Sipping Through Time: Unearthing Israel's Ancient Grapes and Modern Wine Wonders

S. Simon Jacob: 0:09

Welcome to The Kosher Terroir. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, I ask that, wherever you are, please take a moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all of our hostages. Some good friends visiting from the US gathered together in Israel with me to visit some local wineries From Baltimore, Maryland. Kenny Friedman, the wine writer, promoter and social media influencer, joined us with his wife and daughter. From New York, Dr. Samuel Soffer, the social media wine enthusiast, joined us with his son.

S. Simon Jacob: 0:53

The following episode of The Kosher Terroir is an interesting educational conversation and wine tasting with Dr Shivi Drori, the head winemaker at Gváot Winery, and his wine consultant, Yiftach Lustig. Dr Drori is an agronomist and researcher in Viniculture and Anology at Ariel University, where he has spearheaded a research study recovering approximately 60 ancient varieties of wine grapes from the land of Israel in general and Sumeria in particular, from which wines have been produced for thousands of years. Yiftach Lustig is an Italian-trained winemaker who has worked around the globe, as well as in Israel's Midbar winery and his latest project, the Mitzpe winery, down in Mitzpe Ramon, Israel. These two exceptional winemakers shared with us their personal views and some of their latest wine releases, as well as tasting some incredible wines they are working on for the future. Their conversation was so interesting, especially with the questions and insights from both Sam and Kenny. If you're commuting in your car, please focus on the road and enjoy. If you're home, please choose a delicious kosher Israeli wine and sit back, listen in and enjoy.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 2:29

I'm Shivi Drori. I'm an owner and winemaker here, so a partner here in Volet Winery. I have a PhD from the Hebrew University in Plant Science and recent years I'm a professor at Ariel University, trying, I would say, to establish a wide research in wine and grape wine in Israel. It's new.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 3:04

It was not something that you can actually speak about. Now we're establishing the Samsung Family Grape and Wine Research Center. It's a big initiative. We have five PhDs as PIs, as principal investigators, so five different labs working on various aspects of grape and wine. My specific I would say my main topic is the ancient grape vines of Israel. Starting 2011, we started a big expedition to collect and characterize the ancient grape vines. It's a very general term. It means that we were looking for anything that's indigenous to Israel.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 3:59

There were very, very few when we started about 20 varieties that were mainly table grapes, kept by the Arab population for centuries. The Arabs actually made the transition from grapevine to olive. It was done many, many hundreds of years ago because of the prohibition of wine consumption by Islam. Before that, israel was actually a very big wine country, exporting, producing, drinking. Of course, commerce was very, very much based on wine. When the Muslims conquered the area, it was still not as prohibited as it was. Later, the 13th century, became very, very bad, I would say.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 4:55

for the farmers it was actually banned and the vineyards were uprooted, the wine presses were destructed or transferred or changed into oil presses. Basically, the wine industry was destroyed.

S. Simon Jacob: 5:18

In the 1300s.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 5:20

Yeah, from the 1300s, from the 13th century, it was the Mamluk era, and then the Turks came in. There were no Turks here, they were Ottoman. But when they came in, they just, they weren't really destroying anything, but they did not build anything. It continued deteriorating gradually, gradually, except for very few areas like Jerusalem. They built actually the wall of Jerusalem that we know now, it was not built by David. Okay, it's the Ottomans and certain additional places, but other than that they just neglected the whole country. Basically, there was no population.

Yiftach Lustig: 6:05

The hills here are filled with ancient wine wine presses Just over here you have a wine that would probably make you 50,000 locals here.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 6:21

I think less, but very small but equal.

S. Simon Jacob: 6:30

It's almost everywhere. You walk Every mountain top.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 6:34

Every mountain top, at the one At least one. You can see them changing through areas by the technology. You can see by the carving in the stone what was the technology they were using. Baron Rochoux started the new wine industry in 1880, but unfortunately he didn't see fit to use the traditional varieties that grew here. It makes a lot of sense, actually, because Is it French and they wanted to make Bordeaux.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 7:07

Yeah, not just that, he actually sent here specialists and when they saw what's going on in the vineyards here they said look, that's not professional. No wine will come out of this, no real wine. Even if there were a few good varieties that are suitable for wine production, they were grown in such a bad manner that a lot of spoilage bacteria a lot of.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 7:35

It's ethic acid going around in the air. They said, okay, that's not the way you do wine. Let's bring good wine grapes, let's make some good wines. That's a pity because it took us more than 100 years like 120 or 30 years to find the potential of the local wine varieties. So I'll go back to my work.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 8:03

There were very, very few efforts before I started just to characterize a little bit the things that were still here grown by the Arabs. But when I started I said, okay, let's hypothesize that. Actually I had a few assumptions One, that they did good wines in ancient times. If they did good wines in ancient times, they definitely didn't do them from the remaining 20 varieties, which are basically table grapes, so we hypothesized that there were many more that were neglected because of the ban. And another assumption was that, because grapevine is very resilient and farmers are very smart, some of these varieties may have survived all of this period, and we were right.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 9:00

But finding them took a lot of effort. It meant that we need to go by foot all over the country in deserted areas and find these neglected varieties. Then we need to actually see that they are indigenous varieties. We need to do genetic analysis and then we need to pick them up and put them in our collection to see what they are worth. Okay, if they're actually bearing grapes at all, and if so they're white, red, suitable for wine production. Can they accumulate sugar at all? Do they accumulate sufficient aroma compounds and acids, and so on? So that took a long time.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 9:42

Gradually, we collected almost 100 varieties indigenous varieties. We collected more than 650 grapes from vines from the wilds, and after analyzing them, we have in our hands today almost 100 unique varieties, which is a big amount. Out of them, we selected 12 varieties that, in our point of view, can be very good for wine production, and in order to put them back into the Israeli wine industry, we need to clean them out of viruses. This means a lot of work. It means that we need to take tip of the chute size of 0.2 millimeters. You speak inches.

Yiftach Lustig: 10:38

Yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 10:39

No, no, no.

Sam Soffer: 10:40

Hundreds of we know it millimeters, hundreds of an inch, okay.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 10:43

Hundreds of an inch, okay. Pick it up under a microscope and sterile conditions, put it on a special plate in tissue culture, throw it back into a whole plant and then check it for virus. It takes a lot of time, and then again we succeeded already in four varieties to clean them. So they're back and people can just order them now and start planting them. These varieties have new names, like Yael, be'er. Hebrew names, oh wow, and not the Arab chain names like Jendali that was initially called Dali, which also doesn't sound very Israeli, but it was Israeli or Bituni, so this is Bituni.

Yiftach Lustig: 11:38

This is a red grape variety, an ancient red grape variety that she rediscovered and rediscovered and we're working on it. One challenge of it is because this was a table grape for a very long time. First of all, it's a really massive grape. It's a massive grape.

Kenney Friedman: 12:01

And it was a table grape.

Yiftach Lustig: 12:02

So it's farmed to be table grape, which is not exactly what you're looking for in a wine grape, but still we're working on it for a couple of years and I call it the Israeli Pinot Noir because there's something. Pinoy-y or complexed.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 12:20

It's not what it is.

Yiftach Lustig: 12:24

Even the color looks nice.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 12:26

It's very Pinoy-y Pinoy-y. Yeah, it smells like Pinot. The grapes are actually not so big if they're grown right. So, if they're grown by the Arabs as table grapes, they actually want them to be as big as possible, as beautiful as possible, but if you grow them on a vineyard for winemaking, you can actually really, really restrict the amount of water that you give and restrict the amount of berries or grapes that you grow, and they will be even better.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 13:03

But this is sufficiently, I would say, rich for me to be a good wine, an interesting wine that actually changes the very regular portfolio of Chardonnay, cabernet, merlot and so on.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 13:22

This is different, as a burgundy succeeded in producing an amazing industry based on a grape that actually is very poor, like Pinoy-noir, and makes brownish orange wines that are basically not very beautiful for most people, for most people, but for me they are the most amazing wines on earth, so not everything that is shiny, bright, purple, deep red are the best wines, and that is what provides. Yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 14:07

So this is. So the question I have for you with this is this is still You're still experimenting as to how to grow these the best way possible.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 14:18

Unfortunately, we cannot experiment yet on how to grow it. Just now I entered the first plants into the nursery to be able to produce plants, so only this year we can actually plant it. Until now, the last seven years we were buying them from Palestinian growers and grow them around Bethlehem. Why were they growing them?

Yiftach Lustig: 14:44

Because almost back to 30 years ago around.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 14:48

Bethlehem there was a wine industry. They were Christians, actually, and they were old. Okay, they're not there anymore. Yeah, it's not very pleasant for a Christian to be in Palestinian authority today. So basically, they're growing as table grapes today. And we found a few good farmers that can sell us for now, until we have our own, and this comes actually.

