Solidarity and Passion Intertwined in Italian Kosher Winemaking

S. Simon Jacob: 0:09

Welcome to The Kosher Terroir. I'm Simon Jacob, your host for this episode from Jerusalem. Before we get started, I ask that, wherever you are, please take a moment and pray for the safety of our soldiers and the safe return of all of our hostages. It is my pleasure to present an additional conversation with my good friend, Dr. Ralph Madeb. Dr Ralph, as he is known by his many kosher wine followers, is owner of M&M Importers, a kosher fine wine import company representing boutique and mid-size family-owned and operated wineries. M&M's focus is on quality wines of distinction, with each bottle reflecting the unique character of the world's diverse wine-growing regions. Their comprehensive portfolio includes over 75 indigenous varietals from some of the most prominent wine-growing regions throughout the world. They strive to work with wineries that maintain winemaking traditions of their region in order to produce wines of the highest quality and the best value. Dr Ralph's partner in his Italian wine portfolio is Mr Nunzio Castaldo. Nunzio is owner and manager of Panabianco Imports, a New York-based Italian wine importer and distributor. Nunzio, a veteran of the wine industry for more than 30 years, has worked closely with Dr Made b to collect only the best Italian wineries into M&M's portfolio and, at the same time, making sure that the kosher interpretations of these elite brands meets with their original tasting and complexity standards.

S. Simon Jacob: 2:09

If you're commuting in your car, please focus on the road and enjoy. If you're home, please choose a delicious kosher wine and sit back and listen to a truly interesting conversation with two of the world's most knowledgeable kosher Italian wine resources. Actually, I wanted to start this off by saying welcome to The Kosher Terroir, which is the podcast. Thank you, and just say thank you very much for being on it and being here. Dr. Ralph told me about what you did, Nunzio, and I have a question for you why in the world would you make a donation to Israel, number one, and what are your thoughts as to what's going on in today's world?

Nunzio Castaldo: 2:59

Well, thank you for asking that. I'm motivated to do certain things through the sparkling of an action or something that happened globally or locally, I don't care. I don't care if it's something that moves me and if I can contribute either with a voice or with an act or a contribution physically. All donating for me is important. I was very moved emotionally by what I saw on October 7. I was very sad, I cried internally and you have to understand that here in the United States we don't have the privilege to see what the television stations show, for political reasons sometimes, but they show much more than we know that the CBS, nbc and whatever, even CNN shows it to us and I saw those atrocities.

Nunzio Castaldo: 4:11

I've been really connected to that kind of, I would say, really sad moments. I understand that you are in war. There are things that you do that unfortunately and I say with a very light meaning is they're justified if you are in war. When you are not in war, they are not justification from any in this world and outside the world, that thing that I can justify what I saw, what I learned, what I experienced from far away, emotionally, looking at those families and children. I don't want to go back there. So I said I want to contribute. I contributed many times, even for things that happened in Bangladesh or whatever, but that was the time that I had to contribute in a very for me meaningful way and more with the spirits than the merry dollars, which doesn't mean anything.

S. Simon Jacob: 5:21

Well, I just really wanted to say thank you, because it really is meaningful that not only that you contributed, but that you thought to even contribute, because there was a time, at the very beginning of this war, when we were seeing all the marching and all of these crazy things going on all over the world and in the university campuses and what have you that we felt very, very alone. Really, it was incredibly difficult. It's come around. There's a lot of countries that have come out positively saying, hey look, we have freedom of speech, so people might be parading in our streets, but that's not how we feel as a country. It's been. We've had a lot more support from people and that's been incredibly positive. You don't need support from people. When you're flying high, when everything's going great, people are always willing to help and support you, but when things are really difficult and tough and we're facing crazy decisions that have a lot of negative publicity because of them, it's important to have that support and I really want to thank you.

Nunzio Castaldo: 6:50

No, no, listen. I thank you to say what you believe in. And the other reason why I was very moved is because I feel connected to a world that was unknown to me and, thanks to my very good friend, Ralph Madab and others and don't forget, I'm also connected to families now because my daughter is married with a very fine Jewish man, which I love him, and that he has a great family behind that support whatever he believes, and we respect that. Because, at the end of the day, that is all about respect and I cannot allow myself to break bread with Ralph and many others that I met through Ralph and not show my support in a very small way, because it's a drop in the ocean and what do we do? But at least it's something and I like that.

Nunzio Castaldo: 7:55

Our beliefs they don't have to stop with practice. That is different, but it's all about family, about belief, about respect, and that is what motivated me more than anything else. I decided the atrocity of the images and everything that is still very marked in my mind, which is like a 9-11,. You would never really forget those moments.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 8:26

I want to reiterate two points. His contribution was a matching contribution. He was making it seem like the initial contribution was $36,000,.

S. Simon Jacob: 8:36

Nunzio gave $10,000, it's not a small case it's a small, but it was a third.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 8:43

I was so overtaken by his generosity which we raised it in about 12 minutes. We put it on our SRCC chat. The boys gave $16, Nunzio gave $10, I was so overwhelmed that I decided I'm giving $10,000 just to match Nunzio, so it's not like he gave $5,000. I'll tell you Nujigai left Winebowl after 40 years or some crazy amount of time. How much 32 years. Wow, 32?

Nunzio Castaldo: 9:14

32,. Hey, hey, hey, hey.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 9:18

You got a full head of hair. Nujigai, that's really good. 32 years at Winebowl and started his own company because of his passion. He doesn't need to do this. His wife also owns a restaurant, Having a whole new company. Believe me, I know the expenses and to me it was just so overwhelmingly generous that it says a lot. It says a lot of his character, Needless to say, that all these kosher wines that you're enjoying, all these kosher wines that are from Italy, are really under his direction. He has a huge contribution, both financially here, and he has, let's say I don't know how to call it sort of like a super cantorial. We would say no, it's a spiritual connection.

