doc Ralph Madeb: 2:19:09

My pleasure, it's beautiful.

S Simon Jacob: 2:19:11

Regards to Smadar as well and yeah, hag Keshava Sameach, please God. Look forward to seeing you in Israel soon again, please God.

Jerome Parness: 2:19:18

Please God, please God.

S Simon Jacob: 2:19:20

Bye. This is Simon Jacob, Again your host of today's episode of the kosher terwa. I have a personal request no matter where you are or where you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldiers' safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages. I hope you have enjoyed this special extended episode of the Kosher Terroir. It was exciting and incredibly informational for me as well. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you're new to the Kosher Terwa, please check out our many past episodes Chag Pesach, K'sher V'Sameach to you all and thank you for listening to the Kosher Teruah.