S. Simon Jacob: 15:16

So you can't wait yeah, I can't wait until you have got the bitunee growing the way you want it to be grown Wow.

Yiftach Lustig: 15:27

One of the things that separates the vote lineery and is very important for us and we actually see it within the way we do the job is we control. We do have our own vineyards, we control the farm making there, and there's this big difference when the wine makers, the wine grower, between them working in contracts with the outside farmers, and we're interested and are interested not completely in line, and so for us, taking care of old plants, planting new ones, experimenting, all of this is done in-house, and it's done in-house because of Sheevee, because he's a winemaker, but he's also a scientist, he's also an explorer, and he's got me.

Yiftach Lustig: 16:16

I'm crazy, and I'm just you give me a crazy idea and I go, oh, that's it. I think we can do that.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 16:23

This is great. Yeah, it is, and it takes time to evolve in the glass, so just let it sit.

S. Simon Jacob: 16:28

Yeah, no, I know I'm watching. I'm watching the aromas are coming off of it. It's just awesome.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 16:34

And it's nice. It's more reddish, okay, it's like more cherry, strawberry, strawberry, a little bit notes of earthiness, floral, very nice, really reminds us of Pinot Noir. But when we go, I would say, 10 years further, I'm sure we will be able to actually pin it down to the essence of its real, real characteristics.

Sam Soffer: 17:05

Reminds me a little bit of a pinotage.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 17:07

A pinotage is usually much darker, yeah, but it and much cooler in body. Coffee driven Coffee driven yeah, but it is, in a way I would say, under. Under the spectrum, a spectrum of granache, pino, nebbiolo, somewhere there. Nebbiolo that grows high in the mountains, like Valtelina areas like this Acidity grows on rock. So this is the region where this falls and it's very elegant. For me, it's the most suitable wine to drink in Israel in the summer as a red, because you cannot drink a heavy Petit.

S. Simon Jacob: 17:55

Verdeau In.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 17:56

Israel, you just fall down.

Kenney Friedman: 18:00

It has Italian character to it.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 18:03

It's only 12% alcohol, so again.

S. Simon Jacob: 18:07

And.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 18:08

It has the tendency.

Yiftach Lustig: 18:10

Well, if I just can add one thing that's really important about it, all the great varieties that we know are Italian and French great varieties that we've brought here, which is a very different climate. This is a great variety that was born in this climate. So it's resistance to the ills of the Torah what characterizes Israel. It's a lot more resistant to it than let's say the French varieties, the diseases, the heat, the whole vegetative cycle of this is very different than anything I've seen in Europe.

Sam Soffer: 18:47

Right. Actually, I have a question. When you do genetic testing to try and figure out the actual origin, what specifically are you doing Seriously?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 18:57

Yeah.

Sam Soffer: 18:57

Seriously.

Yiftach Lustig: 19:00

You have a very big question. You've just asked.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 19:05

There are two ways to do genetic analysis, basically, okay. One is like they do it in forensics. It means that you take markers. Let's say every one of us has specific regions in his genome that are different from each other, even from a twin, if he's not an identical twin, okay. So that's enough, if you do like 22 of these in order to be able to statistically be certain that these are two different individuals. So this is one way of describing, and I would say, fingerprinting, a variety. So that's the easy way. It takes very short time. We can do it in lab, in my own lab. It's very easy and easy.

Kenney Friedman: 19:56

You have to have the equipment you have to use a PCR.

Sam Soffer: 19:58

Yeah, pcr yeah.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 19:59

PCR is good, no only PCR. And then you have to do a sequencing, but a sequencing in a very, very fast and I would say not very informative manner. You just have to know the length of these areas Seconds, that's it.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 20:18

You don't have to actually know the sequence. And then there is the genomic analysis. Genomic analysis means that you actually analyze the whole genome. Okay, that means you use 50 million base pairs of genetic data. That's a lot. It's just one-sixth of a human being, but it's still a lot. And then you have to compare between the sequence of this individual and 100 more, or 3000 more in our case. Okay, and that takes a lot of time.

Sam Soffer: 20:57

But we did it, you did it crisper or some of those sorts of technologies, no need for that.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 21:01

So I try and no, the wine industry is not Tronicryo is not receptive to any genetic modifications.

Sam Soffer: 21:12

unfortunately, Because that can speed up. You can look for specific sequences.

Yiftach Lustig: 21:17

So there's also. I remember the first time I went, the first time I was giving a lecture to these students, he asked me to give a lecture about Italy. So we're sitting down and he's telling me about this new variety that he showed me the leaf and I go. But that's not biolo. And he goes, what do you mean? It's like go to Amphilography and you see that the way that the leaf is grown is very, very similar to no biolo. So Well, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not.

Yiftach Lustig: 21:48

Yeah, it's not the way the men.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 21:52

Amphilography is the description of morphology that actually gives you identity for a variety.

S. Simon Jacob: 21:58

That's the old way of doing things.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 22:00

It's still done today, but it's deteriorating.

Yiftach Lustig: 22:03

It's not scientific.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 22:04

It gives you a hint. It's very subjective. They try to give it a lot of differences and angles.

Sam Soffer: 22:13

It's very different to make science out of it.

Yiftach Lustig: 22:15

I have a laboratory also it was our best year. Different world what.

Sam Soffer: 22:19

I have a laboratory also, but I'm a doctor, but I have a lab, ah, okay. Thanks the way we got around a lot of these things. We've looked at 50,000 genes. You can use now new technology to really isolate specifically what you're looking for in the much more time.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 22:34

Exactly Targeted, sequencing, correct. So we're using every technique possible. Let's switch wine and then I'll tell you about our new endeavor. If anyone wants to switch his glass, just tell us and we'll switch. If not, we're continuing to Pinot Noir. I'll say a few words about Pinot Noir generally in this region. Pinot Noir is a tricky variety in Israel. Yeah, that's the least.

Yiftach Lustig: 23:06

The tricky variety, no matter what. No matter what, it's tricky.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 23:10

It's not very easy to grow it. The main reason is it is very sensitive to drought conditions. So if you give it to a much water, you get something very uninteresting. If you give it to less water, it starts to shrink. There's a very, very delicate balance there.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 23:32

Actually, when it grows in Burgundy or other areas, it's usually it does get quite a big amount of rain and it has the ability to actually thrive even if it gets too much water. But it gets watery if it gets too much water. So big years in these regions would be years that didn't have too much rain. Here we never have rain. So the control of the whole thing is water supply, watering and a very accurate amount, and that's a big challenge, very big challenge. A few years back I did not produce Pinot Noir because it came so dark that people mistakenly thought it's a Syrah. The only reason was that we had a very strong drought and heat period, like a heat wave, for almost two weeks, and they just started shriveling. We picked them too late, that's it. So it is very it's unforgiving.

Yiftach Lustig: 24:45

It's an unforgiving great variety.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 24:50

So, as you see, the color is very similar to Bituni and that's a standard Pinot Noir. It has a very nice color but it's very light and when you get, if you get in a tasting, great, great. When you get a Pinot Noir in a blind tasting, you always know it's a Pinot Noir, because Granash has a very, very different aroma, so it's quite easy to discriminate between them.

Kenney Friedman: 25:30

Your ultimate, you're driving the Bituni, especially when you get to do yourself the Pinot Noir style.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 25:37

Yeah, we call it the Israeli Pinot.

Yiftach Lustig: 25:41

I remember the Bituni 18, that was on a blind tasting with Burgundy.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 25:47

By the way, getting the Bituni to where it is, it's not very easy.

S. Simon Jacob: 25:52

The fermentation yeah, I've never tasted it like this.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 25:54

Yeah, the fermentation done here is ridiculous. We ferment them whole berries and we actually need to put someone into the tank to break the grapes with the legs and wearing plastic bags Really, yeah, it's very, very different from a regular winemaking.

Sam Soffer: 26:19

It's an ancient grape and ancient technology.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 26:23

It does not go through regular steamer pressures wineries. It just can't Okay.

Kenney Friedman: 26:28

so why you can have so.

Sam Soffer: 26:31

The berries are too big to go through the holes of the. You couldn't put them on a whole cluster, just clasium we do it almost like that, but then we ferment it partially.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 26:41

It's called a carbonic fermentation. Carbonic fermentation.

Sam Soffer: 26:44

Carbonic fermentation.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 26:46

Carbonic fermentation we leave it. I don't know all these flies here.