S. Simon Jacob: 10:10

It's definitely a spiritual commitment because to go with these things being kosher, it's not just becoming a distributor for the wines that are coming out of Italy. It's taking these wines and having to go through all of the grief of making them kosher and then bringing them to the world distributing to the world.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 10:30

Nunzio has learned more about rabbinical kosher wine making process and about much kiosk more than half the people drinking the wine.

Nunzio Castaldo: 10:39

I know it was amazing. I'm still amazed. Listen, I don't know if you can get into this conversation already, but you know, immediately that is like a really open. So I was exposed to the kosher world in a very technical way, and I mean it. You know, in a sense it was like kind of like you know, I do this for you, you give this fee, that's it. You know, in other words, about 10 or 12 years ago, that was before us.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 11:14

That was before us, yeah before of endermen.

Nunzio Castaldo: 11:19

I'm very good friend with, with the. I believe one of the top, if he's not the top wine maker in the world, as a matter of fact, is the president of asianology in the world. His name is Ricardo Cotarella and, as a matter of fact, ricardo Cotarella is responsible for making a project very successful. I don't know now in which stage is it, but there is the first project in Israel that you know that has vineyards between the Arabs, palestinians and the Jewish settlers. You know where they make this wine and he's under his governance. In terms of technology, yeah, so that is really something that moved him to make a batch of a kosher wine under somebody that commissioned this batch that lived in France, another wine maker, kosher wine maker. And so when the one is was ready to ship, no, ricardo that worked with the wine bowl with his own brands at that time, called Felisco, asked the National Importer, which was at that time of wine bowl, to do him a favor, you know, basically to enter this wine and to ship to couple of, I believe, wine shops in Cranhites here in Brooklyn. And that's how we started these things and we did, like you know, under a small fee, you know, just to facilitate this kind of a process, you know, and he went down for maybe one or two or even three years. The problem is was, like you know that here, not there that we had some problems, you know, with these retailers and we stopped that project without knowing that the production back to Italy was already advanced for two or three Vintage's. So those are two or three Vintage's were not exported anymore in the United States and this state in France and we didn't know what happened.

Nunzio Castaldo: 13:38

But I believe that you know that Ralph had his wine, he fell in love with his wine and he called me. I was still in a part of the organization of a wine bowl at that time. I was in charge of all the imports. It was like a big, huge book, about $110 million, $120 million book. And so when he called me I says, oh, no, another one of these people that just want to me, you know, just to import them. You know I have to fight with the fee, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Nunzio Castaldo: 14:10

But he say something that you know, that they really resonate me, you know, and and I said that, no, I like these wines because I really want to change the perception of the American Jewish drinkers and consumers that they have to find the you know quality in their bottles, in my business and I'm in the business for most of 40 years, you know I started at the young. You know I always been driven by passion, on my own expense, because passion doesn't bring money but for me brings a gratifying and so I saw in that statement and I spoke on the phone Some sort of a light that was like mine. You know that you know that was a mission more than like a business deal, and that is where I, you know I, started to go ahead with that kind of you know request that you wanted. Of course I had to make my money, so I fought with him with the, with the percentage, but I give him a good discount.

Nunzio Castaldo: 15:20

He was happy, I was happy for the company that I work for and we moved, you know like, really pretty quickly in advance, this wine that at that time it was still the old wine because he bought the vintage. That was already done without this intervention with his own team in Italy, with, you know, ravma I don't know if you know Humberto Piper and so on. So anyway, so that's what you know really went forward. The thing that happened after. That was related to me rather than this project, because I decided that after 32 years to resign from wine ball. You have to remember when I joined wine ball which was like the greatest company in the in the United States, as an important distributor for Italian wines and not only thought I started when the remedy was about $4 million.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 16:23

I left one, but when it?

Nunzio Castaldo: 16:24

was $875 million. And so I say you know what my path, you know is finished, because the next step will be to go to a billion dollar and that passion that I preserved. You know the fact that you know that I can still shake hands with that college. You know hands from a grower, the fact that I can dirty my boots going through the vineyards and the fact that I can be in the cellars until one o'clock in the morning tasting every single barrel with another producer. It will finish and I'm still young.

Nunzio Castaldo: 16:59

I don't want to be in that way. I don't want us to get stuck behind the computer screen just preparing, you know like you know, reports and things like that. So I decided with, you know, with the, with the blessing of my wife, because she's a saint, you know, she's a really someone that you know that I devoted all my life for her, for my family, because she allowed me to do what I want to do. You have to understand that. You know that I was in charge of Chile, argentina, France, portugal, spain, austria, italy. I was traveling between the 180, 190 days away from home, and that is for a tight family. You know exactly what I mean. It's very, very, very difficult.

Nunzio Castaldo: 17:55

And if I didn't have a woman like my wife, I couldn't have really achieved anything. So I was very blessed, you know, to do that and I went there. So, listen, I said I sit down one night, you know, in a beautiful restaurant drinking beautiful wines, and says Angela, I think that nightlife in Weinbaugh has finished and I want to move on and I want to visit places that I didn't visit yet, you know, and I want to really go back again. I says, no, you're not young anymore, but if that passion is still alive and if the passion is still strong, I, you will have my full support, more than anything else, and that's what we did. So I, after six months, I acquired this small company called Panabianco. Ironically, ironically, Mr Panabianco Livia, which was a friend of mine, passed on the 2015. But when I started in Weinbaugh okay, I was a 25, I took his place. Wow, Wow. So that is a circle of life.

S. Simon Jacob: 19:06

Yeah.

Nunzio Castaldo: 19:06

In my mind Wow, and that's why I says you know the sign of God, that's my company, I don't care how much and fortunately had the wines at island. You know, I changed a few things, but the skeleton over the company and not the company, but over the portfolio is still almost the same. Which?