S. Simon Jacob: 26:53

This is the.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 26:54

Bituni, and then we can get much more floral aromas out of it and it goes to the lighter but rich area and it doesn't fall into extracted to dull place For the Pinot, which is a Shibizanai passion project.

Yiftach Lustig: 27:19

we love Pinot. If it wasn't our vineyard, if it wasn't completely in, our control we would not make.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:28

Pinot, you and Yacovoria that's his dream is making Pinot.

Yiftach Lustig: 27:34

In order to we either do it well or we don't do it at all. So the only reason that we're making Pinot is because we planted it and we invested in it we would not buy grapes from anyone.

Sam Soffer: 27:47

Not from the Pinot it shows. This is my favorite Israeli Pinot by this every year. It's a beautiful, beautiful Pinot. I have been sitting in a cellar. They age beautiful. Oh yeah, these are the best. There's no other Pinot in Israel, yeah.

Yiftach Lustig: 28:03

There you go.

Sam Soffer: 28:05

They've become a little expensive in America.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 28:07

Oh yeah, tell me about it. I was not there for four years, they're probably retailing now for $60 a bottle.

Sam Soffer: 28:13

$60. $50. $58. Yeah, I'm serious.

S. Simon Jacob: 28:17

Wow, where's your cut?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 28:20

No, no we did not get that. I used to buy them for $40. That's the price I know, but not anymore. I'll tell you why.

Sam Soffer: 28:23

Because, we didn't do them every year. So he can actually Pull back because a lot of people are looking for that. His own method of extraction?

Yiftach Lustig: 28:38

Yeah, I can tell you the harvest of the Pinot Pinot is just not forgiving in the vineyard in any way, and not also the window of the harvest, the window of picking. It is very, very, very, very small, so we have to be with our finger on the pulse. We had Pinot.

Sam Soffer: 29:00

No, but it will be this Pinot, the Gavale Pinot.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 29:03

It gives you a pleasant drink without being shallow. It's rich, very rich, but not too heavy. The elegance here. That's the point. You can actually drink a bottle of that and feel that you had a very pleasant worth all over the bottle. So that's the point.

Sam Soffer: 29:26

We've done that many times. La Caim, La Caim.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:28

La Caim Taube. La Taube, that's really cool, Excellent. It's interesting to compare them so directly because it actually looked more Pinot-like the Bituni, until you have the.

Sam Soffer: 29:42

Pinot. This is a very good Pinot.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 29:44

Yeah, I know I know it depends on the year. It's a very good Pinot.

Sam Soffer: 29:50

I'm curious to see, when you grow the grapes here, the Bituni, whether you can get this level of concentration.

Yiftach Lustig: 29:55

I think so.

Sam Soffer: 29:58

The difference is the Bituni doesn't quite have the concentration that this has, I agree.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 30:02

This has the tannins, the very supple tannins, that are very very enjoyable. The Bituni does not have it yet, and it will once we grow it. This is exactly what we're looking for.

Sam Soffer: 30:19

When you market the new Bituni, you have to make it very clear to people that it was the first vintage made here.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 30:25

Not only that but the grapes that are cleaned from viruses. They will be much better colored and much better flavored Awesome.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:38

Thank you. Okay, so that's it. What's next? Thank you very much I'm joking.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 30:42

After the Pinot, you know something.

S. Simon Jacob: 30:46

If that was it and it was finished, it would be worth coming.

Sam Soffer: 30:53

It's good to get blitzed by 11 o'clock in the morning.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 31:21

It's interesting what we will answer. What is?

Yiftach Lustig: 31:23

it If you take a cold climate variety and you put it in a warm climate, it reacts to it. This is a warm climate variety, so it can remain fresh. That's what I think is its beauty. I get that a lot of the time. How's the heat?

Kenney Friedman: 31:44

here for you Perfect, perfect, yep, what you're talking about. I'm going to re-ask the question now.

Yiftach Lustig: 31:53

It's actually the fact that it is a warm climate variety that allows it to be not over the top. It's not a transplant. It's a local, it's a valedict, valedict, great variety.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 32:13

For me, when we speak about Mediterranean varieties, we're mistakenly speaking about South France varieties, which are not really Rome varieties.

Yiftach Lustig: 32:26

Yeah, I would say Southern Rome, the Nice, Provence, the.

Kenney Friedman: 32:32

New Regions Syrah.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 32:36

These are really European varieties. They are not hot climate varieties. I mean it comes to be warm there once in a while, but not like here. From March we're starting to be warm, so it's very different. When we look at the varieties that are indigenous to Israel, most of them, first of all, are white, which is very interesting. Secondly, the reds are mostly light red, light red, not very dark. Only two or three varieties in the whole collection that have very dark, rich tannic and pigmented characteristics. That's because the warm climate does not favor too much tannin and too much anthocyanins.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 33:35

It's very hard for a grave man to do that in this hot climate as a regular thing In Israel. In order to grow these varieties, we do a lot of tricks, the transplants, but the varieties that grow here, what was, I would say, selected into them was drought, stress, salt stress, I would say resistance to very limey soils. That's the point there not making very dark graves. People that grew them first of all wanted them to be able to stand and thrive in very harsh conditions. That was the main breeding purpose. Okay.

Kenney Friedman: 34:31

Shmonaisli, shmonaisli, we sleep.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 34:34

Shmonaisli, Shmonaisli. Okay, we're going to taste Merlot. So basically, I think that wines in the hot region basically will be lighter on the color. Basically we'll have less tannins than what you expect to have in colder areas okay, cooler areas, but they will be very rich. If they're good, they're going to be very rich and if they're good, they will keep the acid, even though that's not the basic characteristic you find in most graves in hot climates.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 35:13

Freshness, Freshness if they're good, you'll find them fresh, you'll find them rich. That's the characteristics we're looking for in, not extraction, not darkness. Okay, that's basically.

Kenney Friedman: 35:29

Here's another question for you. Okay, I'll give you two more, because you're a businessman also. You're not just a winemaker, you're not just a scientist.

Yiftach Lustig: 35:38

No, no, no, no, no, he's not a good businessman?

Kenney Friedman: 35:41

Maybe he's not, and that's my question. He's not a farmer it's limiting him. Well, because you're making grapes that are not. You're making varieties that are not necessarily People. Don't go into a wine store and ask for bituny. People ask for cab, but you get away from that. How do you balance what you want and what we'll sell? There's a lot more production of the cab, the whole bituny program is less than 3,000 bottles, right In 100,000 bottles. But obviously the passion is pinot bituny, indigenous. No.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 36:16

That's fine. That's my passion. Passion is what I'm making, like what you do for a living.

Kenney Friedman: 36:24

A lot of things.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 36:26

Huh yeah, a lot of things.

Kenney Friedman: 36:29

I'm. I'm a chiropractor, physical therapist, great. And I'm also a wine writer.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 36:35

Okay, that's great how much of your time you Put into one writing Right small amount. Okay, that and what? What do you?

Kenney Friedman: 36:44

but that's why, that's what my passion is great, that's the hope, that's the answer. Right, I Understand it, I understand it first hand, so yeah, we do a lot of Cabernet Sauvignon.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 36:55

We do very good Cabernet Sauvignon. We do a lot of Sauvignon Blanc and Chardonnay, but I'm more interested about the Jindali fermenting in my Terracotta fora right then in the Chardonnay, fermenting in a stainless steel right.

Kenney Friedman: 37:14

This is 2018 Merlot.

Yiftach Lustig: 37:21

Melozo so yeah, I'll tell you a story about how he met when I was in Jerusalem. Was a head somebody. I came here when we just became friends and we did a barrel tasting and I've tasted them on the XM.

Kenney Friedman: 37:35

Merlot. Is a problem in Israel because a lot of the wine acres.

Yiftach Lustig: 37:39

Well, wine growers treat it like a Cabernet, and it's not it's a much more unforgiving great, for I even cast and Want to think I'm really happy about it. One thing I'm really passionate about even though it's not our best seller and it's a very limited release is I'm really proud of our own.

Sam Soffer: 37:58

I think that's we modest and say tough five, I'm not just saying it because I'm here in this one or this is the finest Merlot made in Israel and it's interesting because you make it on the look, the look, the entry level, entry level wine I've been buying a few years and I've posted about it. I've written about it that this is from what, for me at least, the best Merlot made in Israel.

Yiftach Lustig: 38:19

The amount of effort put in.

Sam Soffer: 38:21

You know this, merlot, for the price point.

Yiftach Lustig: 38:24

You don't make it great what you want to do is Merlot, is you would not believe what goes on the scene, because we're very very proud of this Merlot.