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 19:26

is. You know, Simon, for me, to me, this this caused a little bit of a problem because you know, in French wines, you know my craziness about French, you know, and I know, I know every single supplier and where the wine comes from. But in Italy, you know, my education really came from my family, milan, which we spoke about, and came from Nuno. Like 90% of my education on wine came from Nuno and at that point I was terrified because you know, he was going to have an on compete and we had a lot of stuff in the barrel and and I want to make a move, he's like my tall. I told him he's my Jewish pope. I need, I need, I need, I need, I need blessing on these wines, yeah.

Nunzio Castaldo: 20:11

No, it was. It was a challenge at the beginning, simon, because I wanted to give him, like, a more assistance, but I know that I couldn't. But we also find a way to, you know, to navigate with, with, with, with these adversities. And we find also other companies, you know other wineries that you know that they were friends. You know he relied on my expertise and I appreciate that. That was very, I would say, thankful for that, because he started a beautiful project, you know.

Nunzio Castaldo: 20:44

And again, the motivation was aligned with my mission as a, as a professional, which means that you know that I could speak the same language in certain ways, you know, with two, with the same product, made in different ways. I learned a lot, you know, in the process. I learned a lot in the culture. I learned a lot, you know, in the people, because I was allowed to spend many times, you know, with his, you know with a rough friends, which they respect me, I respect them, so and that was like, you know, like a kind of like a dive in a culture that it was for me reading only one way, and now I see in different ways, and that was for me in open and open and Simon, he had open access to everything.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 21:35

You know how much he asked the guys who are doing the wine, the actual employees. You know he was obviously the winemakers and all the rabbis, the rabbinical supervision. When we wanted to do Mevushaw wines, he was speculative as well.

Nunzio Castaldo: 21:49

He understood the process.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 21:50

He called the people in France. He called the rabbi wolf from Amsterdam to understand the process. You know his reputation is on the line as well. You're taking a, it doesn't matter from where Austria, france, california and you're going to pasteurize it or boil it. You know it's his name on the line.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 22:08

So, every part of the process, nunzio was given carte blanche and if he didn't like something, he told me. You know some of the. I'll give you some simple things. Some of the Meshkiach. We're not following the wine, the winemakers Instructions, it's exact instructions. You take a guy like Beppe Peskaya okay, no import to America, nunzio. We found them through somebody else. But right away I wouldn't even call him without Nunzio. You should know Simon Peskaya wines. They're coming to Israel soon. They're going to be. You know these have a lot of sacrifice, both Jewish and non-Jewish sacrifice, to make that wine kosher. I call him the wine Nazi. You know he won't let them move right or left. When he didn't like having an employee, nunzio had to get on the phone, tell the guy do not bring me this Meshkiach anymore, because he won't climb on the barrel and he has a separate way to put the sulfite or, if it's, or for it's, citrate or whatever he wants to put into the barrel, into the tank.

S. Simon Jacob: 23:10

Into the tank.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 23:11

It has to be done his way, his way, and if it's not his way he won't let it. He won't let it. Do it the way he bottles it. You know he's very practical. I tell Beppe, all the time I can operate on his, on his, in his winery, it's spotless. You don't find it like in any other, almost in any other wineries. You know Nunzio was involved in every single decision. I let my car plunge. It wasn't like these things is, just do what I say and you get a rubber stamp of approval. I mean, he really really helped develop this, this, the quality, the passion, you know, the even quantity. He told me Ralph, you're doing too much of this, you can get into trouble here. Like every little detail he was on top of.

S. Simon Jacob: 23:50

You know, I, I can hear, and one thing I can hear loud and clear is the passion from both of you. Doc, I know your passion for for ages, but, and I have met you once, nunzio, I don't remember exactly where, but we did definitely meet it was. It was in the restaurant. Oh, in your house, right, right, we had a taste.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 24:18

We had like a pseudo wrote the same rush called this club people, right, but we had the Spanish. Um, uh, Moses. Moses was there and he put some of his wines out because we were hosting him, because I guess it was a hard time.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:34

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 24:35

Royal guys couldn't get together and and I invited Nunzio to come and we did a flasco vertical there.

Nunzio Castaldo: 24:40

Yes, wow, I remember, I remember very well. Wow, that's where you met him.

S. Simon Jacob: 24:45

Yeah, no, I, I, I hear loud and clear the passion. I hear loud and clear the passion and that's interesting. You gave me, uh, the beginnings of everything and and what led up to it. You're in a unique position because you're tasting, and you're tasting in a nonbiased way, both the kosher and the non-kosher. Is there a difference in your mind that you're tasting out, of these products that are coming out?

Nunzio Castaldo: 25:14

It's a great question because really, I mean, the first time I drank kosher wine was when we I remember that with the wine bowl, we were the official importer of a Yard Vend at one point which was like, kind of like, became very commercial, you know, and they had, like you know, strictly kosher wines, obviously wines, and I have to say that you know that I was pretty impressed, you know, for the quality and for the, you know for the texture and things like that. You know, at the end of the day, I mean, we're talking about meditative re-enbasant. You know, the sun is almost the same of Cicillin-Savini, or the cost of Tuscany or even Catalonia, you know whatever. So we are talking about most of, for the most part, international varietals. You know which. Most of the time they come from greenhouses in France. We're talking about, obviously, method that 30 or 25, 30 years ago there was still not up to the level of, you know, technical level that now you know we have. But I remember that you know that there was like really a wine that you know that didn't move me very well but was done well, you know, technically speaking. And I start to taste the wines through the M&M imports with Ralph and we tasted some French wines.

Nunzio Castaldo: 26:57

You know, at the beginning I was really impressed. I was really impressed. I said it doesn't matter if it's kosher or not. Of course I would drink this one. You know I would drink very, you know, very easily. So and I start to learn a little bit more about the process. You know what they will entail at the end of the day is just like a manipulation. That is different. But it doesn't add or take out things that you know that they are responsible for a final product. I'm talking about kosher. You know maybe shop, obviously, yeah.

S. Simon Jacob: 27:35

So the next question is Mavushal, have you have?