Sam Soffer: 38:33

Yeah, you should be it's. It's an excellent effect because you don't have a go from it. This is the entry level where I always tell people, because it sells in New York, you can buy this bottle for now it's a little more $28. Used to be $20 $22 right but it's still. It's still for that, for the value of that kind of wine.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 38:49

You know, sideways movie? Yes, of course, that's it, no more.

Kenney Friedman: 38:54

That really it hurt them, or?

Sam Soffer: 38:56

low market.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 38:58

You know it's the right area, I love.

Kenney Friedman: 39:01

Merlot.

Sam Soffer: 39:02

I love. Some of the best wides of the world are projects I love.

Kenney Friedman: 39:05

I think a lot of the people that think they like have would prefer Merlot Well they don't even know they're drinking Merlot.

Sam Soffer: 39:10

They're drinking. They're drinking these wines to the right bag.

Yiftach Lustig: 39:18

The problem with it is normally a. Mid-range cab. Let's say and then most of it is somewhere in the Average and you have some cab really good, some cab horrible the thing about Merlot is it is really binary. It's either brilliant, right is one either wonderful, amazing and tasty, or it's disgusting.

Kenney Friedman: 39:41

There's a lot of a lot of bad.

S. Simon Jacob: 39:44

And the ship is about 90% to the disgusting and 10% wrong.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 39:50

And now we will pour the new one, so we can Compare okay.

Kenney Friedman: 39:57

I found the easy. I found 18. I said the 18 vintage in Israel was a very good vintage.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 40:04

No found like I would say here that we had a few varieties that were very good. Yeah and a few that were Very late to be picked.

Kenney Friedman: 40:16

Here's what I would say. I would say that I found that, maybe because it was a cool year, a lot of not such great producers made better wine. You make great wine every year, producers that don't had better years in 18.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 40:28

Yeah, it's more forgiving.

Sam Soffer: 40:30

I think it was more forgiving. Your 18 Pino. Yeah, like your 18 Pino, not much. Okay, interesting 18 for Israel. It was a good year, a lot of good ones in Israel but your Pino, that year it was good.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 40:53

But it wasn't. It didn't have the brilliant 17 was a better year because of. Definitely one of the years that it was very. It went to the point of leather and the earthiness without having the Beautiful perfume.

Yiftach Lustig: 41:14

First time I came here. I try to validate things a little and to this day and I will not forgive him for that Feel, feel, that feel the acid here, which is natural acid.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 41:25

Mm-hmm, this is a lot of fruit. This is a very long line, okay. The aroma and and fruitiness in the mouth is Kilometer and that's, that's very good. Merlot, okay.

Yiftach Lustig: 41:41

First, on I can do the wandering. I did a barrel tasting with him 2010, 20, maybe 2009, and we tried a couple barrels he had three barrels of very, very specific Merlot. He knows it's because we fight about it. So this day I wanted one barrel as a one barrel buckling.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 42:03

And I put it into my side and he put it put it into a blend Touch my line Meloids.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 42:16

Merlot in this region. If it's grown properly, you can pick it up with pH of 3.25, which is ridiculously low. It means that has very good acidic build and If it's grown lower the altitude, the alcohol that should be about 13, 13.5, and it's. We never pick it late, it's always. We always pick it quite early To get, to keep the acidity, to keep, to keep the elegance. If you, if you keep it more, you will get much more darker and it will become an imitation of Cabernet souvenir in.

Yiftach Lustig: 43:01

In general it's, there's all. There's a game between north Israel and and shaman Jerusalem Hills in terms of the cabin Merlot. Over there the cab is very expressive and the Merlot is very subdued and over here it's a little bit of an inversion of that, and I'm talking in road strokes. Really depends on the grower and specific site.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 43:24

Actually, if there was a market for Melo, we would grow here the majority of Merlot.

Yiftach Lustig: 43:30

Yeah, the Merlot we here is much better than I want to know, right?

Kenney Friedman: 43:35

The vineyard dance is what blend. The vineyard dance Depends on the year, but it's basically a blend of a lot of the fever, though.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 43:45

Yeah, some cabinet union usually, and it could be the difference between, like, 40% Petit Verdeaux, 40% Cabernet Sauvignon, or 50% Petit Verdeaux, 30% Cabernet Sauvignon, and the rest Could be Merlot and the Cabernet Funk. Sometimes they even put a touch of Pinot Noir in. So it's, it's a blend and it really depends on the year. Is the?

Kenney Friedman: 44:09

vineyard here. He's our, he's with us.

Sam Soffer: 44:12

Should be. The vineyard dance is Mavuscio.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 44:16

Not all of it not all right reduce a specific amount.

Sam Soffer: 44:24

The Merlot is still not Mavuscio. Right Melo is not Mavuscio.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 44:29

We make batches for the American Market of Mavuto.

Kenney Friedman: 44:34

I don't really like it. I know Because in general don't like to cook your wife In America, now that the Cab Sauv the regular entry level.

Sam Soffer: 44:47

The entry level Cabernet they're bringing now is only only the Mavuscio one. I can't find the non-Mavuscio Regular Cab Sauv and I don't. It's not quite the same wine.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 45:00

Even though we do a very Good bechewel.

Sam Soffer: 45:03

Yeah, yeah I know, but it's not the same.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 45:06

The reason I don't do be sure for all of it is because it changes the one right, but the Merlot in America, the ones not. Mavuscio. Okay, the ones I said.

S. Simon Jacob: 45:17

This is your glass.

Sam Soffer: 45:21

Let's do it.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 45:23

Okay, so this is winner. Dance 2022 Marcellan. Marcellan's growing here no we had a small amount of Marcellan coming from somewhere else and we thought it could spice the spice up 7% means about Two and a half barrels into the whole blend.

Yiftach Lustig: 45:58

Yeah, more.

Kenney Friedman: 45:59

This is green pepper the. What's talk about the Tver dough in?

Yiftach Lustig: 46:04

Israel. Oh, okay, so.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 46:09

If I had to choose a variety that's the Israeli variety else of my indigenous race, it would be to give her dough. The reason is that it's so versatile, it can actually do very good and do good it means that it gets very good characteristics of the Tver dough in almost every terror in Israel, from the negative to the to the north, and that's unique. It's very, very unique.

Yiftach Lustig: 46:39

It has a very high tolerance for heat. Yeah, a very high.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 46:44

And the reason is the reason is that it's a. It's a very late ripener, which makes it very green and very Tart in Bordeaux. This is why they put it in a very, very small amount into the lens. It's, it's a. It's a colorant more than anything else there, because it has a very high color here in Israel, because it it ripens late. It's great because that's the when the heat goes down, so actually it's ripening area Period is in a more milder Temperatures.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 47:21

So it it really gains amazing complexity, color and everything, and we use this the petit-verdeux in our winery as the main working horse. Okay, it's like 40% of the wine here are petit-verdeux based in the Reds. If I look at it, we planted more petit-verdeux than any other variety in the winery in the last five years. It's it's a acidic.

Yiftach Lustig: 47:54

Carrier. Hey, it brings acidity to the blend a lot of the time of freshness, so that's a backbone Very good damage. Yeah, I'm glad Ken will ask that.

Sam Soffer: 48:05

I never understood why in Bordeaux they can use it in such tiny quantities essentially colors to the white but in israel and there are several people that make a pretty good petit-verdeux.

Yiftach Lustig: 48:14

They can't make it right, but it's interesting.

Sam Soffer: 48:18

I'm glad you asked that, because I never understood that. I thought about that, yeah.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 48:23

We pick it up here. After Sukkot, we're doing it.

Yiftach Lustig: 48:27

Okay, it's interesting very late every year. This is the last.

Kenney Friedman: 48:29

I think it's the last, where it's always the last deal, right.

Sam Soffer: 48:32

You'll never find a France.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 48:35

Yeah, one month after the Covernation meal. It's a lot of time.

Yiftach Lustig: 48:40

A lot of flavor, a lot of color, a lot of fruit, but it doesn't let go of the acidity, which is the the main issue. I use it in terms of balancing everything out and the blend Keeps it, and if you pick it a bit earlier, you don't get too green, which is great.

Sam Soffer: 48:56

What year is this? This is 2020. 2022.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 49:02

This is. It was followed a few, uh, I mean a month ago.

Kenney Friedman: 49:05

Okay so it.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 49:07

It's a baby beautiful.

Sam Soffer: 49:10

It's very tasty, very, very, very elegant so we're gonna go to the Marsala.

Kenney Friedman: 49:15

We had a. We had a go in it one year, um, just in 2022.

Yiftach Lustig: 49:21

I think it was an experiment. We don't like experimenting and uh, but it's not something that we're putting into the video.

Kenney Friedman: 49:33

It was a good experiment. What are you talking about? The?

Sam Soffer: 49:36

Marsala. They made a pure Marsala.