Nunzio Castaldo: 27:38

you no, mavushal, I refuse to drink it and to accept it. I mean with all due respect, I mean I have a great respect that you know that, but for my belief and for what I wake up in the morning every day, you know, for wines, I don't have a one ounce of understanding why we have to boil the wines.

S. Simon Jacob: 28:05

Okay, but have you tasted it?

Nunzio Castaldo: 28:10

Yeah, I did.

S. Simon Jacob: 28:11

That's why I'm a killer, that's why you feel like this Okay, well, it's a non-biased, that's perfectly fine, that's what I was looking for. I was looking for a moment to give me a real, non-biased opinion.

Nunzio Castaldo: 28:24

So, again, I mean you know that many things, even in food, you know preparation. There are many things that you know that you prefer in certain ways because the tradition and the method of the application has to be in that way, for religious or for even for medical reasons. You know whatever it is. But I mean, I mean for me, for our world. You know, I don't believe that. You know it's something that, beside the religion factor, is something that is a very let's put this way I believe that it's like I don't like it.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:02

Okay, I get it, 100% I get it. You're. You know, you're echoing the same feelings of just about all of the high-end kosher wine drinkers. So that's why I was wondering, you know, it's always good to hear an opinion that's outside of my own world.

Nunzio Castaldo: 29:31

Look, I'm sorry to interrupt you.

S. Simon Jacob: 29:32

No, no, you're none.

Nunzio Castaldo: 29:33

There are many things that I started to appreciate it, you know, through these few last years. You know through the culture that inviting into you know, ralph and many other people in his community, for example, I appreciate very much how you guys prepare meat, for example. You know I love it the way that you guys have meat. It's yeah, it's a cut. You know that is very, you know has to be done in certain ways and but the preparation is fantastic.

Nunzio Castaldo: 30:09

I mean, I was invited many times by you know, by Ralph, to attend these dinners and that for me is very important because at the end of the day, we're talking about the tables. For us, as you guys, this is a secret momentum. You know table when you eat and when you gather everybody around the table. That is like you know really the most. I would say I end moment that you know that you share with your family, with your friends, with you know, with the people that you love and respect, and sharing food.

Nunzio Castaldo: 30:48

That is a practice that I respect very much and if I'm invited to a table, you know if it's for business or physical pleasure, physical family tradition or rituals. I mean I'm very appreciative and when I can match, you know only the people but also the food, with wine. That is the supreme you know achievement that you can get. And so I appreciate very much how cultures you know, that you know especially you know from from from what I believe that they are very close you know, to our traditional Italian tradition but the Jewish tradition, when I appreciate you know they're making you know, I feel very close.

S. Simon Jacob: 31:34

That's a huge compliment to Ralph. That's a huge compliment to Ralph and also to I've enjoyed. I've enjoyed meals at Ralph's as well. So it's, yeah, it's a huge compliment, thank you. Thank you, I have. I have.

S. Simon Jacob: 31:51

There are a lot of subjects that I could bring up in this, but there is. I want to pick one specific one because I would love to have you both back on again and to talk in the future. I want to pick one of the things that people after your last conversation on the kosher terroir doctor was that could you focus on one region and speak a little bit about that region and and having you, nunzio, on the call on this program, I think it would be super enlightening to pick a region that is that's interesting to you both, that you maybe one that you're promoting a wine from now, or one that you are going to be promoting a wine from, and and talk a little bit about it and what makes the region special, because I know each of the regions within Italy is its own world and and it has its own things that are special.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 32:59

Nunzio, you pick, I'm ready for all of them.

Nunzio Castaldo: 33:05

Well, I want to be really partial, you know, obviously will be Italy, even though you asked me a question before. Which is the wine that you know that I like to choose more if I will have a possibility. Yeah, there is a wine that you know that comes no far away from Israel, which is in Lebanon. Yeah, and Chateauneaux. That is a wine that, for me, really in in you know, capsule everything that I like you know, between the soil, the tradition, the family behind the varietals and in the way that they make.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:46

Tell me a little bit about it. It's white, red. What are the varietals?

Nunzio Castaldo: 33:50

The Bacchus Valley and.

S. Simon Jacob: 33:53

Okay, bacchus Valley.

Nunzio Castaldo: 33:54

So, yeah, I would like to talk next time, maybe with a glass of wine, over this wine, which is very become very rare to find bubbles and vintage at the line, but this is one of the wine that you know that, if I can get outside Italy all the time beside you know, the Chateauneaux from Bocca Stel and some others, that's what I would like to, you know, to always have next to me, you know, to drink.

S. Simon Jacob: 34:21

What's special about it?

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 34:23

That's, that's my lineage.

S. Simon Jacob: 34:25

Yeah, he's Lebanese. He's Lebanese.

Nunzio Castaldo: 34:28

So, maybe we can get a. You see, I cannot talk about these things because the first thing is that he does. He says, let's go there and make a portion of wine.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 34:39

Maybe it'll be an international.

Nunzio Castaldo: 34:40

That's the danger that I always, you know, have in front of me every time I speak about a wine that he doesn't know.

S. Simon Jacob: 34:47

Tell me a little bit about it, though. What's so special about it?

Nunzio Castaldo: 34:49

What varietals and we talk about Cabernet, cabernet Savignon, a little bit of Cabernet Franc as well. You know they plant the more international varietals.

S. Simon Jacob: 35:00

Okay.

Nunzio Castaldo: 35:01

And you know they have been, I would say, trained not only in the winery but also in the viticulture, by French culture rather than, you know, than their own.

S. Simon Jacob: 35:18

But it's a Bordeaux blend, a real Bordeaux blend.

Nunzio Castaldo: 35:23

But let's talk another time about that. Okay, you know, let's talk about Italy because, you know, it's something that I don't know if I will have an opportunity to have you again, so I so I was thinking of regions of Italy when I asked you about regions.