Yiftach Lustig: 49:39

It was an experiment, we we wanted to check it out. We wanted to taste it. It was a great experiment, but I don't think it's gonna work.

Kenney Friedman: 49:49

What failed about it? What about it failed?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 49:53

It doesn't hold the acid.

Yiftach Lustig: 49:55

Yeah, um, it didn't get. It gave us a lot of spicy for great for for the blends, just to get everything.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:04

But it wasn't interesting enough to to marry.

Kenney Friedman: 50:11

Why do you use it in a percentage in the vineyard dance like what is it bringing to this? It gave some spice. When we talk about spice, it could be like tobacco it could be a bit of Green pepper.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 50:24

Not only yeah, maybe some, but more, more like black pepper.

Sam Soffer: 50:28

It would be like.

Kenney Friedman: 50:31

Cinnamon sometimes right, small amount of cinnamon.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 50:34

So that's On us on a low level, because if we put too much of it we would lose the balance.

Sam Soffer: 50:42

You're absolutely tasting in the wine, though.

Kenney Friedman: 50:44

There's, you're absolutely Green. Pepper. I had that.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:54

Is it another direction?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 50:55

because of okay 2021 cab reserve G ludzie neただ.

Yiftach Lustig: 51:03

When you go to Gofna, you usually find out, in terms of percentage, a lot more percentage of our own vineyards. Okay, so one vineyard is right next to Shivi's house. It's called Cab One. We call it Cab One. It's non-irrigated, very old variety. Very old 15, 20 years.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 51:25

Yeah, it's a 22 years old vineyard. It was not irrigated at all the last 12 years, so that's very, very different from others you get a lot of it's a very small production Like it produces nothing but the concentration of it.

Yiftach Lustig: 51:41

It's the best cab I've ever tried in Israel by far like miles.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 51:45

Now let it have some time to develop in the glass. Give it some air.

Kenney Friedman: 51:51

This is 100% cab.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 51:53

Not exactly. We never do 100%, it's 6.

Yiftach Lustig: 51:58

Merlot 6.

Kenney Friedman: 52:00

Merlot.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 52:02

Okay, we always balance, almost ever. I almost never take a single vineyard and bottle it. I always find something unbalanced and try to balance it with something else. It's part of the job.

Kenney Friedman: 52:19

On the bottle. This would never say 6% Merlot, it just says cab. Yeah right.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 52:24

No, you see it behind.

Sam Soffer: 52:25

Even by the rules, though it does say 6% Merlot. If it's less than 15% of something else you can call it Correct, you don't have to say it, right, right.

Yiftach Lustig: 52:34

We want just a. 6% means one barrel In the whole blend. It's just one barrel that I had.

Kenney Friedman: 52:41

One barrel right the ABV, the alcohol. I've always been under the impression that there's tricks to play, I guess for tax reasons. Whatever, it's always honest. The.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 52:58

ABV. But, do you know what I'm talking about? Sanitory to give For tariffs.

Kenney Friedman: 53:02

I'm saying the.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 53:04

If it's very high, people do foilish ticks. Yeah, if it's on the lower side, there's no reason to be honest. But, if you're on a 15.5, in the States it becomes a liquor Right, right right. This is why people take it a bit lower. We never get there, so we don't have the problem. We always pick the grapes around 13.5 alcohol. Sometimes it goes up to 14. That's it.

Kenney Friedman: 53:39

It's funny because a lot of the Italian legalities are all to get the alcohol up and a lot of that has flip-flop now.

Yiftach Lustig: 53:46

Cold climate has a challenge of getting ripeness. So, in cold climate regions Bordeaux, borghenti, it's like.

Kenney Friedman: 53:56

But it's not so much anymore, right.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 53:58

He was a winemaker in.

Kenney Friedman: 54:00

In Italy. I told you.

Yiftach Lustig: 54:03

Getting to the high alcohol percentage means you've done a good job and you've got the grapes ripen. Here it's the other way around.

Kenney Friedman: 54:10

Yeah, the other way around, right.

Yiftach Lustig: 54:12

If I can get a full buggy or fully matured wine at 13%, then I've made it. The less amount of alcohol means the more acidity or the less foilish tick. I didn't have to play with the wine as much.

Kenney Friedman: 54:35

Is there a difference nowadays in Israel in terms of the heat and how it's affecting grapes versus 40, 50 years ago? Is it hotter now as it is?

Sam Soffer: 54:45

everywhere, yeah.

Kenney Friedman: 54:50

So you have the other problem of trying to control the grapes as opposed to what's happening here.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 54:54

Israel is the forefront lab of climate change in the world.

Kenney Friedman: 54:58

The one in the Negev is even more so. Negev is the forefront of what's going to have to happen in Europe? I guess right.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 55:09

Negev is basically the site of climate change for Israel. For Israel. In Israel is the forefront lab for the whole world. We are publishing a lot of papers about the effects of the climate.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 55:26

And there are basically how it changes because of heat accumulation over the years. The basic thing that we see is not the regular temperatures in the regular days they are quite similar to other years but the amount of heat waves and the intensity of the heat waves. That's the point. And if in previous years, like 20 years ago, we had maybe one or two weeks that we had three or four days of heat wave, last year we had three weeks of a heat wave with unwavering 2023 was the hardest harvest I've ever seen.

Yiftach Lustig: 56:12

2023 was the hardest harvest by far. It was very difficult to in a harvest, you have to make plans for next week or the week after that. We had very little leeway because it was very difficult to make a decision today in terms of two days from now, because you didn't know where the vineyard would.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 56:37

The vineyard could either be stuck because of the overheating. It could just close itself and wait, or it could run race to a trepness and that was very tricky. How long is this? In oak it's usually between 16 and 18 months. What?

Sam Soffer: 56:56

kind of oak. It's French or a French.

Kenney Friedman: 57:00

They're generally used barrels.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 57:03

You see, we have a blend of about 30% new and these reserve gofnei. We usually have 50% new and 50% older barrels.

Sam Soffer: 57:16

Do you move the bottle? Do you move it from new oak to?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 57:20

We use a few barrels for the blend.

Sam Soffer: 57:23

Some of them were all the time in the new oak, so it doesn't get overrode.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 57:29

If you get too many new barrels, you will get, like we call it, oak juice.

Yiftach Lustig: 57:36

That's not very pleasant.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 57:38

You have to be very, very careful about that.

S. Simon Jacob: 57:42

There's some more in order to try to make that I think it's more common to find oak juices.

Yiftach Lustig: 57:52

I can tell you for myself. I was in 2016,. I had a harvest in the US and when I landed I went to Napavali for three days. First appointment, friend of a friend, which is Camus. I went there. They make beautiful wine.

S. Simon Jacob: 58:10

I was there for about three hours and said okay, I understand Napavali.

Yiftach Lustig: 58:13

I'm going to Sonoma now because the amount it felt like the same wine in different houses.

Kenney Friedman: 58:25

At Camus.

Yiftach Lustig: 58:27

The. Napakata, napakata and Napakashar mate, it didn't feel like there was any leeway In Sonoma. When you're talking about the Russian river, Natalaxander Valley, which is a lot more commercial wineries, and the Russian river, you do have those avant-garde wine makers that take chances that the I can't even blame that the cost of land in Napakata is so high that they can't take chances on a different style.

Yiftach Lustig: 58:59

They have to make that same buttery chardonnay and same woody cab, which is they make a great cabin, they make a great chardonnay, just not my style, not something I'm interested in. And you move from one region to another.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 59:14

Guys, you don't want anything on the side If you're looking for color and extraction look at it against the white gloss or something.

Kenney Friedman: 59:25

The saloon doors. What are we drinking? Pitch black.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 59:31

It's Iverdó Very, very super dark so producing color is easy if you have a pétir adó. If you have a good pétir adó, the point is not just getting it to extract, but rather have a very specific aroma and the characteristics of the pétir adó, and we call it.

Sam Soffer: 59:54

We call it enquiness. Enquiness.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 59:58

Very dark fruits, it's absolutely good.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:00:02

It's a bit of a palette. It's balanced, it's just a trend.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:00:07

So, you understand. We make this wine for you, not for the market. The market does not appreciate a pétir adó varietó.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:00:17

It doesn't.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:00:20

Would we make this? We make it for you, for a consumer like yours.

Sam Soffer: 1:00:23

Yeah, I love these ones. I love your pétir, pétir by the way it's so difficult to sell.

Kenney Friedman: 1:00:29

They sell this in America.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:00:30

Yeah, but again, it's not too heavy, no, but I, just I am proud of it being pétir adó.

Kenney Friedman: 1:00:40

Me too. I know I get that Just to sell it, you think?

S. Simon Jacob: 1:00:43

People don't know what they want. They taste this and they like this.

Kenney Friedman: 1:00:51

You're a wine writer, you're a wine writer about pétir adó caram from. Israel, I do Once people will be educated they might even go and look for it.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:01:01

The reason me and Shibi and I work so well together. First off, we both pull to different ends of the spectrum, and I believe that the end result usually is better than anything that we achieve by ourselves. But we both think of ourselves as educators, and the wine that is produced here does have the intention of not just being tasty but also to educate the drinkers. I believe in it too, and that's part of the reason why we do Merlot, why we do pétir adó.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:01:38

This is very intense. Some people say it's even too intense for them.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:01:45

But, there are a lot of people that this is exactly what they're looking for.

Kenney Friedman: 1:01:49

What's the in terms of a window of one to drink?

Yiftach Lustig: 1:01:52

something.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:01:54

What do you say?

Kenney Friedman: 1:01:55

about that. Really, when do you say this peaks?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:02:02

I would say 12 years from now, it softens, beautifully, it softens.

Kenney Friedman: 1:02:10

I have some old ones.

Sam Soffer: 1:02:12

Did you make this in 2013?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:02:15

Yeah, I think it was the first year.

Sam Soffer: 1:02:19

I think I have a 20th. I still have it Because when I drink it every time, I it was not from our venue then. It wasn't. It's still very good.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:02:28

It was very good.

Sam Soffer: 1:02:29

Every time I open one of your pétit fédos, I write a note. On every bar I open, I write don't open another one for another few years. You know what I'm saying. It's still not quite the pétit fédos can age.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:02:41

I think this is why I'm saying it's the Israeli variety, because this one can actually age.

Sam Soffer: 1:02:48

Well, very well. Will this develop tertiary notes? Yeah, not now. Not now, but 12 years from now.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:02:57

It has so much time and so much body that it will keep its current characteristics for very long.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:03:09

It starts becoming aged, much, much later than the merlot we taste.

Sam Soffer: 1:03:14

Merlot cannot age very well. No, I find the merlots that I buy. I usually drink them within a few years.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:03:19

Merlot, I would say six years is the maximum.

Kenney Friedman: 1:03:21

But that's why I think Americans specifically should buy more merlot also, because it's there now, it's ready, right, and it's soft and it's. You know, cab is not really great for the American palate. You don't realize they're merlots you buy.

Sam Soffer: 1:03:38

It's like the DRC's right it's 100% merlot.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:03:40

You like a wine like the.

Sam Soffer: 1:03:41

DRC yeah, it's 100% merlot, I love merlot.

Kenney Friedman: 1:03:45

I know it's a different kind of merlot.

Sam Soffer: 1:03:48

This merlot is a wine for the first couple of years. That's what I learned with this Guys we have two more wines.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:03:56

One is Masada.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:03:59

Which is a blend.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:04:00

It's a blend. It was our highest blend until recently. Now you make the razz. Now we make the razz.

Sam Soffer: 1:04:09

The razz right. The razz is not available in America.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:04:11

The razz is not available anywhere, but here Can we taste the razz?

S. Simon Jacob: 1:04:16

No, I don't want to taste it, I want to buy it by myself.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:04:19

Yeah, that's the first.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:04:21

There's very few. There's very few, very few.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:04:23

That's why one of the reasons I came was to taste it.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:04:26

And there's also another thing the razz are two barrels from the whole winery.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:04:31

They're aged for 24 months at least and then, three more years in the barrel here in the winery. So 2017 is what we sell now. 2018 is starting to sell soon.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:04:46

And if you want, there's another bottle that's only sold here. It's something of a passion project. It's a Gofna, so in your blood.

Kenney Friedman: 1:04:56

Yeah, not really Gofna, so in your blood.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:05:00

You want to open the razz or you want to open Masada.

Sam Soffer: 1:05:02

No, we'll have the Masada, masada. I want to try the razz. I love the Masada but I store. I have a million of them. I buy the Masada. I tell everybody, all the wines in Israel. This is the best aging wine in Israel.

Kenney Friedman: 1:05:19

The Masada. The Masada is the best aging wine. Every time I've opened one.

Sam Soffer: 1:05:22

I've never opened one that I thought wasn't young. So I'm still, I'm still talking about going back to 2005.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:05:30

No, no, I don't have that. I don't have that.

Sam Soffer: 1:05:32

I have maybe 2010. I've never had one that I didn't think was young. I open one every circus.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:05:39

We opened our Herodion, which is kind of a vault, a cavernation of New. York, 2009,. About two weeks ago. Yeah, we opened it Then it was perfect. I have some.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:05:49

Herodion 2009's and I'm telling you, perfect. Everybody said I love the gophins better and like I. Just for some reason they got lost in my cellar and I pulled them out and they're amazing.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:06:02

Amazing. We opened one here and I posted. I don't post a lot on Facebook, but I was so excited that I actually posted it.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:06:10

I saw that. I saw that. I told him look, there's a pop open and wide. You gotta give it a go. It's perfect yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:06:17

It was it's I have. I have some models. Yeah, I got a tail.

Sam Soffer: 1:06:22

I got a tail.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:06:23

My wife has an underpowered headlight and she loves that, which one Herodion yeah. Herodion, herodion.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:06:32

For, for, for for me is a technically, technically, the Gvaot series, technically, is more important. Yeah, then the Gvaot. No, it's not the best, it's more important.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:06:44

More important Because most clients will find Gvaot and not Masala Right. We have to have the Gvaot in a very high level because this is the entry level of the wiring. Once you have it and you are very much impressed, you will go up to the Gvaot plant.

Sam Soffer: 1:07:03

But what, what, what I vote, what, no, what I vote, give it, give it like, uh, what I've always liked about the Gvaot. But I rate it a little bit because this is the youngest one.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:07:13

We're still selling 2020.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:07:14

So I asked him for 2021 because I want to taste 2021.

Kenney Friedman: 1:07:18

See, if it's ready.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:07:19

This is the Masala yeah.

Sam Soffer: 1:07:20

It's nice that I always.

Kenney Friedman: 1:07:21

This has not been released. The 2021 Masala.

Sam Soffer: 1:07:24

Well, when people ask me about the Gvaot ones, though, I always because I don't have to know what they're drinking Any wine, the entry level ones, are delicious. Do you know what I'm saying? It's not. You don't make any bad wine. Yeah, there's no bad wine, and that's one of the nice things of the line.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:07:36

And the thing is because I could choose the vineyards in terms of what goes in making a Gvaot for me today, I'm going to go up and I'm going to be. I'm going to be stuck working on the 2022 Gvaot right now.

Sam Soffer: 1:07:51

Mm, hmm.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:07:52

And in about an hour, and, and, and. I don't want to.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:07:56

It's not easy and it's always difficult.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:08:01

But, but, but, it's much easier.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:08:03

Give it a time. Give it a time, it is much easier. It's a big nose. At least five minutes, because I already have the right I've got to.

Sam Soffer: 1:08:10

I don't know that, but but what year is this one? 2021. 2021. Not released yet. It really needs five years.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:08:18

Yeah.

Sam Soffer: 1:08:19

Wait, wait, wait.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:08:20

Wait, wait.

Sam Soffer: 1:08:21

I know, but it's it needs. I've done this before on these wines and it needs. It needs a. If you're going to open it, it needs a decant.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:08:29

This is that. This is a potential taste Watch. This is what we're doing now. A lot of air, a lot of air, a lot of air.

Kenney Friedman: 1:08:35

So why maker's hands? Do it, do it, do it. Why maker's hands?

Yiftach Lustig: 1:08:41

And and and immediately you're going to see how it opened up.

Kenney Friedman: 1:08:44

Yeah, yeah.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:08:47

Blend it, blend it, make a blender out of it.

Kenney Friedman: 1:08:49

You know, what I've seen people doing lately. They take the the bottle.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:08:53

Called like a Shuzher thing, Closer, Put it, put it would you?

Kenney Friedman: 1:08:56

would you do that?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:08:56

There is a. Is there a thing to it? There is a.

Kenney Friedman: 1:09:00

Venturi thing, this works for these wines. Right, but do you know what I'm talking about? The thing, the immersion blender.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:09:05

Yeah.

Kenney Friedman: 1:09:06

Would you do that? No?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:09:10

Just there, just there.

Kenney Friedman: 1:09:12

I know this Shuzher. Okay, here it comes here it comes. Here it comes, but I've seen that they they use it for the cappuccino thing.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:09:24

Okay, let it, let it be, and then, like it makes sense to me, because that like really blows it up.