S. Simon Jacob: 35:41

So what's an interesting region in Italy where you feel it's just incredibly special?

Nunzio Castaldo: 35:49

So I'll start to say that, when you want to learn about Italian minds which is the most difficult thing to do, because Italy has this kind of a values that I always mention to any seminar or these things that I'm invited to and one thing is that is very, very, very unique is what we call in Italian Biodiversipa Diversity, which means now that you have more than 650 official varietals in Italy which no other part of the world has. I was reading some very, I would say, doubts information that more than 60% of the wines that have been produced in France, they're made by 10 varietals and even higher. When you come to the United States, for example, which I believe that there was an average of eight varietals, when you go to Chile, it's even more, and when you go to Argentina, it's even more, when we talk about 80% is Malvá. When you go to Italy, it's a Jurassic Park for when you come to the varietals, and not only with wines, but also with food, because you can have the same dish prepared in 50 variations, the same dish with the same ingredients, but different varietals. We talk about onions, onions, which is the simple food. We have almost like a 35 type of onions in Italy, so that is something that is a treasure, but it's also very difficult to understand and the acumen that the gentleman that is in between us, he understood right away that and that's why for me, even though it comes from a different culture, when it becomes wines, for me it's easier to talk to him about varietals, because he understands, because he classified already geographically speaking, historical speaking and also making speaking.

Nunzio Castaldo: 38:37

And that is something that I had to say, because learning about Italian wines is not an easy thing to do. And somebody comes to me and says, listen, I love Italian wines, but what I should do to learn? And he says, listen, can you invest the $50? I say, yeah, I can Do. You have a friend that can invest another $50? Yes, do you have another friend that can invest another $50? Yes. Can you make a full friend that can invest $200? Yes, okay, great. So go to a store and buy a case of every different bottles, 12 bottles. You go home with these four friends. You can have a pizza, you can have a hamburger, you can have a whatever you like Don't worry, cheese, whatever. You cover the each bottle with a brown bag and you start to pour and you need to understand what is that the difference between one to each other? It doesn't matter if it's like a $10 or $50 a bottle, because diversity is a kind of like you know, really I work strength in certain ways.

Nunzio Castaldo: 39:49

So why is that? Because with that, you know it's also valid. Most of the time, you buy a wine that is a $20 or even $15 and you drink for, like, a wine that is costing from another region, another part of the world. That is a $40 or even $50 value. It's incredible, incredible high. You know, when we talk about Pinot Grigio, for example, which is the simple thing that you know that we're going to, 95% of the production in Italy over Pinot Grigio is so is consumed outside Italy. Yeah, yeah, can you believe that?

S. Simon Jacob: 40:31

Wow.

Nunzio Castaldo: 40:34

It's a commodity that has an expectable quality that is in infinity. You can buy something at $5 in the store to buy something that is $250 in the store.

S. Simon Jacob: 40:46

It's amazing to me.

Nunzio Castaldo: 40:48

All that you know, you have to learn it and it's not easy. It's not easy to learn, it's not easy to understand where this place is against the other place, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I say that because it's important to map out these kind of challenges before you dive in. And if you want to really be serious about Italian wines, you have to start from Piedmont, you have to start from Malangue, you have to start learning the diversity of Nebbiolo, of Barbera, of Arneis, of Dolcetto and so on. And that is the first thing that you have to do. It's like learning math. You know, at the beginning of five years old, you know with additions. When you learn that, then you move. You know to Tuscany. When you move to Tuscany, then you move to Veneto and so on. So you have to take a really rigid region, sometimes section by section, the Italian peninsula. I like to start with the north, central and south. And that is the first time you know, the first time you know the time you church For me.

Nunzio Castaldo: 42:03

You know, I'm not a gambler. I don't never gamble in my life and it doesn't give me anything. But if I were to gamble on the horse tracking, you know I would never put my money on the horse. I would put the money on the joker. You know, the one that drives the horse, and that's why I did. You know, at the beginning of my career. I always follow the winemaker rather than the vineyards, the locations and so on, my network. I spend like at least an hour a day to go around my connection in Italy with the winemakers that now they are my age, now they are new ones that come again, and it says why is that? Why is you know, what is that? You find that, like you know, with the climate, especially now with the climate change, you know I have to be in connection with these winemakers and that's why I don't have, for now, a preferred region. I do have, for now, you know, something that is developing because, in my humble opinion, when a winemaker becomes a trend, it's already late. You know it's a trend because everybody knows that it's a trend but it's not undiscovered.

Nunzio Castaldo: 43:27

So I like when I go in Italy and I move on from or move off from my program or my planning, and I go and take my car, you know, to a place that I was never before, because I want to learn about the variety that nobody knows, I want to learn about the soil that is, you know, volcanic, that is meeting with the granitic soil, and what is developing on that. I want to learn about, you know that, the gentleman that has only three acres of land with an acre and a half of an old vines. What is he doing there? You know? I want to learn how he treats you know, the wood aging, you know, if so. So those are the things that you know, I would say, claim my interest.

Nunzio Castaldo: 44:21

I like the ethanol wines in Sicily. Not now that everybody knows. I started to go to Sicily on the Mount Etna when it is still active as a volcano, 25, 30 years ago, you know, and that's when I discovered, like, the potential of the land. So that's where I did. But if I have to put myself on the plane and I want one place to go and match my thirst of wine with the food, because they always have to go together for now will be Sicily, even though my love is with the Piedmont.

S. Simon Jacob: 45:05

So let me ask you a question, because you really kind of blended two things together, at least two things that people normally separate, but you really brought them together. I found that they're winemakers who focus on the process and winemakers who focus on the vineyard, and there are some winemakers who focus on both. And you know, ideally you can't make good wine without great grapes, but very often winemakers leave that to the growers.

S. Simon Jacob: 45:42

But, agronomists, right, right, right, and agronomists is the better answer than growers, because agronomists is the people who are actually really direct how everything goes. Is that the same in Italy, or do you find that the winemakers have to be amazing agronomists as well?