Kenney Friedman: 1:09:28

Yeah, really blows it up.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:09:30

Masada is blended for very long gaging. That's the whole point. But on the other hand, we still want it to be available upon release so you can actually drink it and have a lot of pleasure. But you will definitely notice that it's best if you keep them for a few more years. Oh yeah, at least five, six years more, and that's the whole point. So there are a lot of people that have no patience, and that's fine, right, and I always tell them if you buy Masada buy Sixpack.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:10:03

At least have one now, and then, every year from now, put your notes and try to see how it evolves. That's the whole point. If not don't waste your money, just buy both. Yeah, yeah it's fun.

Sam Soffer: 1:10:16

I used to do that with Masada. I stopped. I wait now about six or seven years before you start Easy yeah, then I wait. I'm telling you 10 years. I'm not sure how long they can go because I don't have old enough bottles to know how long it'll go. What's your original bottle?

Yiftach Lustig: 1:10:34

10 of these, five of these, is it still going? We're not sure how long it can go. We have, we don't know.

Sam Soffer: 1:10:40

But is it an 05? Still drinking nicely? Yeah, because people talk in Israel, people that we have chats, all these little mavens. No, no, I'm saying we have this, no, but people talk about how long one can go.

Kenney Friedman: 1:10:53

They also don't know what they're talking about.

Sam Soffer: 1:10:54

And I don't think we know the specifics. That's what.

Kenney Friedman: 1:10:56

I would say I always tell, I never know, I don't think we know about this wine, it's just not old enough wine, because we don't have old enough wines.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:11:02

That's right, I just don't know.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:11:06

I know our cruise right, our plots and we work on, like, when we think about wine in she view, we're thinking about it in terms of plots and I know that our Kabbas wine, easily if I will ever bottle 100% Kabbas wine could easily go 20, 25 years, easy, the end, the upper end of that ageing, I don't know, but 20 years I will sign.

Kenney Friedman: 1:11:34

Of which ones the sign.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:11:35

Isada, our plots, a plot called Kabbas wine. Have it stay in your mouth.

Kenney Friedman: 1:11:41

Really Feel the richness. The Cabernet next to his house. Right, okay, right.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:11:47

But it's a very, very particular plot. Wow and it has an ageing capability of 25 years Easy. Easy.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:11:55

But you will never have it. It's statement.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:11:57

But you will never have it 100%. This is rich. Okay, this is what we're looking for. It's concentrated in ways that you Length Length and complexity.

Sam Soffer: 1:12:07

That's what has some serious tannins right now too. Yeah, but they're not sticky, no, no, no, okay, they're like mouth-watering. No, it's with the wine's balance. Still tannins, yes.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:12:18

Real, oh real. What's that big Real?

Kenney Friedman: 1:12:21

We're getting food White. It's very white.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:12:25

So this is what we're looking for in our higher blend. Mm-hmm. Okay, again, we have razz, sea razz. Okay, it's even a notch higher, but this is so what we're aiming when we're producing Masada. And again, masada is an open blend. We can actually decide every year. If I shift it a little bit, in some years it will even have Pinoir. Some years it will have, if I could throw in some, even a small amount of white wine, okay.

Sam Soffer: 1:12:57

So it's really open. Do you put the grapes on the bottle? I don't think you do right. I do In.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:13:03

Masada we don't really describe very deeply, right, right yeah.

Sam Soffer: 1:13:08

I leave it vague. It's a trust thing. I leave it vague, it's trust.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:13:12

What about with the name razz?

Yiftach Lustig: 1:13:15

Oh, you just entered a world of pain.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:13:18

No, idea what you just asked. I will take that back. We actually called it Sleepy Joe to start with. Okay, sleepy Joe.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:13:27

We had a name, we had everything set up and then we figured out someone else was using it. We made a lot of fun out of it.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:13:35

We had five years to think of it and we came up with a lot of nonsense. Finally we thought of calling it Trump, I mean Jokely, and then we called it Sleepy Joe, and then we called it another, a lot of bunch of things. But finally there was a guy in a close by Ishu. He was a Yamam fighter, a very serious guy, and he fell in duty and his name was Razz, nom Razz. So we decided that his memory is the highest thing, that we see as the highest rank that we can think about.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:14:21

Yeah, beautiful.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:14:25

And the first thing we did is send her a window. They did an inauguration of the Kleset on his name and they opened this bottle there.

Kenney Friedman: 1:14:37

You put that on there. Will that be on the bottle or no? No, no, that's just your story, yeah.

Sam Soffer: 1:14:42

Great Great. I saw a picture of your uniform. You were active for a while there.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:14:50

I'm saying that I'm the responsible adult around here.

Sam Soffer: 1:14:58

Drinking wine at 11 o'clock in the morning, that's very unique.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:15:02

One, one, one, one of the three. Yeah, I'm sure I really like it.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:15:15

I like the concept that he's very good, but he didn't like it.

Sam Soffer: 1:15:18

Love this one.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:15:20

You want it. No, okay, yeah, yeah, good, wow, I'm going to show you.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:15:25

Wow, I'm going to show you. You will see. You will see he's bringing you something from the barrel. We spoke about the vineyard that has no irrigation at all my vineyard near my house, which is a very important part of Razz and the Masada, you will taste it.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:15:43

It's about less than 10 barrels a year, but the whole laundry is based on that cloth, it gets a lot of the characteristics.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:15:54

You will feel it it's something Well yeah. And this is the only vineyard that we ever thought about doing a single vineyard, because the roots are so deep and a very specific kind of soil there that it gets a lot of minerality and richness. You will taste it.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:16:09

If we ever do, a single vineyard it would be in the winery for five, six, 10 years before we release it because, yes, this is his bottle.

Sam Soffer: 1:16:18

What grape is this Go round? Thank you, son.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:16:25

Thank you, I haven't tried this since we bought a little bit.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:16:28

Thank you, you're drinking.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:16:30

We bought it, of course.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:16:31

Of course, in my opinion this is not even the end of the window. This has no way to go. This is the very beginning.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:16:41

I know, I knew it was going to taste like this.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:16:45

This is 7.10. This is a 6.11 wine acting like a 6.11 wine.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:16:50

Yeah, it tastes like this. It's awesome.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:16:54

One was his bottle. Wait for it 2019.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:16:58

No 2019.

Kenney Friedman: 1:17:02

That's a two years in barrel For 2020.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:17:05

Three years in the bottle. Three years in the bottle and the bottle. And now it's selling. Can you try this for three years?

S. Simon Jacob: 1:17:12

Sorry.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:17:12

I had a few over the years.

Sam Soffer: 1:17:14

No, you didn't bring the.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:17:16

Stilmarco right Clash on a thousand of these bottles. Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine what did you say? No, 600 bottles, that's it. I know what you said.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:17:25

No, you can't taste it.

Sam Soffer: 1:17:27

I know what you said, I know what you said.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:17:30

Warm it a little bit.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:17:31

This is going to go into my cellar for a long time.

Sam Soffer: 1:17:34

Yeah, I'm going to put one also away.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:17:36

This is, I think, a cabinet patissiere. That's it, yeah.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:17:41

I'm going to open this another way.

Sam Soffer: 1:17:43

What.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:17:43

Which of the wines comes out of that.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:17:45

Wow, now it's perfumey.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:17:46

What comes out of the vineyard? Out of that vineyard, what's wine? Wine is why.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:17:51

I line up which vineyard, warming it up a little bit. We're not special vineyards. All of our vineyards are special wine.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:18:00

We're talking about a cab.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:18:05

It's completely a cab. There are a row and a half of Merlot there but it's 100% cab. It's a very small vineyard and a very particular one, and it gives us concentration, depth and richness that are not seen in the mincero.

Kenney Friedman: 1:18:22

Anyway, I think it's all fat you have to warm it up, warm it up.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:18:26

Yeah.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:18:26

It gives you concentration, depth and depth I've not seen anywhere else. Wow.

Kenney Friedman: 1:18:34

Yeah, on my sweater.

Sam Soffer: 1:18:37

It's like a Masada on steroids.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:18:42

Very good, yeah, it is.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:18:46

Good, good definition.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:18:47

Masada on steroids. Yeah, because we were talking about our plots and everything.

Kenney Friedman: 1:19:00

We got you a barrel tasting our 2023 cab one New.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:19:09

This is fresh. This is six months in the barrel.

Kenney Friedman: 1:19:15

A complex wine.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:19:16

That is really maybe an infant right now.

Sam Soffer: 1:19:20

Okay, this is going to be the Gulf.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:19:21

I just wanted you to understand the concentration the concentration that this lost.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:19:28

Don't drop the razz, okay, you drink the razz. You don't drop the razz.

Sam Soffer: 1:19:34

No, no, no. This is waste.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:19:35

These are kids, that's why I gave them some of it Okay this is also new wood.

Kenney Friedman: 1:19:40

You're a good son.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:19:41

You will see it, this is a vase.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:19:44

I didn't hear what this is this is the Cabernet we know near my house, cab 1, we call it. It's a very interesting oh out of that, out of that venue. You said Out of the barrel, six months old, wow An infant.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:19:58

Just see the concentration. Okay, when we talk about concentration, it will understand. No, it's a 23.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:20:02

Yeah, yeah, it's like it's in my house.

Kenney Friedman: 1:20:06

It's like yeah, it's like this one the concentration of that plot is this, but I find that razz approachable very much. I mean, I think it's like you can drink that now.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:20:17

You can, you can, you can, but there's a few weight on it.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:20:23

Yeah for sure Two thousand seventeen minutes of that With the razz still has a long way to go.

Kenney Friedman: 1:20:29

I found that. I found that Masada more like smack you on the face like too young, but the, the razz I found more approachable, maybe more crazy. It's much older, yeah, older.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:20:39

Yeah, it's sitting six years. You want to compare the Masada? Way too young, way too young, way too young.

Kenney Friedman: 1:20:46

Compare wrong 17 to a.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:20:48

Masada 17.

Sam Soffer: 1:20:48

Right, right, right the Masada 17 is amazing, amazing, it's an amazing one. But it's what is? A six year old wine, right? This is a three year old one, seven.

Kenney Friedman: 1:20:57

Seven. We're in 24.

Sam Soffer: 1:20:58

Oh, that's right, this is a beautiful bouquet, yeah this is a camp.

Kenney Friedman: 1:21:03

Interesting nose.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:21:04

Yeah, warm it, because it's like 12 degrees, bring it up to 20.

Sam Soffer: 1:21:11

You drink one, you hold it from the stem If you want it to warm up.

Kenney Friedman: 1:21:15

Interesting nose. If you want to warm up, give me your nose Earsiness.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:21:18

Leather, yeah, leather.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:21:21

It's a two more years in a barrel before, very, very unique, very unique, very interesting nose.

Sam Soffer: 1:21:30

I would never guess this is.

Kenney Friedman: 1:21:33

I wouldn't even know what to say about this.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:21:35

This is what happens when you grow a tempernée without any irrigation.

Sam Soffer: 1:21:41

I would think this is a Spanish cab without irrigation, the concentration, something like that Something I would be full.

Kenney Friedman: 1:21:47

Yeah, like tempernée maybe Right. Yeah, it does smell Spanish.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:21:58

Thank you, thank you so? Much. Put it in your mouth and you will understand the richness.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:22:02

What yeah? Concentration richness. And this is amazing, this is still very twitchy.

Kenney Friedman: 1:22:09

I would never guess cab for that. Acid yeah natural acid Major acid.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:22:16

Oh boy.

Kenney Friedman: 1:22:17

Delicious.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:22:19

Wow.

Kenney Friedman: 1:22:21

Interesting line. Very interesting line.

Sam Soffer: 1:22:24

You're gonna put this in. This is gonna be a gulfna wine.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:22:26

It goes into gulfna cabbizer and the soda.

Kenney Friedman: 1:22:30

You wouldn't make this, just no.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:22:32

A single, a single, why not it?

Kenney Friedman: 1:22:34

changes.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:22:35

It shifts.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:22:36

It shifts.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:22:38

This is very new. It never stays like this, okay, you?

Yiftach Lustig: 1:22:42

mean every time If I would fall very young.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:22:44

Maybe for half a year it would stay like this, but then it evolves and it needs it. Will put a lot of complexity into blends, but it cannot stand alone.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:22:57

Very so, very specifically it's too concentrated, it's too hard for and most people when they smell this kind of funkiness.

Kenney Friedman: 1:23:05

Yeah.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:23:05

They won't really appreciate it. Yeah, do you. I can't put this.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:23:08

You've had nights where you drunk and your mouth is full of tannins. Yeah, this one will give it to you, that sensation within one glass. There's no way to finish a bottle. It's just too rich.

Sam Soffer: 1:23:20

It's just such a fascinating aroma, yeah.

Kenney Friedman: 1:23:22

Very unique.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:23:23

It is Very special.

Kenney Friedman: 1:23:27

Acid that blueberry is coming out.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:23:29

Now, blueberry is coming out. Did somebody say blueberry?

Kenney Friedman: 1:23:32

Yeah, now blueberry is coming out. It's a no, I don't get blueberry there. It's weird, I don't get blueberry.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:23:37

Yeah, because especially about that, like, if you want to take anything from this, visit.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:23:43

This is the fact that we are an estate binary and control our own plots.

Kenney Friedman: 1:23:48

Yeah.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:23:48

Our cabs, our petite petite rondo, our We'll take a bottle of this this is a port styled wine that will be.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:24:05

We don't make a port Once every like six, seven years. They make a port, something like that. We yeah, we age it for very, very long.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:24:18

So we age it for very long. We use Solace method, so it's an envy it does not have a vintage, it is. We're looking for a balance, which a lot of the ports in Israel are.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:24:35

Sweet.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:24:36

Yeah, I'm going to be Not the static I'm going to be rude, right, but it is for very religious, very religious people. That's what, yeah, Exactly, they're looking for that concrete. They're looking for that men's shabbos, and for us we're trying to make a proper Guys warm it up a little bit. Proper fortified wine means a lot less sugars and just a lot more balance and a lot more spiciness and no alcohol.

Sam Soffer: 1:25:08

Beautiful, this is beautiful.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:25:10

This is where I side with him against the CEO we're saying that was not ready.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:25:14

Every year he says okay, now we were bowling, yeah.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:25:17

No, no, no, no no.

Sam Soffer: 1:25:18

Where are you going to ball it? It's beautiful. Wait a minute, Freddie.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:25:21

this is what they should.

Sam Soffer: 1:25:22

I'm involved in this for three years and we're getting close, but I'm still getting close.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:25:28

Do you sell this? You don't have this balance.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:25:30

Really.

Sam Soffer: 1:25:31

It's not yet decided when I'm bowling?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:25:37

We don't, it's close?

Sam Soffer: 1:25:39

Yeah, it's close. Will this evolve in the bottle?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:25:42

Yeah, this is actually infinite.

Kenney Friedman: 1:25:47

Because of the what If you need to take something out of a revolve and I'm going to say something that's very arrogant.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:25:58

Okay. I am saying something that's very arrogant. This is the motto. We don't release anything less than perfect. We try If we have to. We have all In the three years I've been consulting. We've made a lot of decisions that cost this place a lot of money. I distill wine. Yeah, if it's not perfect, it's not coming out.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:26:23

Okay, I'm not looking to make the marginal profit out of bad wines, blending them into other.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:26:31

No.

Kenney Friedman: 1:26:31

Just distill them, and I never understand it. There are wineries that come out with Literally I'm like how is that not bad for your business?

Yiftach Lustig: 1:26:40

I don't like most sports. This is a good sport. No, that's why I like long term. The long term it's a financial. It has some complexity. It's beautiful. And that's part of the reason why we work so well together is because of the odd-crazy huge-crazy Patience, patience. It's impressive we make wine to our own standard and it has to be the highest standard. It doesn't work any other way.

Sam Soffer: 1:27:12

No, it's a lot of alcohol in here. This is like 17.5 alcohol but that's it. What did you fortify at home? 95% or 77%?

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:27:23

We fortified it with 70% alcohol that was distilled from bad wines in the wine 70%.

Sam Soffer: 1:27:31

Like a Like, a Like, a Like a port.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:27:34

I just want to it's 18 months to find the right alcohol to fortify it with and, eventually, what we have to do is distill our own wine.

Sam Soffer: 1:27:45

Because that's the only thing that we trusted. But you use the 70%, not a crazy high percent. We had a lovely port last night, lovely From, I think, the total, beautiful no from the Aquaviraya, beautiful port and still the 95% alcohol. It was beautiful. This is very lovely.

Dr. Shivi Drori: 1:28:05

Enjoy it with your pizza and cheese.

Yiftach Lustig: 1:28:09

Thank you.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:28:11

No thank you.

Kenney Friedman: 1:28:12

I can't believe we got all of you here. What a perfect.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:28:25

This is Simon Jacob, again your host of today's episode of the Kosher Terwa. I have a personal request no matter where you are or where you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldier's safety and the safety of our soldiers, and make sure you stay safe and rapid return of our hostages and, whenever possible, buy and share Israeli wine. I hope you have enjoyed this episode of the Kosher Terwa. It was exciting and informative for me as well. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you're new to the Kosher Terwa, please check out our many past episodes.