Nunzio Castaldo: 46:09

We have an amazing agronomist. Okay, you know, if you want to build a beautiful home, you need an architect and you need an engineer. Yeah, the architect, it doesn't know the you know the weight that the floor over that particular home has to hold, you know. But he knows how to design inside and that's what this bland, it's important.

Nunzio Castaldo: 46:31

I, I import the wine that that is a, from Bulgaria, a section of of the Northeast part, a northwest part of the Oscar, and this family that owns these vineyards. They're very special and the father his name is a, achille Shinza For me is the one the most important agronomist in the world. I, I have several books that you know that I read all the time and Hopes I mean new frontiers for me all the time. He is not the winemaker and he knows, but he's a great agronomist and his job is to find the combination of the varietal in their particularly vineyards and bring their fruit healthy To the handover. The one maker which, by the way, is his son, okay, it's like a huge family efforts. So what I'm saying here here is, yes, you can find somebody that you know, that knows and recognize the challenges in the vineyards, but the the truth, the matter, is that you know that you should define the two, the two roles.

Nunzio Castaldo: 47:48

Okay, got it that that is important unless you have, like you know, five actors or vineyards, and you know, and that vineyards is in the family for the past, the three generations, and you know everybody, everything about this yeah but if you start to have like the 20, 30, 50 and be and beyond Actors, you know you need the.

Nunzio Castaldo: 48:11

The fine rose got it. So that's that's what it is. Look assignment. I think that you know that, I Believe that and I go back on the kosher side now. I believe it at the word Ralph started it's not just another business. I think that what he started is a movement, a movement of people, in that in your community has been exposed, and for the first time, not only for the, the kosher wine that you know that's part of your daily routine if you drink but exposed to the quality of of the wines.

Nunzio Castaldo: 48:54

I quite often meet people that they are in the fashion industry, that you know that they are Jewish people, okay, and, and you know the made in Italy for them is like, you know, like a mantra. You know, obviously, textiles and you know shirts and whatever, and I am amazed at how they really understood. You know how, really, the quality and the, the concept of the Italian manufacturers. You know they cannot drink. You know our wines. They cannot eat our food but they absorb.

Nunzio Castaldo: 49:30

You know, through Certain functions that we have in Italy. You know hotels. You know vacation site art, textile which can be used from both cultures, you know, without restrictions, and I, I do believe that you know that Can be done also with the kosher wines made with a quality grapes, quality production, with a quality, you know project behind. And that's why I believe that Ralph, you know, with his vision and with his determination, start that and until that Light and that little, you know fire, that I, that I discovered through a phone call, most ten years ago, most Until that is present, he will have always my back.

S. Simon Jacob: 50:24

Hey, you know, I I I want to thank you Because I've taken up a lot of your time, but I want to thank you, and I also especially forgiving us some incredible insights into what makes Italy so special and what makes Italian wines so special. Your description of the, of the details, and it's not just about the varietals, it's about the varietals and how they interact with the regions, and the diversity of everything. I never thought about it that way. You opened my mind and and and I thank you. I really thank you for that.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 51:07

Thank you, I have. I want to end off on something. Please end off on Few few more minutes, but you know, take your time.

S. Simon Jacob: 51:17

I don't want to take your time.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 51:18

Because I feel like the listener. We should give them a little direction and let nuns you do it. I don't want to bias his opinion. You know, you know my entire portfolio north central Italy, tuscany, campania. You know Piedmont. They even have a Marona being developed by a Fumonelli, by the way, that would be also another interesting interview, because that's totally different.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 51:39

Nuns, you met him, I'm under Fumonelli, 28 generations, speak English very well. Would be great for a podcast as well. But, nuns, you know our entire portfolio. Let's say you were the professional speaker on behalf of Eminem. Well, and you know, somebody calls up Simon and said Simon, I want, I love the me, I love the podcast, I want to try one of the ones. So what would you recommend from all the different regions? Let's say, maybe somebody to start and somebody, let's say, who has a little experience we're not talking about the super experience like Simon or myself, but let's say some, an entry level guy comes in and says Simon, what did nuns, you say for an entry level guy to try to get into the wine from my portfolio, let's assume. And let's say, somebody who wants to go a little further, what, which wines would you recommend?

Nunzio Castaldo: 52:31

as the entry level for red, I mean for white, there will be the Arnais from Pascale and From from red, I would say still now the Montevolciano from Valeria. I like that kind of a Vibrancy, I like that kind of a spice that you know. That is the same on the red I'm, and I'm a little bit biased because I Suggest the wines that you know that they are very, very, very close to the conventional wines. Okay, which most of your book is like that, that's what I like you know.

Nunzio Castaldo: 53:07

So, as entry level, I like those two because I believe that they're very, I Would say, fedele, you know, like, not true, not true to the kosher I mean the dog kosher side as as the upper one, I like the ones that you know that, alessandro, she lives making you know for you, I think that you know if the guys you know he's doing a great job.

S. Simon Jacob: 53:35

Which ones are those.

Nunzio Castaldo: 53:39

Yeah, I believe that you know that is the pinnacle of that conjunction, you know, between your team in Italy, you as a vision, and Alessandro that understood. You know after Few discussion that I had also with them, but he's a very intelligent guy so it didn't need me, but he understood what it was. Your final points the destination on the wine, and I believe that you know that he surpassed all my expectations. So I say that you know that also the brunello from Tassi, I mean. I'm very, very, very, very, very Impressive.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 54:19

I mean, I would have saved that I would have saved that for the wine geeks like guys.

Nunzio Castaldo: 54:25

I mean yeah.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 54:26

I just rate it. It's the highest rated kosher wine ever given by Parker. Is is ours yeah.

Nunzio Castaldo: 54:31

I mean, you know I was, listen, I Was. That's the first story, but you know anyway, I think that you know that was was. You know really, you know I test the money, that quality is no compromise with the function of intervening with the different heads and that's what you have to believe and bring it on.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 54:53

So some, let me, just let me. You know, you people don't realize that, noons, you just gave you literally a thousand page book, on, on, on what we've done. I mean he says it in in code word.

Nunzio Castaldo: 55:08

So what do you do? No you, you, you you.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 55:12

I don't know how much.

Nunzio Castaldo: 55:15

Actually, I mean, I mean beside the division that and listen, we are not here to, you know, to violin each other. Yeah, we're here to make sure that whoever Read or sees your podcast or re, I mean Understands you know, through your voice and through your platform, which notes you know it's, it's impressive what you do. They have to understand that. You know there is a it is not a business model here. That's why I said, yeah, mission, that is a greater than anything else.

Nunzio Castaldo: 55:51

Look what the Ralph has behind how many books I've been in his house. I mean, it's a temple of studying. Okay, this gentleman, you know, Only has to study for his own religion purposes, which I respect very much, no only for his professional purposes, but he has time to dedicate it to this. A great crusade, because drinking quality wines in these are very conservative Communities, which I learned more through him and through this experience of my life. It's not the easiest thing to do and I believe that you know that. I told him, I tell him all the time he has to take a little bit more ownership of that. You know, practice, leave others to do the mechanical stuff and him he has to be living more Involved. I know endless times. You know that, you know that he spends, you know you know money, energy and time away from his family to educate people, and that is the most beautiful thing.

S. Simon Jacob: 57:00

Yeah, but he's also a hands-on person so he's a slightly obsessive, compulsive, so I know.

Nunzio Castaldo: 57:09

I know, I know I can't, yes, but in the in the summery.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 57:18

There, you know I mean, we have great wines. Simon, you know you're talking about a beautiful white entry level. You know entry level for our price market. You know New Jersey price market and ours are totally different because of the cost of the rabbinical supervision. But a Pascaya Arnaz can be matched up against anybody's sincere in the kosher sincere market and I have two sincere. I think it's just a beautiful north northwest region of you know Piedmont up north and it's an excellent. We have a mebushal and non mebushal right. So for the purists and the non purists, but that's a that's, that's, that's a great. And what he spoke about Valerial is a Montipusiano de Abruzzo which is authentic. It's an authentic entry level. You're not going to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars like even what we like, our Brunello, but it's a, it's a tremendous amount of value in that money is San Esaño, new ripening vineyard entry level, beautiful bottle, short time in Oak, I think you have a herky wine.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 58:24

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 58:25

Yeah, and it's those are. Those are great recommendations for the people who are going into the second chapter. You know Rocco de Franca, by the way, Simon, that's an excellent other idea. I said Armando Fumonelli, but not to take away from Alessandro, July is the King Tuskees, the King of Tusking at this point, I mean the Italian media writes it and as he's the one of the one of the top Tuscan wine makers, also a lot of history and guess what? With Nuno's help, we made some of the top, as that is put, just so you understand, Zach is put. Zach is from California, Very famous, but so did this Senicolo, which is the top Castellare San Giovese based wine. It has to be labeled IGT because it doesn't stick to the norm values.

Nunzio Castaldo: 59:16

Yeah, but so did.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 59:17

San Jovito. San Jovito, which is the mother and the father clone. I think we mentioned this one. It got number one wine the year and the same year we made it 2019 was the first year we made it. We made that kosher.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 59:30

Now he talked about Rocco de Franca. The number one selling super Tuscan was the sugar. That was ours, we making the higher level, and we made buffonero, all due to Nuno's help. These are talking about super Tuscans. There's buffonero, which will be released soon I'm not sure when, but it's an Italian Merlot aged. The whole run, simon, is 5000 bottles, entire production, and we made the 300 for the first year, because that's all he would let me, and now that we got used to each other, 600.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:00:02

Now this is a great guide, also to get on your podcast, because he just speaks English very well. By the way, once again, nuno's, your introduce me to him, which is why he gets a lot of them. But, like he said, for the guys who are coming into the second level, super Tuscan is the way to go. Chianti is the way to go because it's you know, you need to be able to go anywhere. You go the world and they're going to ask you about Italian wine. You got to know Chianti. You need to know the Chianti region. You don't need to know what it tastes like, you have to know why it tastes different than um. And then a French Bordeaux. I'm a crazy Franco file Me. You've drank, you know, 2000 Leoville.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:00:35

We've checked top comments in the new era. We've drank two that Malartic to five, and these aren't even my wines, right, I don't want them. But we've made Smith, lafitte, lafite from Rocher, I mean, and these are different profile. It doesn't sit to the same norm. It doesn't mean that. You know the problem with, I think, in our people and I think Nuno's just just appreciating this, and Simon, you've spoken to thousands of wine makers. The problem, which is what maybe is our palate was driven to a certain type over all. Very heavy wine, 60% volume, uh, alcohol volume. You know that's how a wine was pushed us in and I think it's now time to separate, you know, separate the boys from the men, so to speak Um, that is, we need to see what elegance is. We need to know what cherry and balsamic, which you find in San Giovese based ones, chianti, are different than the big blackberry jammy. You know, heavy wines, not saying they're not good from saying they're different, very different.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:01:38

Yes.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:01:38

And I'll tell you this. You asked me, simon, what's the biggest thing I find, and I'll tell you, nuno, there's something we've touched on. I give them a Brunello, blindly. You know my Brunello reserve. I got almost 100 points by Parker, um, the only reason I didn't mention it was because it was not blind. Our original 2016 French Tassi wine was blind tasting. With the non kosher, got 96 points, which is the highest Parker ever gave to any kosher wine.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:02:07

Right, you give them a Brunello. It's sexy, it's sultry, it's seductive. It's not big, bold, jammy, it's. It's. You know, it's the maestro in the conducting. It's not, it's a violin, it's not the drums, and so people don't appreciate what that nuance in that wine is.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:02:25

You want an elegant wine? Yeah, you're not. Maybe you won't eat it with, you know, a braced short ribs. You need something a little bit more gentler on when you pair it. But a Brunello, they commend the highest respect. Lvmh just bought beyond those Santi, because it's a huge one. Those are the same guys who make Chateau de Iquim, which is a turn. Yeah, so you know, it's about education, it's about explaining to them it's not the same wine, um, and a Brunello commends the highest, the highest dollars in the kosher and non kosher market and if, if we don't educate them on it, they'll just think that this is that. This is just water red water, it's one of the casinos. But I think that it's an education and it's a process and I will tell you Simon Nunzi, you're trying to leave us and you don't need me anymore. Every time he says you don't need him, I doubled out on my contract.

Nunzio Castaldo: 1:03:21

I mean, I'm right, I'll be always here, but you don't need you know me, because you, you know, you reach the level. Now you know what I mean.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:03:29

So it's a great work in relation. It's a great work in relationship Now we're we're great friends. I give it, you know, um, every time I have Italian and Italian, um linguistic problems. Some of these wine makers are really rustic. We're making a barbaresco for a gentleman who doesn't even know how to say hello in English.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:03:50

I need Nunzi to travel to translate everything, but this is the type of wines we want to, we want to bring to the market. We want to bring the Barolos, we want to bring the Barbarescos which are coming. They just, you know, they need time to age but in terms of what you can find now in the market, is what he's saying you get a Falanguina from Campania. It'll match up against any white wine of anything you have.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:04:10

And, by the way, you know how much Burgundy I love, Chardonnay's, I mean, we made a Chardonnay from Kaskia because it's on the same altitude as Burgundy and he was trained there. So that's why I was, I was, that's why I made it Um, but you know the things open up and I think that, uh, you know, I think it's a great working relationship and there's great options now in the Italian, the Kosher market, Um, and that that's only half of my portfolio. I have a whole French portfolio, but I think the excitement for me is um, and it's really thanks to Nunzi is how to how to how to develop this market.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:04:44

I love it, I totally love it, and I'd love your um. I love your uh pink uh water.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:04:54

Um, no, no no, no, no, no I.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:04:57

I, I know, I know exactly what you're talking about, because some people need their mouth totally filled with something and and these are so elegant and they're so special, and the textures and the and the nuances of tastes are just spectacular. I just absolutely love it.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:05:17

And and and Nunzi mentioned a lot. You know Israel. Israel is Mediterranean basin I mean climate of Israel and the climate of Italy is the same, the people are the same, the culture is the same and, um again, I can't thank Nunzi enough for the, for all the help, but look, it pays back. Look, he sees what we're doing. He donates to our causes. I think that for that reason alone, we should continue to drink Italian wine, even in this. No, I mean, people like to. Oh, we should only drink.

Nunzio Castaldo: 1:05:47

Israel I think.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:05:49

I think now is the time that everybody has to stand together. You know there was another time in history that this happened. I'm not talking about in Corona. In Corona the Israelis went to know. You know it was the highest death rate in Corona, simon, you should know, is in Northern Italy right. Medical care is terrible. It's a very old fashioned. There's a lot of old people, older generation is living in the north of Italy You're talking about, in the Veneto area and in these areas up north.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:06:18

Yeah, and, and Israelis were the first to go from Israel to Northern Italy. Why? Because you have a lot of alumni who were trained in Italian place that came back and and and and and came back and help these hospitals up north during COVID. I mean a lot of people from Israeli doctors trained there went back and up. I mean our countries are intertwined and I think that this project is just another chance of intertwining. And you mentioned your first. You know you said the world goes round. I've recently had conversations with Falesco, you know, with Dominga. There is the Jubilee coming up right in a year or so and we are very excited to start to see if we can develop a kosher one for that, for that that time period.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:07:04

You know.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:07:04

The fact that they came to us to talk to us about that really shows you the connection between Italy and Israel is the Jewish people and the Jewish, Jewish Jewish people and Italian people together as a whole, and it was very exciting and I hope that yeah, it's a great, great feeling.

Nunzio Castaldo: 1:07:27

You know that you have always my first word, so I'm here. To whatever I can you know, to, to, to any cause, I'm here.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:07:37

Beautiful. I love it, thank you, thank you very, very much.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:07:42

Both of you.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:07:44

You're invited, you're invited, I'm not inviting you. This is not. This isn't just lip service. I have a room. I'll even get the pillows ready, ready and and.

Dr. Ralph Medeb: 1:07:55

I would love to have some. I have some.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:08:00

I have some very interesting wines, not only Italian, but I do have some of the Italian wines in my cellar as well, and I would love to to treat you and your wife Please to come Okay. All right. So thank you very much for being on the kosher terroir and and I really appreciate it. I appreciate the time.

Nunzio Castaldo: 1:08:23

Thank you very much for allowing me to talk and I couldn't have a better experience for the first time with you and Dr Madab and I just opened a Bernardo di Montalcino 1988, you know, this morning. So she's breathing because we have a Sunday in the middle, so nice time to to see for it, you know.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:08:47

Wow Okay.

Nunzio Castaldo: 1:08:48

Well, thank you so much.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:08:49

Thank you guys.

Nunzio Castaldo: 1:08:50

You know I love you and Simon, thank you, you know, and you are now having another, another good friend in Jerusalem.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:08:57

Yes, sir, pleasure, thank you. Thank you Take care.

S. Simon Jacob: 1:09:00

Bye guys Be well. This is Simon Jacob, again your host of today's episode of the kosher terroir. I have a personal request. No matter where you are or where you live, please take a moment to pray for our soldier's safety and the safe and rapid return of our hostages. I hope you have enjoyed this episode of the kosher terroir. It was exciting and informative for me as well. Please subscribe via your podcast provider to be informed of our new episodes as they are released. If you're new to the kosher terroir, please check out our many past episodes. Again, thank you for listening to the kosher terroir.